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TTP Response to Amnesty By Shah Mehmood Qureshi

araz

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You can drive it but you will be slower than everyone, might get in the way of others, you could get into an accident..

Look I'm just an observer here who has lived in Pakistan and abroad and travelled. I don't really have a bias so I am giving you an objective view on a political, NOT a religious point of view.

I don't want to discuss the spiritual aspects because that's a totally different topic and I am not here to offend. I am focussing specifically on the sharia being fit for purpose as a political and governance model. I mean this in no disrespect, even communism led by an empire failed to implement, it lost to democratic capitalism.

Sure if you want to apply the sharia on a personal level go for it but to apply it as a system of governance you are just setting yourself up to lose, over what? Ego?

As Pakistan evolves you are going to see a generation emerging who think very differently, you need to be prepared for that and prepare the country to flexible enough for this. Jinnah knew what we was doing, just stick to his game plan.
You have a uk flag and you do not know the value of an antique? A 1920s car would never be driven to work but taken out on a sunny day on the London to Brighton race.
Istill do not agree with you as I do not agree with anyone who says Sharia cannot be applied today. The reason it is espoused is because of the ignorance of the muslims and apologists who without any understanding of the Quran or the life of RasoolAllah SAW and its meaning for the believers think we are reverting to an archaic system. And no Sharia is not for personal application but a set of rules to govern muslims in all aspects of their lives. I understand your ppont of view and understand there is no discussion here as your ways are set as are mine. Respect and agree to disagree.
Regards
A
Why would you offer the same people who martyred our children in a school an amnesty. Demented decision by the government!
My brother the people do not understand that Munafiqat needs to be brought out into the open only by being honest and knowledgeable. Lack of knowledge is precisely the reason we are where we are today. When you do not know your deen yourself you hand it over to the mullah and put him in a position of commanding you in matters of the deen which are way beyond his understanding and knowledge then you end up in a mess. You cannot see the misguidance till you yourself know your deen.
A
 

SIPRA

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You have a uk flag and you do not know the value of an antique? A 1920s car would never be driven to work but taken out on a sunny day on the London to Brighton race.
Istill do not agree with you as I do not agree with anyone who says Sharia cannot be applied today. The reason it is espoused is because of the ignorance of the muslims and apologists who without any understanding of the Quran or the life of RasoolAllah SAW and its meaning for the believers think we are reverting to an archaic system. And no Sharia is not for personal application but a set of rules to govern muslims in all aspects of their lives. I understand your ppont of view and understand there is no discussion here as your ways are set as are mine. Respect and agree to disagree.
Regards
A
"Emaan mujhay rokay hae, tau kheenchay hae mujhay kufr
Kaaba mairay peechay hae, kaleesa mairay aagay"
(Ghalib)
 

doorstar

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typo - 85 billion - definitely way more. But i am more interested in the MI6 camouflaged NDS poodles.
even more ludicrous now, you are repeating (just like the rest of the sef-proclaimed insider experts on social media) what the former president Dotard Trump said on Aug 30
:disagree:
he rounded up the figure of 83 billion that the US spent on training equipping Afghan forces (including paying salaries) spanning over 20 years.

No, the Taliban did not get $85 billion worth of U.S. weapons
 

messiach

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u did not like my comment on MI6 camouflaged NDS poodles. Too bad.

even more ludicrous now, you are repeating (just like the rest of the sef-proclaimed insider experts on social media) what the former president Dotard Trump said on Aug 30
:disagree:
he rounded up the figure of 83 billion that the US spent on training equipping Afghan forces (including paying salaries) spanning over 20 years.

No, the Taliban did not get $85 billion worth of U.S. weapons
 

Moon

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This is the whole problem with this debate. There are no variants of the Sharia. Look Islam is composed of the Quran and the Ahadeeth of our Rasool Allah SAW. Shareeah is the implementation of laws in accordance with these 2 guiding principles. In order to extract Fiqh(islamic Juresprudence) you need to take guidence from these two sources. In order to not make mistakes the Fuqaha extract rulings only from the Saheeh Ahadeeth and leave out the wdaker ones. Where there are doubts we derive a ruling based on the previous fuqaha's rulings or Ijtehad guided by the Quran and Sunnah. The state reserves the right to formulate and implement the Shareeah in order to provide ease to its citizens as long as it falls within the 2 guiding principles. The imams were nothing more than fuqaha of the times. There are not 4 imams of fiqh but about 124 schools of fiqh and therefore ( netter described as Madahib). The only reazon we know of the 4 imams is because they had large schools and therefore lots of students.
In order to implement Shariah one needs to have people of knowledge sitt8ng down and formulating rules which will be implemented by the state.
When the state is composed of people like Nawaz Musharraf and Zardari how do you implement Shariah. As the state canmot implement its writ with reasoning you have all sorts of deviants coming up and enforcing the wrong kind of rulings. The state remains clueless as the rules are bereft of any knowledge and so the state we are in occurs.
A
I'm well aware there are no variants to Sharia, but tell me why is the Sharia that is (was) practiced in Saudi Arabia different from that in Afghanistan (during the first Taliban rule), why was it different from the one applied in Swat by TTP? Or the one in Iran. Infact, yesterday Daesh issued a warning to IEA calling their interpretation of Sharia un-Islamic.
The thing is, tomorrow we'll have Sharia in this country and some nutcasees will call it an incorrect interpretation or not to their liking and start blowing themselves up.

The only way we can have Sharia is through making a system/Constitution that the majority of the people accept. And for that it needs to be something people accept wholeheartedly, rather than be forced upon them. That means it needs good publicity, and right now Sharia is associated with TTP, not with the Islamic Golden Age.
 

CatSultan

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"Negotiating from a position of strength is a myth, if you don't offer something, the other party will not even talk to you" - Gen. Assad Durrani
 

araz

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I'm well aware there are no variants to Sharia, but tell me why is the Sharia that is (was) practiced in Saudi Arabia different from that in Afghanistan (during the first Taliban rule), why was it different from the one applied in Swat by TTP? Or the one in Iran. Infact, yesterday Daesh issued a warning to IEA calling their interpretation of Sharia un-Islamic.
The thing is, tomorrow we'll have Sharia in this country and some nutcasees will call it an incorrect interpretation or not to their liking and start blowing themselves up.

The only way we can have Sharia is through making a system/Constitution that the majority of the people accept. And for that it needs to be something people accept wholeheartedly, rather than be forced upon them. That means it needs good publicity, and right now Sharia is associated with TTP, not with the Islamic Golden Age.
In Pakistan's context we need to have a referendum on what the public actually want. Do they want Sharia or do they want a secular syatem. Result will guide you as to what the joe public actually wants. No system can be implemented without the people wanting it.
The reason for the difference in application of Sharia is the induction of local laws into the fray of things. For instance in Sindh you marry the girl to a Quran and it is a formal nikah conducted by a mullah. Where will you find this in Islam, Similarly the Pashtun says we like Islam but when it comes to Pashtunwali we will not go against it.
Saudi interpretation suits the Saudi monarchy and there are laws which suit their society. For instance women did not havecthe right to drive or vote. We know from early Islam that our Mother Ayesha Siddiqa was a political activist and various Sahabiyat fought in wars.
The basoc rule of fiqh is "la darara wa la dirar". Make ease for the people not hardships. This implies that one can chose a softer interpretation of a rulingbased on the teachings of the 124 a'imma or even some modern fuqaha provided the basic edicts of Quran and Sunnah are not violated. I wont twpk about Iran but we accept thag the teaching of imam jaffer AsSadiq Rehmatullah elaihe provided authenticated are acceptable to all muslim of Ahle sunnah wal jamaat. However the problem remains in that he possibly has not written any book which has reached us which is authentic.
The only way this will work is if people making the rules explain to the public what is the basis of a ruling openly and honestly. Differences have arisen in the past as well . One famous difference was between Uthman ibn Affan RA and Abu zar al Ghifari RA. In spite of the edict of our Hadi SAW " in my ummah if you want to see a man with the qualities of Easa AS then look at Abu Zar" when the differences between Uthman RA and AbuZar RA could not be resolved Uthman RA asked Abu Zar RA to leave Madina and go and settle somewhere else. He RA went and lived in the desert with his wife and old slave till his death.
So what Iam saying is that the matter canbe resolved but we do need people to have knowledge and honesty in their purpose. May Allah azza waJal guide them Ameen. There is currently a lot of deviency in our culture and rectifying it may require harsh measures as well. The custodian of Sharia is the court and it becomes their responsobility to enforce it.
I hope it helps
A
 

doorstar

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u did not like my comment on MI6 camouflaged NDS poodles. Too bad.
so... is it not enough for you that I've shown you to be a liar once? would you like more of the same? and if I do what guarantee is there that you will not go running to Forum leaders crying about me, just like like others of your type do and I end up getting censored.
 

messiach

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Itna ghussa.
so... is it not enough for you that I've shown you to be a liar once? would you like more of the same? and if I do what guarantee is there that you will not go running to Forum leaders crying about me, just like like others of your type do and I end up getting censored.
 
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