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Tipu Sultan and Investiture

R2D2

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To gain recognition and increase his prestige in India against his neighboring rivals, as well as the devious British Colonists Tipu Sultan tried to get Investiture or recognition from the Ottoman Caliph. He also developed diplomatic relations with the French.

Previously, too among the Delhi Sultans, Iltutmish and Mahmood Ghaznavi had got Investiture from the Baghdad Abbaside Calpihs. Similarly, Feroz Shah Tughlaq and Muhammad bin Tughlaq got it from the Caliphs in Egypt.

Islamic Law calls for a unitary state under the Caliph. but reality dictated the as the Caliph could not control distant lands or became weak, so he recognized the Muslim rulers who in turn paid him yearly tribute.

The present disputes between Muslim entities i.e. The Afghan Taliban and the Islamic State can be solved with this legal precedent. This will help in bringing quick peace to Afghanistan, and bring the country out of decades of war which have its effects on the peace in Pakistan as well. This will also control the spread of the IS as regional entities will pay symbolic homage to it.
 

jamahir

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sincerely, a modern khalifaat is a regressive and reactionary idea.

and there is no way hazrat tipu sultan can ever be equated to reactionaries like taliban and isil.

the only way for afghanistan to have progress is going back to the socialism of the 80's.
 

R2D2

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The Islamic form of government was actually a socialist form of government in the reign of first four Caliphs who earned minimum laborer wages in spite of holding the highest post. Only later on it was hijacked by hereditary Sultans who collected fortunes and built residential castles. But still the rest of the legal jurisprudence system remained Islamic with Qazi courts until 1924.
 

jamahir

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The Islamic form of government was actually a socialist form of government in the reign of first four Caliphs who earned minimum laborer wages in spite of holding the highest post. Only later on it was hijacked by hereditary Sultans who collected fortunes and built residential castles. But still the rest of the legal jurisprudence system remained Islamic with Qazi courts until 1924.
i agree with the general direction of your words because i have always called islam as early socialism... however, societies today must move beyond being identified with a certain religion... take syria for instance... it is a multi-religion state and of socialist nature ( the baath socialist movement ) and that socialism there had christian founders as well... will they agree or even be comfortable to the idea of living under a khalifa?? they are among the defenders of syria at the moment against conspiracy by mainly western christian states ( their co-religionists )... would they not be disheartened if bashar al-assad suddenly declared tomorrow that syria is now a khalifaat??

if we agree islam to be early socialism or if we even agree at least partially for islam to have socialistic elements, then we should develop it further. :)
 

R2D2

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Capitalism is a disease of the economic system. Islam is a much bigger thing than economy. It has a view of Universe and its Creator. The Creator has given us social, psychological, spiritual, moral, family, political, military, religious and economic instructions etc. To follow just socialism the belly would be somewhat full but the soul would be hungry.

Christians and Alawites remained happy for more than a thousand years under the Islamic rule.

If Carl Marx and Lenin say religion is regressive or anti science or anti progression of history it doesn't mean a thing to me. Their knowledge is limited.
 

asad71

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To gain recognition and increase his prestige in India against his neighboring rivals, as well as the devious British Colonists Tipu Sultan tried to get Investiture or recognition from the Ottoman Caliph. He also developed diplomatic relations with the French.

Previously, too among the Delhi Sultans, Iltutmish and Mahmood Ghaznavi had got Investiture from the Baghdad Abbaside Calpihs. Similarly, Feroz Shah Tughlaq and Muhammad bin Tughlaq got it from the Caliphs in Egypt.

Islamic Law calls for a unitary state under the Caliph. but reality dictated the as the Caliph could not control distant lands or became weak, so he recognized the Muslim rulers who in turn paid him yearly tribute.

The present disputes between Muslim entities i.e. The Afghan Taliban and the Islamic State can be solved with this legal precedent. This will help in bringing quick peace to Afghanistan, and bring the country out of decades of war which have its effects on the peace in Pakistan as well. This will also control the spread of the IS as regional entities will pay symbolic homage to it.
1.Yes, that has been the practice among Muslims in the past. For instance the Nawab/Sultan of Bengal would owe allegiance to the Badshah at Delhi who in turn would owe allegiance to the Caliph at Damascus/Baghdad. After the English overthrew the Mughals, SA Muslims continued to offer khutba in the name of the Caliph - then located in Istanbul. This continued till 1947.
2.I do not know who do the Indian Muslims offer khutba to, India being a Dar ul Harb?
 

jamahir

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Capitalism is a disease of the economic system
economics itself is a disease which must be abolished.

To follow just socialism the belly would be somewhat full but the soul would be hungry.
for the present situation i say - "when one's material needs are fulfilled without spending most of the day in economic bondage, one can have the spiritual calmness and harmony to create, discover and contribute... this is the simple desire of socialism"

Christians and Alawites remained happy for more than a thousand years under the Islamic rule.
the alawites or alevis are a multi-community culture and many in syria are muslim, including the president.

If Carl Marx and Lenin say religion is regressive or anti science or anti progression of history it doesn't mean a thing to me. Their knowledge is limited.
my socialism didn't start from studying classic marxian argument but organically... i later used the fine word "socialism" to describe my thoughts.

i see it like this...

argumentative progressive socialism has existed since humans began forming communities or families... it was suppressed by those who wanted fascist goals but even so socialism had influences over socieities... the prophets and true preachers forwarded socialism and sought and fought to preach simplifications where capitalism, imperialism and reactionary thought had brought injustice and complications to socieities... hazrat muhammad was one of these progress forwarders and i and many modern muslim socialists call islam as early argumentative socialism... the buddha i also consider a prior progress bringer or at least a great preacher and questioner.

marx and lenin provided further ideas of simplification... for example, in modern socialist states in dprk or former libyan jamahiriya or ussr, there is ( or was ) no private ownership of land and this is a improvement on even what islam says about economics... this cannot be denied.

so again i say, all socialist ways lead to a communist scientific human future, because that is the most natural and simplest of all societal arrangements.

@Yorozuya @WAJsal ^^^
 
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Islamic form of Government or Khilafah is inherently based on its constituents pledging an oath of allegiance to a caliph. That can only happen when society is structured in such a way that independent allegiances can be accrued! A representative of each tribe or constituency is the only one required for such oath. The state doesn't essentially require land or territory per se but a series of constituencies pledging to the caliph and caliph being the protector of of all things Muslim and insurer of establishing law and order. Caliph can assign his own governors as his deputies over regions. Islam doesn’t separate clergy and state as had been the case with plurality of self styled Caliphates which kept political affairs of the state under the kings and religious affairs under grand mufti. Islam however doesn't differentiate as such and hence the political and religious life is under one tent... for example; an Imam for prayer is supposed to be a person of honor in his community and He must meet the local requirements of an honorable person and also must be a performing Muslim that has religious knowledge. These things and many other in alignment make a structural Khilafah. Groups or entities causing chaos and not able to establish peace among populations cannot be considered harbingers of Khilafah. In Islam there is no such thing as greater good i.e. committing evil or wrong in order to bring about the good. A Muslim must meet the basic tenets of morality at all times as the eventual outcome is in the control of Almighty and not that person's justifying his morality for eventual good that may come out of it.
 

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