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Turkey new heavy chopper T-929

Huffal

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I feel like these will come too late…PA was supposed to get New Helis by 2019 and it’s frustrated with the delays in the T-129, they wouldn’t want to wait till 2024 for this to get ready, before that even the local T-129 engine will be ready. However there is a chance for both medium and light attack helicopters. So maybe we might still see PA buying it. Would make sense with the engine too.
A combination of T129 and t929 would be deadly for both terrorists and conventional militaries.
 

iLION12345_1

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A combination of T129 and t929 would be deadly for both terrorists and conventional militaries.
Definitely, but I doubt Turkey will be able to deliver T-129 in time, I think Z-10ME + T929 is more realistic at the current stage, it depends on how much longer PA is willing to wait for T-129. They’ve waited a lot already, the Turkish engine won’t be ready for delivery till 2022-23, if PA is willing to wait 2 years more then maybe T-129 is still a possibility.
 

Huffal

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Definitely, but I doubt Turkey will be able to deliver T-129 in time, I think Z-10ME + T929 is more realistic at the current stage, it depends on how much longer PA is willing to wait for T-129. They’ve waited a lot already, the Turkish engine won’t be ready for delivery till 2022-23, if PA is willing to wait 2 years more then maybe T-129 is still a possibility.
Perhaps a Ukrainian engine can be used in the T129?
 

iLION12345_1

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Perhaps a Ukrainian engine can be used in the T129?
Not sure if there is any engine to fit the criteria, plus there seems to be no intent of doing that so far since the sales for those helicopters have been cleared to all countries except Pakistan (Since we refused to give the US bases I assume). Plus Turkey would rather Pakistan waited another couple of years to get their own engine ready. Wether PA will actually agree is another story. PAA is not at full strength at the moment…some of the cobras have been retired. The rest cannot wait much longer.
 

Huffal

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Not sure if there is any engine to fit the criteria, plus there seems to be no intent of doing that so far since the sales for those helicopters have been cleared to all countries except Pakistan (Since we refused to give the US bases I assume). Plus Turkey would rather Pakistan waited another couple of years to get their own engine ready. Wether PA will actually agree is another story. PAA is not at full strength at the moment…some of the cobras have been retired. The rest cannot wait much longer.
In that case then, looking at the current political relations between Pakistan and the US I don't see those T129 being cleared...


Z10me will have to fulfil the role of the T129. At least until the t929 becomes available for mass production/export.

Also what about the mil mi35m? I heard we are getting more of those.
 

iLION12345_1

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In that case then, looking at the current political relations between Pakistan and the US I don't see those T129 being cleared...


Z10me will have to fulfil the role of the T129. At least until the t929 becomes available for mass production/export.

Also what about the mil mi35m? I heard we are getting more of those.
Z-10ME is actually better performance wise than T-129 in a few metrics, especially if we can get a MMW with it, however just for the diversification and logistical value T-129B might have been better. PAA can do light, medium and heavy gunships in the form of H125M, Z10ME/T-129 and T929 + Mi-35M for special purposes, speaking of which, I think we are getting a few more, however they are special purpose helicopters, not the best gunships and not the best attack helicopters, but a good mix of both. PA likely only needs a few of them for SF activities and Air support and wants to stick to dedicated gunships for the rest, hence the limited orders.
 

FuturePAF

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Splitting the force between the Z-10ME to fill in for the T-129 and getting the T-929 for the heavier role will allow the PAA to have access to larger variety of weapons and help speed up interoperability between the PA and the PLA. This should also be considered. It’s not just technical considerations but geo-strategic ones that should be kept in mind. In the event of hostilites, if the PAA is already operating the Z-10ME, it can be replaced in the event of loss in battle, by the Chinese from their stocks if need be (and if some kind of understanding can be reached).
 

iLION12345_1

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Splitting the force between the Z-10ME to fill in for the T-129 and getting the T-929 for the heavier role will allow the PAA to have access to larger variety of weapons and help speed up interoperability between the PA and the PLA. This should also be considered. It’s not just technical considerations but geo-strategic ones that should be kept in mind. In the event of hostilites, if the PAA is already operating the Z-10ME, it can be replaced in the event of loss in battle, by the Chinese from their stocks if need be (and if some kind of understanding can be reached).
Double edged sword…the positives you mentioned are overshadowed by the highly increased operating and logistical costs if operating two completely different platforms using completely different weapon systems. T-129 and T929 would have Been much more ideal, however we need to make do with what we can get, Z-10ME is a very good helicopter nonetheless.
 

Huffal

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Z-10ME is actually better performance wise than T-129 in a few metrics, especially if we can get a MMW with it, however just for the diversification and logistical value T-129B might have been better. PAA can do light, medium and heavy gunships in the form of H125M, Z10ME/T-129 and T929 + Mi-35M for special purposes, speaking of which, I think we are getting a few more, however they are special purpose helicopters, not the best gunships and not the best attack helicopters, but a good mix of both. PA likely only needs a few of them for SF activities and Air support and wants to stick to dedicated gunships for the rest, hence the limited orders.
Understandable.

Well I guess all we can do is wait for what comes next. Will the US give us our damn T129 and Ah1z even (probably not) or will we switch to China for an alternative.
 

mdmm

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T-129 chapter is closed. Pakistan did not signed contract for Z-10ME with China.
T-929 would be a big gift for Pakistan if a contract is signed with Turkey in place of T-129 .
Will Turkey be able to sign and deliver T929 in place of T-129 ??
Any news ?
 

iLION12345_1

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T-129 chapter is closed. Pakistan did not signed contract for Z-10ME with China.
T-929 would be a big gift for Pakistan if a contract is signed with Turkey in place of T-129 .
Will Turkey be able to sign and deliver T929 in place of T-129 ??
Any news ?
Z-10ME or another system is coming. Still a slim chance for T-129 if PA decides to wait, but unlikely. T-929 is too far off at the moment to be considered, PA will not wait for it.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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Splitting the force between the Z-10ME to fill in for the T-129 and getting the T-929 for the heavier role will allow the PAA to have access to larger variety of weapons and help speed up interoperability between the PA and the PLA. This should also be considered. It’s not just technical considerations but geo-strategic ones that should be kept in mind. In the event of hostilites, if the PAA is already operating the Z-10ME, it can be replaced in the event of loss in battle, by the Chinese from their stocks if need be (and if some kind of understanding can be reached).
This could be the direction now.

The PAA had always planned on a heavy and light split (AH-1Z and T129). So, if the PAA is acquiring the Z-10ME, then that would likely carry the "light" and the PAA can consider the T929 for the "heavy." But bear in mind, China is rumoured to have a 10-ton attack helicopter in development too.
 

Hakikat ve Hikmet

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This could be the direction now.

The PAA had always planned on a heavy and light split (AH-1Z and T129). So, if the PAA is acquiring the Z-10ME, then that would likely carry the "light" and the PAA can consider the T929 for the "heavy." But bear in mind, China is rumoured to have a 10-ton attack helicopter in development too.
A pattern in Pak acquisitions is emerging: Chinese + Turkish systems. Both are out of India's sphere of influence....

The Chinese systems are like more off-the-shelf and less customization, and fast delivery....

The Turkish systems are like less off-the-shelf and more customization, and slow delivery. TOT, R&D, local production, being a part of the supply chain etc. are also included....
 
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War Historian

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Sir image shown in other posts , that is T-629 , weight class 6 Ton.
And this image is for under development 10-Ton helicopter T-929 (Atak-2).
You are referring this as the T-629 ... above the same image is labelled T-929, so what is correct?
ATAK2_06-768x512.jpeg
ATAK2_07-768x512.jpeg
 

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Scorpiooo

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This could be the direction now.

The PAA had always planned on a heavy and light split (AH-1Z and T129). So, if the PAA is acquiring the Z-10ME, then that would likely carry the "light" and the PAA can consider the T929 for the "heavy." But bear in mind, China is rumoured to have a 10-ton attack helicopter in development too.
Z10ME is on card for PAA , lets see when thay make it public.
But PAA has open credit line of 1.5 billion from turkey for T129, which can be converted to T929 (as T129 case is almost dead)

PAA will try to keep milti country vendors for helicopters
 
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