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Treason: Zardari asked me to roll back JF 17, Retired Air Marshall Shahid Latif.

Zarvan

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I have read several books now by top journalists from USA and UK. And one thing is clear from those books. That our Armed Forces leadership, yes they can have disastrous policy ideas but they are not traitors and are proud Pakistanis and look and negotiate for Pakistan's interests when they meet Americans or people of any other country. India is their obsession and kicking India's butt is their number one goal. Yes they can have some really naïve and dumb ideas on how to take Pakistan forward but they are proud Pakistanis. As for political leadership specially PPPP leadership they are full on traitors. Nawaz is no different. He may not be in traitor category but his lust for power is so much he basically tells USA to keep in power and he would be their pet.

And keep in mind those books which I am talking about are written against Pakistani Armed Forces and ISI. Even from those books this is the only conclusion you can come up with.

@Horus @SQ8 @Path-Finder @Tipu7 @Sulman Badshah @Arsalan
 

SQ8

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I have read several books now by top journalists from USA and UK. And one thing is clear from those books. That our Armed Forces leadership, yes they can have disastrous policy ideas but they are not traitors and are proud Pakistanis and look and negotiate for Pakistan's interests when they meet Americans or people of any other country. India is their obsession and kicking India's butt is their number one goal. Yes they can have some really naïve and dumb ideas on how to take Pakistan forward but they are proud Pakistanis. As for political leadership specially PPPP leadership they are full on traitors. Nawaz is no different. He may not be in traitor category but his lust for power is so much he basically tells USA to keep in power and he would be their pet.

And keep in mind those books which I am talking about are written against Pakistani Armed Forces and ISI. Even from those books this is the only conclusion you can come up with.

@Horus @SQ8 @Path-Finder @Tipu7 @Sulman Badshah @Arsalan
I would disagree knowing intimately those people in higher positions who have exploited their roles both while serving or retired to unfairly award or gain contracts to make millions in dollar terms that would rival corrupt politicians.

They have compromised state security at the highest level including the nuclear weapons program in these corrupt practices.

However, why we see less of them is for two reasons -
1. Institutional opacity which tries to avoid tarnishing their public image by letting such cases become known.

2. Accountability measures for those who do not have a good relationship with the highest brass.

3. Institutional values which those with generally good character and morals imbibe and carry on in their career.

One of your last chief’s brother went from a suzuki FX to a Land Cruiser during his brother’s tenure and extension. One air marshal who is well known to all has wheelings and dealings , Acdre’s who acquired 7 series while in service until they were dishonorably discharged quietly but now have 5-6 houses in Bahria town and DHA and so on.

So lets not have holy cows, they are Pakistanis and have the common shortcut and laziness mentality. Looking for quick ways to make money or move up - whether its basic “juggar” cheat, lie or steal.
The only difference is upbringing,environment, training and morals that define them (as with other Pakistanis) on their illicit activIties.

Unless there is strengthening of law and order starting from grass roots and impacting of national character; Pakistanis are and will remain a nation highly prone to corruption no matter where they are.

Finally, as Malik Riaz puts it - when the mrs tells a major that Mrs so and so colonel is doing so well and you have been sidelined for promotion (probably on merit but doesn’t matter) , your kids go in a rickety staff car and eat Fauji cereal while they seem to enjoy Kelloggs - at that time that man’s self respect and character come into test in which not all pass.
 

Zarvan

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I would disagree knowing intimately those people in higher positions who have exploited their roles both while serving or retired to unfairly award or gain contracts to make millions in dollar terms that would rival corrupt politicians.

They have compromised state security at the highest level including the nuclear weapons program in these corrupt practices.

However, why we see less of them is for two reasons -
1. Institutional opacity which tries to avoid tarnishing their public image by letting such cases become known.

2. Accountability measures for those who do not have a good relationship with the highest brass.

3. Institutional values which those with generally good character and morals imbibe and carry on in their career.

One of your last chief’s brother went from a suzuki FX to a Land Cruiser during his brother’s tenure and extension. One air marshal who is well known to all has wheelings and dealings , Acdre’s who acquired 7 series while in service until they were dishonorably discharged quietly but now have 5-6 houses in Bahria town and DHA and so on.

So lets not have holy cows, they are Pakistanis and have the common shortcut and laziness mentality. Looking for quick ways to make money or move up - whether its basic “juggar” cheat, lie or steal.
The only difference is upbringing,environment, training and morals that define them (as with other Pakistanis) on their illicit activIties.

Unless there is strengthening of law and order starting from grass roots and impacting of national character; Pakistanis are and will remain a nation highly prone to corruption no matter where they are.

Finally, as Malik Riaz puts it - when the mrs tells a major that Mrs so and so colonel is doing so well and you have been sidelined for promotion (probably on merit but doesn’t matter) , your kids go in a rickety staff car and eat Fauji cereal while they seem to enjoy Kelloggs - at that time that man’s self respect and character come into test in which not all pass.
They are not angels. Yes some are really corrupt people in Armed Forces. Also but because it's a big institution and not a family limited party even most corrupt scumbag in it has limit to kind of corruption or damage he can do. Plus there is some accountability. No civilian will give death sentence to their colleague. And as for Nuclear program nobody touches that. That is one thing all Military leadership have made sure of it. Also as for some who make money. Even most of their money stays in Pakistan that is one big reason they don't get exploited unlike our corrupt politicians who take all money in UK and USA banks.
 

newb3e

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i just gave you the truth, you are just not sure how to reply back.
nope you dint! you are just okay with corruption because its done by wardi!
Real Estate is one of the only things still keeping your Army afloat. You give it 1/10th of it's enemies budget and then you expect it to fight on multiple fronts against much stronger enemies.

Educate yourself.
so you are okay with wardi continued support of Zardari? and is that even sustainable in long run?
 

Goritoes

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Hi,

Zardari came due to the wishes of the USA---& blessing of Gen Kiyani. American sec state called Kiyani and asked if he would have ay issues with accepting Zardari as pres. Kiyani stated "no issues".
I wouldn't be surprised if things went down just as you mentioned.
 

-blitzkrieg-

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bhai you are legitimizing corruption done by wardi and have issues with corrupt politicians or awaam!

you sound confused my friend!
I know there is corruption in some form in military but under a check and balance.military courts work round the year and discharge/punish people..
But does the military take over someone's legit land ? If yes please let me know.
 
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-blitzkrieg-

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sir yes sir! they do! i know few their legit land was taken over by man in khaki!
That would be news.headlines in several papers... any online reference? In our country many people sit on lands with fake papers so even if there are disputes it's normal as . Political parties haven't moved up the ladder when it comes to land reforms and any sort of allotments to military are prone to misjudgments . expected.
 
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newb3e

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That would be news.headlines in several papers... any online reference? In our country many people sit on lands with fake papers so even if there are disputes it's normal as . Political parties haven't moved up the ladder when it comes to land reforms and any sort of allotments to military are prone to misjudgments . expected.
no link bas yaqeen karlo i am not lying!
 

araz

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That will happen regardless you give them bullet or elixir of life.
Ballot shows their incompetence. This is/why Zardari is not ever likely to come to power again. Waja ghair Shareef is gone as well. People may forgive once but they do not forget unless they are under the clasp of the Waderas of Sindh and even there their is the hope of getting job in some govtt office.
A
I think SL contentions did not bear out as Rao Qamar did not scale back the programme . He suffered from lack of funds which was directly due to governmental incompetence but he did not scale bavk the JFT Programme.
There is a lot of half truths in that statement.
A
 

Path-Finder

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I have read several books now by top journalists from USA and UK. And one thing is clear from those books. That our Armed Forces leadership, yes they can have disastrous policy ideas but they are not traitors and are proud Pakistanis and look and negotiate for Pakistan's interests when they meet Americans or people of any other country. India is their obsession and kicking India's butt is their number one goal. Yes they can have some really naïve and dumb ideas on how to take Pakistan forward but they are proud Pakistanis. As for political leadership specially PPPP leadership they are full on traitors. Nawaz is no different. He may not be in traitor category but his lust for power is so much he basically tells USA to keep in power and he would be their pet.

And keep in mind those books which I am talking about are written against Pakistani Armed Forces and ISI. Even from those books this is the only conclusion you can come up with.

@Horus @SQ8 @Path-Finder @Tipu7 @Sulman Badshah @Arsalan
as humans are prone ti mistakes. but mistakes are one thing and treachery is something completely different.

treachery can NEVER be forgiven.
 

SQ8

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They are not angels. Yes some are really corrupt people in Armed Forces. Also but because it's a big institution and not a family limited party even most corrupt scumbag in it has limit to kind of corruption or damage he can do. Plus there is some accountability. No civilian will give death sentence to their colleague. And as for Nuclear program nobody touches that. That is one thing all Military leadership have made sure of it. Also as for some who make money. Even most of their money stays in Pakistan that is one big reason they don't get exploited unlike our corrupt politicians who take all money in UK and USA banks.
Again, disagree - I have first hand witnesses in strategic programs where corruption of millions of USD has taken place. The more Pakistanis hide from reality, the worse it will continue to get. One general’s son lives in Dubai expermenting with Dad’s money which is apparently endless - another is in US living very comfort.
Then there is connections on famous restaurants in Pakistan and a former head of a military construction branch. Money does go abroad and similar channels are used.

The more it is denied, the more corruption takes root and Pakistan continues to rot.
 

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