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TLP during the leadership of Allama Khadim Hussain Razavi

Itachi

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Btw are you legitimizing sucide bombings? :what:
Suicide bombing is already legitimized. No one needs your, mine or the stamp of anyone to legitimize them. I know......reality is harsh, so is warfare. Hopefully you don't need a lesson on history of warfare either...


But I will gladly agree with you Rizvi Sahab had been an identical copy of Trump and Modi.
I just presented a very astute example to show you the holes in your logic. Now you're putting words in my mouth. :rolleyes:

No it cannot be, in the Pakistan where people have little to no knowledge of Arabic linguistic, they can claim whatever they want to (as they have always been) but people who have a command on classical Arabic differ on it in its entirety and btw Quran is classical Arabic and memorizing it is very different than having the command over the linguistic. :-)
You're underestimating the people of Pakistan. Quite a liberal/secular trait.

And your knowledge on the deen is quite limited too since you're referring to the Quran and Arabic while TLP's slogan comes from the hadiths....which don't need any interpretations since many books of hadith are available in Urdu.


The Talbiyah:

Perhaps one of the most noteworthy phrases of Islamic worship, these words ring out every Hajj and Umra. Known as the “Talbiyah” the above phrase is just part of the invocation that is chanted by pilgrims after entering the state of Ihram on their way to Makka to perform the rites of Hajj or Umra.


The text of the talbiyah is:
Labbayka Allāhumma Labbayk. Labbayk Lā Sharīka Laka Labbayk. Inna l-Ḥamda, Wa n-Niʻmata, Laka wal Mulk, Lā Sharīka Lak.

In Arabic: لَبَّيْكَ اللَّهُمَّ لَبَّيْكَ، لَبَّيْكَ لاَ شَرِيْكَ لَكَ لَبَّيْكَ، إِنَّ الْحَمْدَ وَالنِّعْمَةَ لَكَ وَالْمُلْكَ لاَشَرِيْكَ لَكَ

These words mean: “At Your service Lord God, At Your service. At Your service Lord God, you have no partners. All Praise and all Bounty are Yours alone, and all Sovereignty. You have no partners.”

The Talbiyah is a prayer of conviction, one that signifies that they intend to perform Hajj or Umra only for the sake of Allah. It is made repeatedly from the time of entering Ihram until the Ka’ba is seen by the one making it. It preoccupies the mind and tongue of the pilgrim from worldly concerns.

Commenting on this, scholars stated this shows that praying night prayers after Isha in congregation is prescribed in the Prophet’s Sunnah.

During the caliphate of Abu Bakr, people would congregate at different times of the night to pray together in the Prophet’s mosque. During Umar’s caliphate, the number of people increased to the point that there were competing congregations. Seeing this, he made an executive decision to end the competing congregations and organize people behind one Imam, appointing Tamim al-Dari and Ubayy b. K’ab alternate in leading them in prayer. (Bukhari 2010) It was called “Tarawih,” a word that means to relax, because they would pray 2 to 4 units of prayer then rest for a while. While the Prophet prayed not more than 13 units of optional night prayer in any given night, Aisha said “Don’t ask about how long and how perfect they were.” Understanding that the permission to pray at night was unrestricted and not limited to a specific number, some of the Salaf would pray an unlimited number of units in Ramadan nights. Others, such as Umar b. AbdulAziz and Imam Malik, would pray 36 units. The other three schools of Islamic law recommended 20 units of prayer for Tarawih, basing this off of what Umar organized the people to do during his caliphate.

What does the word mean?

Muslim scholars say that the Talbiyah has a number of meanings:

1. “Labbayk” means “Here I am time and again” to show that the response to Allah’s call to pilgrimage is lasting and ongoing.
2. “Labbayk” means, I submit and submit again, i.e., ongoing submission.
3. It also carries the meaning of persistence, meaning, I persist in obeying You, thus emphasizing the meaning of continuous servitude to Allah.
4. Another meaning is that of love, the Arab’s would say imra’ah labbah i.e. a loving woman. So saying “Labbayk” is as if to say “Out of love for you, O Allah, out of Love for You.”
5. It implies sincerity, as the word “lubb” means core or essence, so when you say “Labbayk” you’re expressing your dedication to Allah’s call from your innermost core.
6. Another meaning derives from the word “ilbaab” which means to draw close. Saying “Labbayk” then means “I draw near to you, O Allah.” In a Hadith Qudsi Allah says “Whoever draws near to me by a handspan, I draw near to him by an armspan.”
All of these meanings…presence, submission, persistence, love, dedication, and proximity, hearken back to the Talbiya being a symbol of Tawheed, the one saying it seeking to establish in his own head God’s oneness as established by Ibrahim, and announce this to those around him. Worshiping Allah alone is the spirit and aim of Hajj, as well as all the acts of worship. The Talbiyah is the key to this act of worship that the pilgrim is embarking on.

Inner dimensions of Talbiyah

We can understand and deduce the inner dimension of Talbiyah through the Hadeeth in which the Prophet ﷺ said: “When any pilgrim utters Talbiyah, every stone and tree on his right and on his left responds with a (similar) Talbiyah, until the whole earth resounds with it.” [Ibn Khuzaymah]

Reflect on this call and the act of repeating Talbiyah loudly as well as its external and internal impact and how it is related to the call of the founder of this great rite, the intimate friend of Allah, Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) عليه السلام when Allah The Almighty commanded him to call people and proclaim the message. Allah The Almighty promised him that He will convey his call to all people.

Allah Says:
{And proclaim to the people the Hajj [pilgrimage]; they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every distant pass.} [Qur’an, 22: 27]

It means: announce Hajj to mankind and call them to perform Hajj to this House which We have commanded you to build.
It was said that Ibrahim عليه السلام said, “O Lord, how can I convey this to people when my voice will not reach them?’’ It was said, “Call them and We will convey it.” So Ibrahim u stood up (on his place, or on the Black Stone, or on (the mountain of) As-Safa or on (the mountain of) Abu Qubays and said, “O mankind! Your Lord has established a House so come for pilgrimage to it.’’ It is said that the mountains lowered themselves so that his voice would reach all the corners of the earth, and those who were still in their mothers’ wombs and their fathers’ loins would hear the call.

The response came from everything that heard him, from stones, trees, and those whom Allah has decreed will make Hajj, until the Day of Resurrection: “We answer your call, O Allah, we answer your call.” [Ibn Katheer]

Conclusion

It is the slogan of declaring identity.
It also indicates that this rite is universal and brings happiness to all creatures, that all beings respond to it and that the Lord of all creatures and the whole universe blesses this rite.

It is the symbol of distinction which differentiates between the advocators of this great Divine rite and the advocators of other contrary earthly projects. It differentiates between this journey to which the whole existence responds and the human nature finds comfort in, and other projects which, if they do not clash, go against existence and are alien to the human nature.

Most of you don't even know what you stand against when you stand against TLP. So the above is just a warning for all. Those in circles of power or otherwise. :enjoy:
 
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Trango Towers

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its laughable that people are arguing about the technical aspects of labayak.
How many of you know what you recite in the namaz.
how many of you were taught namaz with meaning.
How many of you follow the 5 pillars of Islam
how many of you never lie.


Now any molvi get up and lead you by the ear...you follow like a sheep.

1st fix your fard.
Stop lying
earn honestly
Be kind

Than worry about the periphery
 

Itachi

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its laughable that people are arguing about the technical aspects of labayak.
How many of you know what you recite in the namaz.
how many of you were taught namaz with meaning.
How many of you follow the 5 pillars of Islam
how many of you never lie.


Now any molvi get up and lead you by the ear...you follow like a sheep.

1st fix your fard.
Stop lying
earn honestly
Be kind

Than worry about the periphery
You're getting quite riled up about this simple matter. :lol:

I do all of the above and more. You saying this is a peripheral matter is where you're dead wrong. I have put forth my explanation, all you need to do is understand it, like I understood and respected your arguments. :enjoy:
 

fisher1

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He was supporter of a declared & proven terrorist. This party (TLP) was formed in support of declared terrorist. Please do read detailed verdict of Highest court of Pakistan on it (https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/563891794.pdf). Anyone who supported him is supporting terrorism & fitna.
P.S. I wonder why admins allow terrorist sympathizers on this forum?
The terrorist symparhiser is our Prime Minister Imran Khan as well when TLP was against Nawaz Sharif. He wanted to join TLP


When Imran Khan came to power, he made TLP terrorists.

But unlike the snake and Munafiq Imran Khan, Pakistanis don't do Munafiqat and when they supported TLP against NS, they still support him against France.
Rizvi was a terrorist by every legal definition of Pakistani law and he should have been punished but sadly the state did not have the backbone to do that. The military showed him his place in 2018, when maddened with power, he asked for anarchy in the country by asking soldiers to rebel against the state. As they were all vanished within a span of 2 days, a reality dawned on TLP that they are nothing but puppets and should quietly stay as such. His followers took part in hooliganism and destruction of public property. They should all be condemned as harshly as possible and action should be taken against them but ofcourse leaders shape their own followers and the followers followed the extremist nature of the leader.

Propaganda pieces like the OP should not be encouraged on this forum
If Rizvi was a terrorist, Imran Khan is a terorrist too.

Imran Khan attacked parliament, PTV, used to say he's doing Jihad inciting his followers to do Jihad against the sitting government, believes OBL a terrorist was martyred, burned down bills, incited his followers to do the same and not pay taxes. Responsible for deaths of many innocents due to his dharnas.

The only reason Imran Khan isn't a terrorist while Rizvi is according to you, is simply because IK is a powerful person backed by powerful people while Rizvi was beloved to Pakistanis who don't like blasphemy.

The only reason TLP was packed up was because there was real chance of Rizvi coming to power and if that had happened then all the Kuffar puppets in government corridors who have made Pakistan their slave after Quads death were afraid Pakistan could become a rogue state like Iran posing real danger to Kafirs.

You think the general populace doesn't know our generals and people in power are selected in America?
 
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Itachi

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The terrorist symparhiser is our Prime Minister Imran Khan as well when TLP was against Nawaz Sharif. He wanted to join TLP
Since most here don't know this, it shows how much they actually know what they're talking about. :D


Although, I don't blame Imran Khan with the current hostile attitude towards TLP by some Pakistanis. This phenomenon predates Imran Khan.
 

Black.Mamba

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Since most here don't know this, it shows how much they actually know what they're talking about. :D
Exactly, we can never know this much of Islam :D but we just know that a person claiming the exclusive copyright © on being Ashiq-e-Rasool can never utter these words.

Looking forward to some creative innovative justification for it as well :D
 
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Itachi

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Exactly, we can never know this much of Islam :D but we just know that a person claiming the exclusive copyright © on being Ashiq-e-Rasool can never utter these words.
That is quite normal in Pakistan, you seem to have forgotten your roots. I don't do any of that but in this 4 pages of this thread, I have seen similar things.

Doesn't decredit any of the claims of TLP. Come at me when you have actual proof. Bashing the personality of someone who recently died is a new low for you.
 

Trango Towers

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You're getting quite riled up about this simple matter. :lol:

I do all of the above and more. You saying this is a peripheral matter is where you're dead wrong. I have put forth my explanation, all you need to do is understand it, like I understood and respected your arguments. :enjoy:
Not riled.
I can't belive...in Pakistan people focus on the sunnah and matter like labayak..
Yet fard....
A direct order from Allah...you all ignore. So if that's wrong then.

La kum deen na kum wal ya deen
 

Black.Mamba

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That is quite normal in Pakistan, you seem to have forgotten your roots. I don't do any of that but in this 4 pages of this thread, I have seen similar things.

Doesn't decredit any of the claims of TLP. Come at me when you have actual proof. Bashing the personality of someone who recently died is a new low for you.
Apparently for you everything is quite normal; earlier it was the sucide bombing, then the murder, now this. I wonder what else you will come up. As for being low believe me swearing at the time of Azaan still wins any day any time :-)
 
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Trango Towers

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Exactly, we can never know this much of Islam :D but we just know that a person claiming the exclusive copyright © on being Ashiq-e-Rasool can never utter these words.

Looking forward to some creative innovative justification for it as well :D
@Itachi this is the speech of a Muslim?

Sorry I think not. He is so far from Islam. This is a politician. Where is his money coming from
 

fisher1

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Since most here don't know this, it shows how much they actually know what they're talking about. :D
Majority of people here are either expats or the filthy rich of Islamabad who have a very western outlook on things.

To them, an extremist like Trump seems cool but same extremist like Khadim Rizvi looks like terorrist because one wears suits and is surrounded by women while another looks simple with a beard.

These westernised people definition of terrorists is same as Macrons and Trumps.

Rizvi was no different than Trump or Macron or Imran Khan or Modi or any other revolutionary leader. He had charisma and knew how to lead people.

The only difference was he stood against blasphemy.

Pakistan didn't protest or object against France. TLP did and people gathered with TLP. But these burger kids don't know what kind of grave sin blasphemy is so of course TLP is terrorist for protesting against France.

Can you imagine Burger kids west lovers shock when they see this hadith

It is supported by the report narrated by al-Shi’bi from ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him), which says that a Jewish woman used to revile and disparage the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). A man strangled her until she died, and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

Charlie Hebdo magazine actually fired the cartoonist for anti-semitism when he mocked Jews! Which shows the clear Jewish origin of these cartoons and they want to do to Islam what has been done to Christians.


I believe anyone who blasphemes should be given a horrifying death. Burn them, behead them, slaughter them, i don't care to send the message loud and clear.

If you can get serious punishment for denying holocaust, for insulting French flag and anthem, for being thrown into concentration camps in China for practicing Islam while still being respected.

I will nuke anyone who disrespects my mother and lose all my emotions and I love Prophet Muhammad (saww) more than my mother. You can't be a Muslim if you don't love Prophet Muhammad (saww) more than your mother, father and yourself.

These burger kids crying about violent protests were telling us how IKs dharna violent nature is unavoidable and collateral damage.

Perhaps, if the government of Pakistan actually acts like an Islamic government then TLP wouldn't have a reason to exist.

Do you know people here actually preach things like Pakistan should mind its own business and not worry about France blasphemy and keep doing business with France?
 
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El Sidd

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Exactly, we can never know this much of Islam :D but we just know that a person claiming the exclusive copyright © on being Ashiq-e-Rasool can never utter these words.

Looking forward to some creative innovative justification for it as well :D
You are talking about Punjab where the police itself says people are rude and health minister is awed by weird creatures of its biggest city.

This is not alien to anyone in Pakistan specially when political feudal families taunt each other's age, gender and family life.
 

Black.Mamba

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You are talking about Punjab where the police itself says people are rude and health minister is awed by weird creatures of its biggest city.

This is not alien to anyone in Pakistan specially when political feudal families taunt each other's age, gender and family life.
He does not claim to be from political feudal families rather "I am the biggest Ashiq-e-Rasool" and so his followers believe. Hypocrisy does not take anyone anywhere; either he is a political leader or he is the most pious religious leader (as portrayed) but conveniently shifting between the two is where it messes up.

If he is a politcal leader he can use whatever language he wants for all I care but where he brings the name of my beloved Prophet PBUH and in the same breath use these words and language I consider it as the blasphemy of the highest order.
 

El Sidd

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He does not claim to be from political feudal families rather "I am the biggest Ashiq-e-Rasool" and so his followers believe. Hypocrisy does not take anyone anywhere; either he is a political leader or he is the most pious religious leader (as portrayed) but conveniently shifting between the two is where it messes up.

If he is a politcal leader he can use whatever language he wants for all I care but where he brings the name of my beloved Prophet PBUH and in the same breath use these words and language I consider it as the blasphemy of the highest order.
I told you i am not interested in your petty sectarian feuds.

And its how people talk in his hometown of Attock
 

krash

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TLP got more than 2.1M votes in the 2018 elections....and they have many more million sympathizers. By my estimates, half of Pakistanis, if not more.

You should watch who you call "terrorist sympathizers". :lol:
Clearly, a whopping less than 1% of Pakistanis voting for him shows that half of Pakistanis sympathize with him.
 

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