• Saturday, January 18, 2020

The unification of the Arabian Peninsula?

Discussion in 'Arab Defence Forum' started by al-Hasani, Oct 29, 2014.

  1. Rakan.SA

    Rakan.SA FULL MEMBER

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    yes its true sufi are harmless... but america and the west are using them i hope they are aware of that.
    if you ever had a look at the RAND report written by jewish Cheryl Benard called "civil democratic islam".
    . you will see how they are defining the new islam. the islam they want. and how to achieve those goals. it was written years ago. and from what i see today they are accomplishing their goals. btw shes the wife of Zalmay Khalilzad
     
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  2. al-Hasani

    al-Hasani ELITE MEMBER

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    I have no idea about that bro. I just know that the Sufis in the Arab world, including those in KSA, Yemen, Iraq etc. are a harmless lot who love Islam and Prophet Muhammad (saws). If that is true then they will fail as they cannot decide how Muslims shall follow their religion.

    We are a bit off-topic too but never mind.:D
     
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  3. Metanoia

    Metanoia FULL MEMBER

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    I am not religious or anything but I believe that Sufism (barring the nutters like disco-maulvi) is a vital counterbalance when it comes to spirituality.
     
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  4. Al-Andalus

    Al-Andalus BANNED

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    On the day of the unification of Hijaz and Najd.



     
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  5. Khanate

    Khanate SENIOR MEMBER

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    If the states of Arabian peninsula did 'unite', they have a much better chance of succeeding than EU. However, the elephant in the room is system of governance and the distribution of power. "Elections" are not a silver bullet. Going by "elections" doctrine, Arabian peninsula becomes "tyranny of the majority". I'm looking at you Saudi guy. :enjoy:
     
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  6. The SC

    The SC ELITE MEMBER

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    It exists already and it is called the GCC, it is like some confederation of states..it is the best form that could be found due to the many existing royalties.. and it is working quite good..
     
  7. Al-Andalus

    Al-Andalus BANNED

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    Are you sure? Where is Yemen? The 50th largest country in the world with a population exceeding 30 million. One of the oldest nation states in the world and a country home to some of the oldest civilizations in the world. A key country in Arabia historically and on most other fronts.

    Did you know that Yemen is expected to become one of the most populous countries in the MENA region not far from now (2-3 generations)? In the top 30 worldwide. How can we ignore such a country?

    Likewise where is Jordan which is geographically a part of the Arabian Peninsula as well as most of Iraq, in particular Southern Iraq? Or even parts of Southern Sham (modern-day Syria, Palestine and occupied lands of Palestine).

    The GCC might be a close-knitted unit compared to most other regional political and economic unions not located in the West, however much more could be done in order to make the countries of the GCC even closer with each other. Economically, politically and militarily. Or something relatively simple such as a shared currency and better business regulations.

    There is also the question, which has been raised in this thread, of the system of governance and other challenges.

    However the most likely region to unite into a federal state, arguably in the entire world, is the Arabian Peninsula if you ask me. Which, if it was 1 country/federal state, would be the 7th biggest, one of the most populous and with one of the biggest economies so it would be no small feat. However the potential of such an union outweighs the eventual negatives. At least if you ask me. However I would likely think differently if I was, say, the Emir of Qatar.

    Eloquently put. Short and precise.

    Yes, the system of governance and the distribution of power is definitely a key question and a future challenge. Actually the fear of Saudi Arabian dominance is a legitimate one and something that at times is even a challenge today. However in my ideal federal state, based on a constitution that all (or at least most) inhabitants have voiced their agreement for, that should not be an issue. It might be an constitutional monarchic federal state or a republican federation. That would be up to the people.

    Of course in a federal state, which I believe is the most realistic outcome, each federal state, would have significant self-rule. Think about the US for instance. Or even the UK.

    Also in a perfect world the entire Arab world, from Morocco in the West near the Atlantic Ocean to Oman in the East near the Arabian Sea/Indian Ocean would become one federal state. It would, if ruled correctly, give many more benefits for the people and countries than the opposite. I believe in unity rather than fragmentation. I for instance see no reason why the Slavic countries in the Balkans could not unite again into a federal state. Would probably give them more benefits than currently. Make them stronger and give them a bigger say in the region. Today, what can a small Macedonia, Bosnia or Slovenia accomplish alone? Nothing. When Yugoslavia existed they had a much bigger clout. Same story with Scandinavia that I know well personally. I mean if Denmark, Sweden and Norway became an federal state. It would give them a much bigger say and not much would change for the negative.

    Anyway most people are too dumb for such projects to take place anywhere in the world currently. We need to reach a higher level of intelligence and sophistication as a species. Even the EU is falling apart. Who would have thought so, so shortly (relatively) after the horrors of WW1 and WW2 that killed almost 100 million people and devastated much of Europe? Not many, I guess. What are our conflicts in the MENA compared to that? Really not much. Let alone in the Peninsula where there are no conflicts expect for Yemen.

    Anyway eventually the people of the region will decide their own future, sooner rather than later. As everywhere else eventually. For good and bad.

    From this:

    [​IMG]

    to eventually reaching this, Insha'Allah.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    15 million views!


    There will only be one real USA. The United Arab States. USA, USA, USA.:lol:
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
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  8. Penguin

    Penguin ELITE MEMBER

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    USA > United States of Arabia. (Otherwise is is UAS)
     
  9. KediKesenFare

    KediKesenFare SENIOR MEMBER

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    This is just dreaming. It will never happen. For instance, Qataris don't like Saudis at all. One of the reason why they let Turkey & USA build a huge military base in Qatar is because they fear both neighbors, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

    Besides, Qataris are more elitist and secular. They would not accept any kind of clerical regime. In fact, the Qatari governmental decision-making process is the most secular one in the GCC. It is more similar to Turkey than to Saudi Arabia. Many people don't know this.

    However, Qataris also don't emphasize the Saudi version of Wahhabism.


    (...) Qataris privately distinguish between their “Wahhabism of the sea” as opposed to Saudi Arabia’s “Wahhabism of the land,” a reference to the fact that the Saudi government has less control of an empowered clergy compared to Qatar that has no indigenous clergy with a social base to speak of; a Saudi history of tribal strife over oases as opposed to one of communal life in Qatar, and Qatar’s outward looking maritime trade history. Political scientists Birol Baskan and Steven Wright argue that on a political level, Qatar has a secular character similar to Turkey and in sharp contrast to Saudi Arabia, which they attribute to Qatar’s lack of a class of Muslim legal scholars.[2] (...)
    Wahhabism vs. Wahhabism: Qatar Challenges Saudi Arabia

    Plus:

    Qatari-Bahraini War
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari–Bahraini_War

    Territorial disputes in the Persian Gulf
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_Persian_Gulf

     
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  10. Al-Andalus

    Al-Andalus BANNED

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    :lol:

    You are an Zaza Kurd who, with all due respect, has absolutely no clue about the Arab world let alone the Arabian Peninsula. What you are saying makes as much sense as the birth of an independent homeland for your 3 million Zaza Kurds somewhere in Turkey.

    I am absolutely certain that you have never met a single Qatari in your life let alone a single Saudi Arabian. Nor even visited this part of the world. Arabic? Forgot about it. It would be if I started blabbering about some supposed regional hatred in Turkey.

    If KSA and Qatar (including the people) "hated" each other they would not be key allies nor part of the GCC which is the most comprehensive and effective regional alliance in the Muslim world.

    There is no difference between Saudi Arabians living in the Eastern Province next door and the approximately 350.000 native Qataris. Both are Arabs belonging to the same ancient Arab tribes. There are no problems whatsoever between Saudi Arabians and Qatari people to people. Besides there are 25 times as many people in Riyadh as native Qataris in comparison so how exactly should 350.000 Qataris derail/decide the feature of a region home to 80 million people?

    Qatar is not a secular state. Not even close. Most of the laws in Qatar derive from Sharia Law although there is a civil law as in KSA and all GCC states. There is also a clerical class in Qatar.

    There is nothing called Wahhabism as nobody calls himself a "Wahhabi". If he does he has misunderstood something. It is merely the Hanbali fiqh which is 1 of the 4 recognized Sunni madahib. The other 3 being the Hanafi, Maliki and Shafi'i. There is more or less a full consensus about this among religious scholars and objective observers.

    Qatar's population is almost exclusively Hanbali (the exact same Hanbalis as in KSA) unlike KSA which is very diverse in this regard.
    Modern-day KSA is the cradle of Islam and where all major sects of Islam originated from, whether it be Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Sufism or Islam as a whole. Which is also why you can find all major Islamic sects indigenously in KSA. I do not know a single majority-Muslim country where you can find significant indigenous communities of Sunni Shafi'is, Hanbalis (including Salafis), Malikis, Hanafis, Sufis, Shia Twelvers, Ismailis and Zaydis in the various provinces and historical regions of KSA.

    Go troll somewhere else and mind your own business. This is an internal Arab matter and a thread for informed people not complete and utter ignorants that want their 2 minutes of fame by engaging in trolling or writing outright absurdities.

    I am tired of non-Arabs barking about topics that they have no clue about whatsoever, basically. Is it attention that you guys want from us or what?

    Check this out guys @alarabi @azzo @Bubblegum Crisis @Full Moon @الأعرابي

    Esteemed brothers, please educate the visiting Zaza here.

    Better should we give him some links to some of the largest Arab forums, military and non-military alike and show him the Saudi Arabian-Qatari hostiles displayed by Saudi Arabians and the few Qataris (a rare species after all)?:lol:

    No wonder that almost every Arab left this forum. Dealing with such geniuses on a daily basis can't be easy. When I of all people am starting to tire out, the challenges can best be described as monumental.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  11. KediKesenFare

    KediKesenFare SENIOR MEMBER

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    Wow, your super emotional reaction proves me right, I guess.
     
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  12. @xxx[{::::::::::::::::::>

    @xxx[{::::::::::::::::::> FULL MEMBER

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    Are you guys considering an union of all Arabic speaking countries as well? As the next step after unification of peninsula?
     
  13. KediKesenFare

    KediKesenFare SENIOR MEMBER

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    Some scientific papers I recommend on this issue:


    SEEDS OF CHANGE: COMPARING STATE-RELIGION RELATIONS IN QATAR AND SAUDI ARABIA
    Birol Baskan and Steven Wright
    Arab Studies Quarterly
    Vol. 33, No. 2 (Spring 2011), pp. 96-111
    Published by: Pluto Journals
    Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/41858653
    Page Count: 16
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/41858653?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    Royal Factionalism and Political Liberalization in Qatar
    Author: Kamrava, Mehran
    Source: The Middle East Journal, Volume 63, Number 3, Summer 2009, pp. 401-420(20)
    Publisher: Middle East Institute
    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/mei/mei/2009/00000063/00000003/art00004


    Political reform and the prospects for democratic transition in the gulf
    By Jill Crystal (08/07/2005) Working Paper
    http://fride.org/publication/220/po...ospects-for-democratic-transition-in-the-gulf

    Dorsey, James M., Wahhabism vs. Wahhabism: Qatar Challenges Saudi Arabia* (July 3, 2013). Available at SSRN: http://ssrn.com/abstract=2305485 or http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.2305485
     
  14. Al-Andalus

    Al-Andalus BANNED

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    Your inability to counter my factual post proves me right, not the other way around.

    I am not the least emotional. Do you think that your absurd post on some Pakistan forum will change the ground realities or anything for that matter?
    I am just shocked about the utter stupidity of your post. A 20 something year old Zaza who lives in Germany and who has never met a single Qatari let alone a single Saudi Arabian in his life, never visited that region of the world, who is as fluent in Arabic as in Papuan sign language and who is as well-read about the Arab world and its history as leading Arabist scholars and professors in the world.

    Anyway I am sorry to break this to you but the GCC is already the most comprehensive economic, military and political regional union in the Muslim world. All leaders of the GCC, none of which are elected and thus cannot fully speak for the peoples of the region, are working actively for more regional integration within the GCC. The citizens, according to all pools in the GCC, are heavily in support of further integration. Such a thing would be and is a logical outcome and the need of the hour. If it was mission impossible, such as the establishment of something simple as an Turkic League in comparison, the GCC would not exist and it would not have achieved what it has.

    Anyway as I said, I am not going to waste my time on ignorants, who moreover have nothing to do with internal Arab matters (as relevant as Papuans and Eskimos) however its difficult not to counter nonsense in an otherwise very serious and informative thread.

    Your presence here is only aimed at trolling and posting nonsense. Don't take people here for idiots. I know very well what your agenda is. Since when are 7 year old articles written by some Turk and an American worthy of anything? I prefer to actually look at the ground realities.

    There is the Arab League for that which will likely evolve into something along the likes of the EU once the necessary social and political changes in the Arab world arrive, which they eventually will. Several pan-Arab grassroots groups operate in all Arab countries. However this thread is about the Arabian Peninsula specifically. There are other regional blocs in the Arab world but none as powerful or effective as the GCC. None as likely to unite into a federal state (for instance) or integrate further profoundly in the near future.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  15. @xxx[{::::::::::::::::::>

    @xxx[{::::::::::::::::::> FULL MEMBER

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    Just looked at the map for Arab league. Odd that it has countries like Djibouti and Somalia which have a majority of non-Arab speakers. Anyways that's off-topic.