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Troops in Afghanistan ... in order to keep an eye on Nuclear Pakistan

Dalit

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He Flamebaited me openly and intentionally. I cautioned him in this regard and told him to speak his mind and his response to me is "you take your action." What I am supposed to make of all this? He have done this before as well.

This is absolutely weird behavior on his part.
Wisdom would be to approach him through PM. He is a patriotic Pakistani. No Pakistani member doubts his intentions.

Now let me tell you what he was really trying to say. At times you do have the tendency of advocating for the US. All of us have been long enough on this forum to know each other's stance and opinions. We all have our affection, loyalty and allegiance with one nation or another. I often make a case for China. No secret. I don't mind your loyalty with the US. What I would suggest is to have a balanced view when it comes to Pakistan related matters. Nothing should be above Pakistan. Not the US. Not Timbuktu. Not China. Nothing. Pakistan is our land. It is our soil and our mother. It deserves utmost respect and we must defend it at all cost. Even if that means looking a superpower like the US straight in the eyes. There should be uncompromising loyalty towards Pakistan.

The US is not a friend of Pakistan. It is a foe. 110%. Let there be no misconception about this whatsoever.
 
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LeGenD

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Wisdom would be to approach him through PM. He is a patriotic Pakistani. No Pakistani member doubts his intentions.

Now let me tell you what he was really trying to say. At times you do have the tendency of advocating for the US. We all have out affection, loyalty and allegiance with one nation or another. I don't mind your loyalty with the US. What I would suggest is to have a balanced view when it comes to Pakistan related matters.

The US is not a friend of Pakistan. It is a foe.
Thanks for your perspective, dear.

Even though I am OFFENDED by the audacity of those living in Foreign countries to judge my patriotism but I will not bite you; I welcome honest conversations instead. You did the right thing here. The penalized member should have been honest with me as well. He chose to Flamebait me instead and this is not only a violation of Forum Rules but weird behavior to cope with for real.

You are welcome to tell me which post of mine gives the impression of advocacy of USA in this thread for instance. Am I responsible for American intervention in Afghanistan? Afghanistan is in a bad shape due to its internal political dynamics, instability and ethnic fault-lines in the mix. Afghan Taliban had their shot to FIX things in Afghanistan as well and while they were able to stabilize large parts of the country and curb poppy cultivation (positives), they damaged their own reputation by suppressing women and supporting Al-Qaeda Network (negatives) [1]. Then 9/11 happened and you know the rest. I absolutely loathe the menace of terrorism and see much decay in modern Muslims unfortunately. There is too much Politics of Division to account for and Muslims are killing other Muslims in the mix [2].

I welcome Fencing of Afghan-Pakistan border and the Intra-Afghan dialogue. I understand that Afghan Taliban are a part of Afghanistan and it is not wise to sideline them in Afghan Politics. The Afghans have a golden opportunity to commit to this cause and end but how are things proceeding in this respect lately?

If Afghan Taliban and Co. desire removal of USA from Afghanistan then who was/is stopping them in this respect? Am I responsible for their FAILURE in this respect? They showed much potential in killing other Afghans and innocents on the other hand. Refer back to [1] and [2] above. Now you tell me.

I have my fair share of criticism of what Americans are up to in Afghanistan as well; they have done questionable things in Afghanistan (and Pakistan). The worse happened in times of Obama administration when they attempted to give greater representation to India in Afghanistan with support of another regional player (guess who). Pakistani representation in USA was terrible in these times as well and did not help our situation (Hussain Haqqani being a part of the problem as a reminder but was he all-powerful or something? Is there a comprehensive Pakistani investigation of WHY things turned sour in times of Obama administration? I do not recall any).

I desire a stable and prosperous Afghanistan which in turn will be good for Pakistan, and I also welcome CPEC because it is making Pakistani infrastructure better than ever before and there is HOPE that it will facilitate socioeconomic development in the country.

Now there is this whole Pakistan-USA relationship to talk about.

Since USA is a FOE of Pakistan as per YOU and possibly more. Please answer following questions.

1. Why Pakistan have trade relations with USA?
2. Why Pakistan borrows from IMF time and again?
3. Why Pakistan have given access to Americans in Afghanistan?
4. Why Pakistani armed forces have NOT discarded American equipment by now?
5. Why Pakistani security establishment have worked with Americans to curb terrorism in the region?
6. Why American embassy is not closed in Pakistan?
7. Why Pakistan have not declared WAR with USA?
8. Should WE disown Pakistani Americans as well?

What the F am I supposed to say about Americans in this forum? Throw them all out from PDF and bad mouth them at every turn?

Understand this: The Americans have lasted 20 years in Afghanistan because of easy access from Pakistan (LOGISTICS and ACCESS). It is absolutely juvenile to expect Afghan Taliban to drive Americans off from Afghanistan in view of this ground reality. You cut their access to Afghanistan; this will do the trick.

I will also give credit to Afghan Taliban for being honest and upfront with Americans about how they feel about the region and their intervention in the mix. This is MUCH better than blatant hypocrisy of having state-level relationship with Americans while declaring them a FOE in mere talks.

I am a straightforward man and cannot play these kind of games here.

@Path-Finder
 

xyx007

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I think we also need to understand the Quad and see where pakistan is standing in this new US quad doctrine and why india is celebrating.
 

Vapour

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Brothers can anyone please find the original text, I've looked for it i.e. for the reference to Pakistan.
Relevant extract from the link below - the article is the source, as the actual comments were made in an official meeting that's not for public consumption:

Women’s rights “will go back to the Stone Age,” Milley said, according to two of the sources. He argued that it wasn’t worth leaving the country after “all the blood and treasure spent” there over the last two decades. He also added that, in his view, the lack of 2,500 US troops in Afghanistan would make it harder to stem threats from a nuclear-armed Pakistan.


 

ziaulislam

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Realistically 2500 troops wouldnt be able to do much against the taliban let alone pakistan. The troops are their providing advisory and training to local forces. Also special operations/intelligence is also very crucial. In all honesty I dont get what the hype is with the US keeping a small contingent of troops. It would infact serve Pakistans interest. The govt and military have both stated they dont want the US to completely leave the region esp with a resurgent isis.

lastly this isnt the afghanistan of 1999. The taliban wont role into kabul in tanks. The war has already been won by them. Biden has no choice but a political settlement where the taliban play a major role in the afghan govt. A national govt which is supported by the taliban is already being discussed in Washington
But if USA refuses or discards the deal then 2500 troops arent enough, it will need a surge to atleast 10,000 for stale mate and 40,000 for pressure
Also money part is also important
It doesn't matter. The Americans will have their answer if they opt for treachery once again. We will sit back and watch what they do.
We are screwed either way
Instability and fighting between in afghanistan means millions of refugees pouring in pakistan
 

crankthatskunk

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LOL when I said this I was portrayed as a madman. I have been saying this for decades now. Now the truth comes out and it is gospel.

Everyone knew all along American designs against Pakistan. They are in Afghanistan to contain Pakistan and transform it into a vasal state. Basically a bitch state. We have senior members on this forum that naively believe in cordial relations between the US and Pakistan. LOL the US is the largest trade partner of Pakistan LOL Give me a break. Trade relations that are literally peanuts and also meant to blackmail and keep Pakistan on a leash. Even after all the treachery and backstabbing for decades upon decades some of us believe in falsehoods. Yet here we are. Naive and confused what to do.

This morning I saw pigeons flying and I immediately thought of Pakistan. The sort you tame, cage and train. They obediently eat, crap and fly, but always return to their base. Ready to enter the cages and be imprisoned willingly. That is what the Americans want to do with Pakistan. Cage it like an animal, but also tame it. Denuclearise Pakistan and keep strengthening Hindustani nuclear status. Strengthen Hindustani economy and keep Pakistan hand to mouth. Object when Pakistan cooperates with China to boost the economy. Turn Pakistan into a slave. A colony that obeys Indian and US commands. We have people in Pakistan who have no issues with becoming a bitch.
This is the task given to Nawaz and Zardari i.e. PMLN and PPP.
Pakistanis need to wake up and understand the games played with Pakistan.

There was no other reason to run up $39 bn trade deficit by PMLN. They wanted to make Pakistan economically unsustainable , Uncle Sam would have moved in to the rescue on the condition of -denuclearisation of Pakistan.

Nawaz and Zardari are traitors and should be treated as such.
 

Vapour

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@Dalit @LeGenD

Just a short rejoinder to your exchange:

I don't believe things are black and white most of the time in international relations. Despite the much publicised trade war and the tit for tat blaming and sanctions etc., the US and China are trading at major volumes. Despite their fast diverging geopolitical objectives, France and Turkey are still on talking terms at the highest level with their presidents' meeting a couple of days ago. There's a lot of grey in such diplomatic relations, just because the US' interests in security differ from ours, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to maximise our other interests in terms of trade and investment especially when other countries are able to do the same.
 

Dalit

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But if USA refuses or discards the deal then 2500 troops arent enough, it will need a surge to atleast 10,000 for stale mate and 40,000 for pressure
Also money part is also important

We are screwed either way
Instability and fighting between in afghanistan means millions of refugees pouring in pakistan
Pakistan should close the border this time around. No Afghans should be allowed to enter Pakistan. Shit is going to hit the fan regardless. Too many spoilers and even the US is not sincere in resolving the issue. We need to be prepared for the worst.
 

FuturePAF

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A logical piece of analysis at 'FOX News' about this region particularly Afghanistan ..... I must say I am surprise
Doug Mcgregor has his own understanding on the situation, but at least he’s honest about what he’s thinking. Basically, the title of the video says it all, now it’s up to Biden Administration if it will be pragmatic or not.

In the following video, Mcgregor states the US should pull out and that the Russian and the Iranians will go to create stability on their borders.

The best hand the US can play is to support the Pakistani military with equipment and let them to find a way to stabilize the situation As They See Fit! (Or at least not insult and undermine Pakistan, as it works to support the Afghan peace process) The US acknowledged the sacrifices the Pakistani military has made and knows they have a vested interest in a stable Afghanistan.

The Pakistani military has the COIN experience and frankly the need for stable borders. Pakistan is the only country on the Afghan border that is at least friendly with the US and outside of Russian control, especially now that the US is getting more hardline on the Russians and Iranians.

The Turks (Due to their relationship with the Uzbek leader Dostum and fellow Ethnic Turks) would, along with Pakistan be the two US friendly nations the US should stay friendly with, to allow them, on their own terms, to clean up the mess left after a withdrawal. Even then, Turkey and Pakistan will only be able to do what can be done from the outside. Afghans will decide for themselves, history has made that abundantly clear.


BTW, Col. Mcgregor is only stating what has been said for years now, in SIGAR reports and everyone paying attention; money is wasted on equipment given to the Afghans and the Gender programs trying to change Afghan culture won’t work.

 
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waz

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Relevant extract from the link below - the article is the source, as the actual comments were made in an official meeting that's not for public consumption:

Women’s rights “will go back to the Stone Age,” Milley said, according to two of the sources. He argued that it wasn’t worth leaving the country after “all the blood and treasure spent” there over the last two decades. He also added that, in his view, the lack of 2,500 US troops in Afghanistan would make it harder to stem threats from a nuclear-armed Pakistan.


Nice thank you.
 

ziaulislam

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Pakistan should close the border this time around. No Afghans should be allowed to enter Pakistan. Shit is going to hit the fan regardless. Too many spoilers and even the US is not sincere in resolving the issue. We need to be prepared for the worst.
Easier said..would you want us ignoring international law and dragging these refugees by hair and throwing them out?

Even the fascit govt of haseena couldnt do that..
 

ziaulislam

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This is the task given to Nawaz and Zardari i.e. PMLN and PPP.
Pakistanis need to wake up and understand the games played with Pakistan.

There was no other reason to run up $39 bn trade deficit by PMLN. They wanted to make Pakistan economically unsustainable , Uncle Sam would have moved in to the rescue on the condition of -denuclearisation of Pakistan.

Nawaz and Zardari are traitors and should be treated as such.
Tell that to the educated pakistanis

However the play book is different this time and will suceed

The playbook is to first defang the fail safe i.e establishment..once that happens the fail save will not kick in if we are near to default ..we will actually defualt..once fuel is not available and you have non stop black outs and no medicine available people will give up anything ...pakistanis arent super human..elites cant survive without imported cheese let alone fuel and food

Then someone will come on TV and say we had no hope and therefore we gave up our weapons
Maryum nawaz will do what haseena did to the army-minus the economic development
 

Turingsage

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The US does not need a single troop to be in Afghanistan to keep an eye on Pakistan's nuclear assets.
There are thousands of Pakistani's happy to do it as is the largest embassy in the world in Islamabad.
 

Dalit

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Doug Mcgregor has his own understanding on the situation, but at least he’s honest about what he’s thinking. Basically, the title of the video says it all, now it’s up to Biden Administration if it will be pragmatic or not.

In the following video, Mcgregor states the US should pull out and that the Russian and the Iranians will go to create stability on their borders.

The best hand the US can play is to support the Pakistani military with equipment and let them to find a way to stabilize the situation As They See Fit! The US acknowledged the sacrifices the Pakistani military has made and knows they have a vested interest in a stable Afghanistan.

The Pakistani military has the experience and frankly the need for stable borders. Pakistan is the only country on the Afghan border that is at least friendly with the US and outside of Russian control, especially now that the US is getting more hardline on the Russians.

The Turks (Due to their relationship with the Uzbek leader Dostum and fellow Ethnic Turks) would, along with Pakistan be the two US friendly nations the US should stay friendly with, to allow them, on their own terms, to clean up the mess left after a withdrawal.


Considering how the money is wasted on equipment given to the Afghans and the money on Gender programs, Col. Mcgregor is just stating what has been said for years

As long as US deep state believes in its fairytale that Hindustan is the answer to all problems nothing good will happen. The US is right now a very divided place. Even the deep state is bitterly divided on many issues.
The US does not need a single troop to be in Afghanistan to keep an eye on Pakistan's nuclear assets.
There are thousands of Pakistani's happy to do it as is the largest embassy in the world in Islamabad.
Don't worry Indian. Papa America's days in Islamabad are numbered. The Americans are going to make a mistake. They always do. Let things ignite a little.

LOL those Pakistanis don't survive. They are always caught and cut into pieces. Papa America couldn't even free Afridi. Neither could your country free Jadhav LOL
 

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