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Featured Time to bury the past and move forward: COAS Bajwa

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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NSA Moeed Yusuf clarification of what the COAS said:

“1. Core interest - kashmir
2. Bury the past - other differences between the two countries.
3. Prerequisite for forward talks - reverse the 5 August unilateral actions.
4. Kashmir solution - as per UN resolutions.
5. No compromise - on both kashmr issue n the comprehensive securty”

@HRK
@Air Wolf
@Vortex
 

Mirza Jatt

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Glad that you admit that surgical strike did happen. For the rest well ofcourse as a Pakistani you will push your narrative although your points have been discussed to death on this very forum.

And what you call showing indian military its place, let me show you what actually happened. It was Indian Air force which penetrated DEEP inside Pakistani state while your entire so called one of the best military defence was fooled into believing that attack might happen in a other theatre. (Yes it was tricked successfully on that very night). We bomb you on a place where you claim nothing happened but when you had to take the journalists, it took you two months to repair the damages before you could allow the journalists for A GUIDED TOUR. Mark the words.. TWO MONTHS and GUIDED TOUR.

And then you counter attacked. Congratulations. Full marks to you. We are not the one who would claim entire victory just to satisfy our ego. Let me give credit where it's due. So You attacked...Yes....but you were hell scared to even cause a tiny little damage. Whether you missed deliberately or actually missed it, that we can leave for some other time. Oh btw while we discuss all this, never forget your jets just ran back faster than it entered in a blink and miss mission. While our technical faults resulted in our pilots chase pushing you back well inside your territory and resulted in a loss of an old fighter craft. So stop self pleasing by this false bravado. India has a lot to learn about technical upgradation for its fleet from this episode no doubts. We still have few gaps to fill technically and actually it's good that this happened as few loopholes were identified. But we never got caught with our entire force sleeping while enemy entered.

All this is discussion is not only a waste but never ending so let me try to bring you back to where I started... the point is in India...we do not talk about Indian Kashmir anymore. The sight is on Azad Kashmir. Hopefully this time you will be well prepared... whether strategically aor military, I leave on time for us to realise.
Here's another perspective.

Modi and the Indian military were shown their place by Pakistan after both surgical strikes and the Balakot attack.

- After the so called surgical strikes, Pakistani authorities took the domestic and foreign media and foreign diplomats to the sites where India claimed to have conducted strikes to debunk Indian lies & propaganda.

- After the Balakot strikes, independent analysts debunked Indian claims about inflicting any damage, and satellite imagery confirmed that India inflicted no damage, and on top of that the PAF bombed areas close to Indian military installations as a warning and also shot down at least one IAF fighter, captured the pilot, caused India to shoot down its own helicopter killing all on board - basically embarrassed and humiliated Modi and India.

The only thing India could do, since it got humiliated militarily by Pakistan, was to take the cowards way out and attack the innocent Kashmiris in Indian Occupied Kashmir - revoke IoK's statehood, communications clampdown, curfews, military crackdown and put in place policies to commit demographic genocide in IoK.

Subsequently, Modi & India had the Galwan fiasco with China and yet more humiliation. To top it all off, the Trump Administration got booted out, and there is no guarantee that Biden, despite still carrying US Establishment baggage, would push for the kind of confrontational policies towards China that Trump did, which would in turn reduce India's utility for the US to 'contain China'.

Take all this together, and it's not about 'Modi being a great Statesman or politician', but the fact India realizes that it has tried and failed with its policies towards Pakistan and China, and is living in a fools world thinking that it can manage a single front war, let alone a two front war.
 

masterchief_mirza

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hindu rashtra is here . we removed muslim rule from india .
Like fudge you did. Your rabble can organise a good butlering committee for the white people who actually subdued Islamic rule in the subcontinent. Muslims fought each other too, weakening all the rival late Mughal era groups.

Abrahamics stopped other abrahamics. Dharmics (with the exception of Sikhs) stood around filming it for tik tok.
fact that Muslims and Parsis joined that fight should tell you that it was not a religious fight, but one for native rule and rights.
Incorrect conclusion derived from simple confirmation bias. Aryans and the iranics of the IVC were both non-native. You know this better than your non-parsi friends. In the subcontinent, multiple non-native groups vied for power with each other.
 

Rakesh

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NSA Moeed Yusuf clarification of what the COAS said:

“1. Core interest - kashmir
2. Bury the past - other differences between the two countries.
3. Prerequisite for forward talks - reverse the 5 August unilateral actions.
4. Kashmir solution - as per UN resolutions.
5. No compromise - on both kashmr issue n the comprehensive securty”

@HRK
@Air Wolf
@Vortex
No, NSA didn't talk about "reversing august 5 decision".
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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Glad that you admit that surgical strike did happen.
You have comprehension issues - Pakistan debunked Indian lies & propaganda about surgical strikes by taking the media and foreign diplomats to the alleged locations of the strikes to prove it was all hogwash.
And what you call showing indian military its place, let me show you what actually happened. It was Indian Air force which penetrated DEEP inside Pakistani state while your entire so called one of the best military defence was fooled into believing that attack might happen in a other theatre. (Yes it was tricked successfully on that very night). We bomb you on a place where you claim nothing happened but when you had to take the journalists, it took you two months to repair the damages before you could allow the journalists for A GUIDED TOUR. Mark the words.. TWO MONTHS and GUIDED TOUR.

And then you counter attacked. Congratulations. Full marks to you. We are not the one who would claim entire victory just to satisfy our ego. Let me give credit where it's due. So You attacked...Yes....but you were hell scared to even cause a tiny little damage. Whether you missed deliberately or actually missed it, that we can leave for some other time. Oh btw while we discuss all this, never forget your jets just ran back faster than it entered in a blink and miss mission. While our technical faults resulted in our pilots chase pushing you back well inside your territory and resulted in a loss of an old fighter craft. So stop self pleasing by this false bravado. India has a lot to learn about technical upgradation for its fleet from this episode no doubts. We still have few gaps to fill technically and actually it's good that this happened as few loopholes were identified. But we never got caught with our entire force sleeping while enemy entered.

All this is discussion is not only a waste but never ending so let me try to bring you back to where I started... the point is in India...we do not talk about Indian Kashmir anymore. The sight is on Azad Kashmir. Hopefully this time you will be well prepared... whether strategically aor military, I leave on time for us to realise.
You can spin it however you like, but here are the facts. The IAF barely ingressed (if it ingressed at all and did not launch the weapons from across the LoC) to avoid being engaged by PAF CAP's, and even then blew the op (whether hurried out of fear of interception, poor training, whatever) only damaging a few trees, rocks and the now infamous crow. You lot have been running around like chickens with your heads cut off trying to come up with the most absurd reasons to prove that 'damage occurred in the compound and people were killed', and in the process have become a laughing stock even in front of many of your foreign supporters and allies.

The PAF shot down an IAF fighter, captured an IAF pilot and the Indian military in its panicked response shot down its own chopper killing all on board.

I mean, the fact that you lot not only try to defend this pathetic display, but also use it to polish Modi's rear end to try and make it shine like the sun, is an illustration of the complete lack of shame you've developed.

And you can talk about whatever you want, we already know you're a deluded, hate-mongering, petty and insecure nation obsessed with Pakistan, but that doesn't change the reality that Jammu & Kashmir is disputed territory, recognized as disputed by the UN and the rest of the world, and has UNSC Resolutions outlining the means of resolution, committed to by both India and Pakistan.
 
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Rakesh

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Yes he did - from 36 seconds onward, "India needs to create an enabling environment. We have been paused since the actions of August 5 and those actions needs to be fixed".
Given the fact that Modi government will not change status of J&K, do you think talks will not move forward. NSA said, what is to be said. I believe ground realities are different and Pakistan is moving forward with those realities.
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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This guy analyses it nicely. No jingoism, just some facts.

Unless you want to argue that the Pakistani National Security Advisor, Moeed Yusuf, just called the COAS a liar in the interview I posted above, his clarification has made the part of this analysis related to Indian Occupied Kashmir outdated and incorrect.
Given the fact that Modi government will not change status of J&K, do you think talks will not move forward. NSA said, what is to be said. I believe ground realities are different and Pakistan is moving forward with those realities.
No.

One way or another, India is going to have to reverse some of the steps in IoK, especially related to India's policies of demographic genocide.
 

Chhatrapati

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Do you guys get paid to be this deluded and crawl up Modi's rear end or does it just come naturally to you?

I mean, you might have some iota of credibility had you all not already lost it trying to promulgate lie after lie after India's surgical strikes & Balakot fiascos.
You don't have any confusion, much like the Nazis, KKK etc have no confusion.

They might be racist, deluded nut-jobs living in a world long lost to them (haven't accepted reality yet) , but they (and you) certainly are not confused.
What a pathetic response, that amounts to a brainless troll rather than a moderator who used to write enjoyable original articles on PDF.
 

jupiter2007

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India does not have the balls to do the surgical strike on Pakistan. To please their local audience, they create these Bollywood style stories. Even Bombay attack was a false flag operation Planned and executed by RAW.
Pulwama attack was also inside job. It was planned to benefit Modi government and put pressure on Pakistan. Attempted air strike on Kashmir in 2019 was actually planned with help from France and Israel but Indian pilots got scared and dropped their load in their pants, lost 2 planes, one helicopter, drank Fantastic tea and went back.
 

Raj-Hindustani

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NSA Moeed Yusuf clarification of what the COAS said:

“1. Core interest - kashmir
2. Bury the past - other differences between the two countries.
3. Prerequisite for forward talks - reverse the 5 August unilateral actions.
4. Kashmir solution - as per UN resolutions.
5. No compromise - on both kashmr issue n the comprehensive securty”

@HRK
✌️

@Air Wolf
@Vortex

Actually, it is a problem for both nations.

Pakistan Side

Pakistan establishment is aware that now there is no solution on Kashmir and it is a lost cause but no one knowledge in public.

People of Pakistan only know the two things because taught from childhood:
1. India is illegally occupied the Kashmir and Kashmiri are suffering under Indian control.
2 . Kashmir Banega Pakistan.

Example - COAS just said that time to bury the past and move forward. Now he is facing critisism in pakistan and NSA is clarifing the statement.


Indian Side

Most of the Indian aware that PAk Kashmir and GB is a lost case. So, mostly (80-90%) do not talk about PAK Kashmir and GB and accept that we will never get it back. Most are ready to accept LOC as a permanent border and want to live peacefully with Pakistan but does ready to compromise on any terror attack in India.

Challenge - Still, Politicians used PAK Kashmir and GB during the elections to get the votes from the common people. Now only a few people vote the name of PAK Kashmir and GB, And the name of Pakistan.
Just NOte - NO one care about Nuclear war and war with Pakistan if will happen for kashmir.


So Pakistan has to decide the future of the India and Pak relationship. It will remain the same as past many decades or bury the past and move forward.
 

VkdIndian

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Unless you want to argue that the Pakistani National Security Advisor, Moeed Yusuf, just called the COAS a liar in the interview I posted above,
No, not a liar. But it did look like an attempt to assuage feelings of hurt due to perceived softening of Pakistan’s stance on Kashmir. As far as Moeed Yusuf is considered, he may be called NSA, but has hardly any standing compared to his counterpart in India. It is not too far back when Moeed was openly criticised by a federal minister in Pakistan. Moeed couldn’t do anything more but snigger when asked about that criticism.
Bottom line - for external as well as internal audience it is Bajwa who calls the shots and not Moeed.
One way or another, India is going to have to reverse some of the steps in IoK, especially related to India's policies of demographic genocide.
The genocide as quoted by Pakistan has hardly any takers outside of Pakistan. As far as demography is considered it was altered by externally supported terrorists by hounding out almost all the Hindus from large parts of Kashmir. I don’t remember any international outrage over that genocide. Hardly any tears were shed by anyone at that time.

Whatever steps India has taken are unlikely to be reversed. Now, this is my assessment and you may disagree.

The fact would come out in the near future.
 
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AgNoStiC MuSliM

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Example - COAS just said that time to bury the past and move forward. Now he is facing critisism in pakistan and NSA is clarifing the statement.
The COAS, in the same speech, also very specifically pointed to how the Kashmir dispute remained the core issue preventing peace between India & Pakistan, and that India had to take the first steps to create an enabling environment for things to progress.

The problem is that some people, on both sides, have chosen to only look at the 'bury the past' comment out of context and ignore the part the COAS said about Kashmir being a core issue and India taking the first steps to create a conducive environment, in order to promote a particular narrative of Pakistan selling out Kashmir.

That said, Pakistan & India both realized a long time ago that neither side could take over the parts of J&K controlled by the other through military force. If anything, it is the Indian political leadership that has been issuing war-mongering statements of taking over Pakistan Administered Kashmir, whereas the Pakistani civilian and military leadership has talked of dialog and peaceful resolution of the dispute going back before Musharraf. And, as I pointed out earlier in this thread, Pakistani State material support for anti-Indian occupation militancy & freedom fighters was ended by Musharraf almost 2 decades ago.

India harping on so called 'Pakistani support for terrorism' is just a blame-game copied out of the Israeli playbook - keep demonizing the Palestinians, keep them divided & weak and use even minor local incidents to argue against a final resolution whilst continuing to expand settlements and taking over more and more Palestinian land that will never be returned when a peace agreement is finally reached.
 

AgNoStiC MuSliM

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No, not a liar. But it did look like an attempt to assuage feelings of hurt due to perceived softening of Pakistan’s stance on Kashmir. As far as Moeed Yusuf is considered, he may be called NSA, but has hardly any standing compared to his counterpart in India. It is not too far back when Moeed was openly criticised by a federal minister in Pakistan. Moeed couldn’t do anything more but snigger when asked about that criticism.
Bottom line - for external as well as internal audience it is Bajwa who calls the shots and not Moeed.
The COAS gave a speech that covered broad policy outlines and direction. It was not meant to focus on specifics. The COAS clearly presented Kashmir as being the core issue preventing peace between India & Pakistan and that India needed to take the first steps to create a conducive environment. If 'bury the past' was meant to include burying the J&K dispute, then why would the same speech reference the centrality of the Kashmir dispute?

Moeed Yusuf merely expanded upon the broad points articulated by the COAS - there was nothing that MY contradicted or brought in that was new.
The genocide as quoted by Pakistan has hardly any takers outside of Pakistan. As far as demography is considered it was altered by externally supported terrorists by hounding out almost all the Hindus from large parts of Kashmir. I don’t remember any international outrage over that genocide. Hardly any tears were shed by anyone at that time.
If outsiders are allowed to settle in J&K, a disputed territory, without the permission of the locals, then it is demographic genocide - there is no other way to look at that.

Second, the demographic impact of the Kashmir pandit exodus is minimal compared to the demographic impact of the genocide carried out by the Maharaja - almost 200,000 muslims were massacred and many more chased out, events that were part of the trigger behind the tribal invasion in 1947. When you look at the demographic impact of not just those killed or chased out, but the subsequent generations that would have been born and raised and multiplied in J&K since 1947, the impact of the Kashmir pandit exodus pales in comparison.
 

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