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Thrifty at Fifty: PAF Mirages.

Ali_Baba

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The Mirages have served PAF well, and they have a legacy that was fantastically rounded off with the 27 Feb 2019 strikes. However, it is time to let them pass into history with all that they have achieved for PAF.
 

MastanKhan

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Its not true sir, you are ill informed. Trust me.
Hi,

If such is the case then I am thrilled---.

So---you are telling me that they are not going to make a vietnam of the united states

So---they are not going to tell the americans that that military is war hardened military---they will beat you up

So---this time they will go in and kill a NATION LESS OUTCAST rather than let a christian military invade a muslim nation

So---this time the air force will not say to the navy---your problem you handle it

So---this time the air force will not tell the army---you take care of your problem on the new front---we don't have the time to give you support---

So---if such is the case---then I am as happy as a cucumber---. I have no personal grudge with any one---.

Thank you---. That took care of many of the problems

Would you also be able to tell us where the funds went for security at APS---and why it took so long to react---?
 

AZADPAKISTAN2009

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Well Provided that Pakistan have a , rebuilding and overhaul capabilities for Mirage Fighter Jets , we likely would be able to completely recover Mirages purchased in free market

 

Thorough Pro

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I might be able to shed some light on that but before I can do that you have to prove that there were funds allocated for the security of APS, when and how did that happen and who was incharge of those funds?

Would you also be able to tell us where the funds went for security at APS---and why it took so long to react---?
 

MastanKhan

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I might be able to shed some light on that but before I can do that you have to prove that there were funds allocated for the security of APS, when and how did that happen and who was incharge of those funds?
Hi,

The parents made a claim on public television news that funds for security was added to the fees---per student---.
 

wasileo80

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Hi,

If such is the case then I am thrilled---.

So---you are telling me that they are not going to make a vietnam of the united states

So---they are not going to tell the americans that that military is war hardened military---they will beat you up

So---this time they will go in and kill a NATION LESS OUTCAST rather than let a christian military invade a muslim nation

So---this time the air force will not say to the navy---your problem you handle it

So---this time the air force will not tell the army---you take care of your problem on the new front---we don't have the time to give you support---

So---if such is the case---then I am as happy as a cucumber---. I have no personal grudge with any one---.

Thank you---. That took care of many of the problems

Would you also be able to tell us where the funds went for security at APS---and why it took so long to react---?
Sir, i replied on what you written in your post that Pakistani military commanders Brigadiers, Cols and Majors dont know anything about advance military technologies...
And for your above post.. its your opinion and i respect your opinion. thanks
 

MastanKhan

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Sir, i replied on what you written in your post that Pakistani military commanders Brigadiers, Cols and Majors dont know anything about advance military technologies...
And for your above post.. its your opinion and i respect your opinion. thanks
Hi,

They do and they don't---.
 

The Accountant

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View attachment 470268

Is this even be celebrated ?
Brother this is one of the aspects you are talking about but considering the type of finances our PAF they are doing very hard to manage within the limited funds.

It is our money which they are trying to use efficiently otherwise it is in best interest of PAF (not ours) to get the latest and modern goodies.

We need to realize its not PAF's obsession with mirages but their inability to arrange funds for new goodies. They are risking their life as our nation can't afford new planes in the required quantity.

The requirement of a new and advanced plane is the necessity and nobody can understand it better than PAF but limitations are there.

Therefore rather than mocking we should admire their efforts to risk their life to protect ours ...

As a civilian its our duty of national defense to strengthen the economy and then they will be able to buy more sophisticated tools of defense...
 

volatile

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Brother this is one of the aspects you are talking about but considering the type of finances our PAF they are doing very hard to manage within the limited funds.

It is our money which they are trying to use efficiently otherwise it is in best interest of PAF (not ours) to get the latest and modern goodies.

We need to realize its not PAF's obsession with mirages but their inability to arrange funds for new goodies. They are risking their life as our nation can't afford new planes in the required quantity.

The requirement of a new and advanced plane is the necessity and nobody can understand it better than PAF but limitations are there.

Therefore rather than mocking we should admire their efforts to risk their life to protect ours ...

As a civilian its our duty of national defense to strengthen the economy and then they will be able to buy more sophisticated tools of defense...
Sir Im not mocking their efforts ,As only force which has my respect is Air Force ,My heart cries when i seen Mirages going down . The probable analysis as business to be done as opportunity cost of overhauling of these mirages against newer acquisitions . You can agree with me the cost of refurbishment is not free or less ? so keeping old horses ready for battle is not appropriate ,their is a reason rest of world retires these birds .Now case of not getting new jet can some how justify but J10 can easily start replacing these in 1:2 .What is the problem in this purchase ?
 

The Accountant

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Sir Im not mocking their efforts ,As only force which has my respect is Air Force ,My heart cries when i seen Mirages going down . The probable analysis as business to be done as opportunity cost of overhauling of these mirages against newer acquisitions . You can agree with me the cost of refurbishment is not free or less ? so keeping old horses ready for battle is not appropriate ,their is a reason rest of world retires these birds .Now case of not getting new jet can some how justify but J10 can easily start replacing these in 1:2 .What is the problem in this purchase ?
Do you know the cost of overhaul v/s purchase of new equipment and its integration?

Plus you are also ignoring the fact that we are short in f16s by atleast one and a half squadron (atleast 25 aircraft)

The original plan was 110 F16s to be upgraded to V standard in 5 to 8 years time ...
250 JF17s and Fifth generation to arrive in a decade's time ...

Now plan is not working due to xyz reason and PAF is improvising in the best possible way ...

Once it is confirmed that we are not getting any more F16s and no upgrades then J10 is the only choice we will have ...

However, do remember that having one time of aircraft (JF17s and J10s) has demerits of its own ... Both J10 and JF17 will be using same weapon system and it will be comparatively easy for an adversary to make countermeasures against our weapons whereas a mix of two different types of weapon systems will make the job adversary really difficult just like they are still wondering what did actually happened on 27th ...

My take is India is going for 5th generation earlier than planned and they will be increasing the order of Rafael ... They have already identified that both thunder and F16s are with the current network-centric warfare assets of Pakistan are more than a match to India's MKI and that the reason India celebrated even the escape of remaining the MKIs ...

Do remember what happened to IAF in 65 they took revenge in 1971 and the same will they try so this is time to wait and analyze the indian next purchase
 

volatile

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Do you know the cost of overhaul v/s purchase of new equipment and its integration?

Plus you are also ignoring the fact that we are short in f16s by atleast one and a half squadron (atleast 25 aircraft)

The original plan was 110 F16s to be upgraded to V standard in 5 to 8 years time ...
250 JF17s and Fifth generation to arrive in a decade's time ...

Now plan is not working due to xyz reason and PAF is improvising in the best possible way ...

Once it is confirmed that we are not getting any more F16s and no upgrades then J10 is the only choice we will have ...

However, do remember that having one time of aircraft (JF17s and J10s) has demerits of its own ... Both J10 and JF17 will be using same weapon system and it will be comparatively easy for an adversary to make countermeasures against our weapons whereas a mix of two different types of weapon systems will make the job adversary really difficult just like they are still wondering what did actually happened on 27th ...

My take is India is going for 5th generation earlier than planned and they will be increasing the order of Rafael ... They have already identified that both thunder and F16s are with the current network-centric warfare assets of Pakistan are more than a match to India's MKI and that the reason India celebrated even the escape of remaining the MKIs ...

Do remember what happened to IAF in 65 they took revenge in 1971 and the same will they try so this is time to wait and analyze the indian next purchase
I beg to differ in your analysis ,JF17 and J10 are different machines totally one being delta ,thrust vectoring other being decent 4th Gen fighter jet plus at any given day 36 J10s are much better force to work with instead of 72 Overhaull Mirages of 1960s ,for your argument related to cost Im sure any cost accountant like your self can figure out ,hint there is a reason Europe and US retire there planes
 

MIRauf

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He is talking about commonality of Weapons and Avionics, all Chinese ( JF-17 and J-10 ) If you can counter weapons/avionics on one then it be easy to counter the other, he is not comparing the body.

I do agree that J-10C be better option to the used Mirage-Vs.
 

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