• Saturday, December 14, 2019

The unification of the Arabian Peninsula?

Discussion in 'Arab Defence Forum' started by al-Hasani, Oct 29, 2014.

  1. Dr.Thrax

    Dr.Thrax FULL MEMBER

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    While unification sounds like a good Idea, but as always, I'll go with religion, and the Mahdi will unite the MidEast. Nowadays most of the leaders are either dictators, incompetent, or both. And we don't have many leaders in the civilian population b/c those governments would find them to be a threat to their own rule. The situation is just like that in Syria. We don't have anyone that has any experience being a leader besides the dictator and his thugs. Anyways, the hadith says that will happen, but after that, crazy stuff will start happening such as a giant war (probably what we would call "World War 3"), and I'm not being crazy here, there are ahadith that state that Muslims and Christians will unite against Romans (quick history lesson, when the Roman Empire split into East and West, the Western portion fell quickly. When the Byzantine (eastern) portion fell, their leaders fled to the Holy Roman Empire. When that fell, those leaders fled to the Russian Empire. You with me here?). But after that, Muslims and Christians will fight each other. And then the Dajjal.
    Anyways, back to politics. Is reunification possible? Yes. Will it happen? Probably not under this current leadership/situation.
     
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  2. al-Hasani

    al-Hasani ELITE MEMBER

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    Bro, if we look past religion, then all that such initiatives require is wise leadership and a will from the people. Of course I have no illusions and I do believe that it was not a coincidence that the Arab world was divided as it was by the imperial powers of the time but this happened a long time ago.

    But ask yourself. Can any outside power really stop the GCC from uniting if the vast majority of people wanted this and there was a consensus and they could not be usually divided? Let alone other regions of the Arab world? What stops Syria from uniting with Lebanon for instance?

    The problem with us Arabs is that we do not know how great we could potentially be. We have wrong priorities. Let's admit it.

    I agree that there are few good leaders but not all of them are comparable to Al-Assad my friend. Of course all of them are looking after their thrones first but they are also not stupid. They need the support of people in the year 2014 to be safe of not losing their power. In the GCC this is actually done by serving the people and improving the countries on most fields. I have few bad things to say other than the social and political limitations and sometimes foreign policy. Yet no country is perfect.

    If people are not thinking about such projects, are unable to see their benefits let alone the leaders then this current unfortunate situation will continue I am afraid. Nor will praying safe us.

    Too many times people in the ME are letting their faith in the hands of God or external powers. Why not grab the opportunities yourselves? Europeans stopped this thinking a long time ago and look at them for the past 500 years?

    This is not an attack on religion (I am Muslim) but I hope that you get what I mean. I see this on many areas and it is counterproductive.

    Nobody but yourself is going to change your situation. Nobody but yourself is going to excel academically etc. Dedication, a goal and admitting errors is the way. All this can be combined with religion. Why not? What made the Muslim Caliphates great was not that kind of logic although it ultimately prevailed among the masses.

    Would the Arab world and you Syrians have struggled with removing Al-Assad if we were a military power? No.

    A believe in God (solely) will not remove poverty, improve literacy, improve scientific output, create jobs, a strong military etc. etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2014
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  3. Dr.Thrax

    Dr.Thrax FULL MEMBER

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    I get exactly what you mean. I'm just saying Allah is preventing it from happening. That's why Israel exists in the first place, for example. Most Arab nations were united against it when it first came into existence and it still won over all of us combined. This was back when it was weak, too. Both groups had equal skill, funding, and military equipment, Yet we still lost. That is the will of Allah.
    I'm not saying that reunification won't happen. But for some countries (such as Syria and Lebanon), it won't happen politically. Syria would need to invade for there to be reunification. But then it wouldn't be reunification, it would be annexation. You see, we tried this unification thing. There was the Federation of Arab Republics, that consisted of Syria, Egypt, and Libya, and Sudan was thinking about joining, but of course, it fell apart. There was the United Arab Republic (Syria, Egypt), and the Arab Federation (Iraq, Jordan.)
    Anyways, while the situation now is different, it will still fail in my opinion. The leaders cling to their chairs too much, and losing their authority would devastate them. Besides, all the GCC states rely on foreign support for a military, and a country that big would need it's own Military Industrial Complex. Yugoslavia, which was a smaller country, needed it. All I'm saying is the current countries are too dependent on oil and foreign support for there to be a stable country.
     
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  4. al-Hasani

    al-Hasani ELITE MEMBER

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    @Dr.Thrax

    For the past 200 years I would say that the Arab world has been weaker than in any other period in Islamic history and even for large parts of pre-Islamic times. Of course comparable to each time period of that time.

    Israel was created because we were in our weakest position back then and because Britain broke their promises. The wars are a study for itself but we know why they ended as they did. Most Arab countries (actually 80% or so) were not involved directly other than sending some volunteers as most of our militaries were very poor back then let alone modernized. The communication structure in the militaries were weak and the armies were led by dictators. etc etc. Israel on the other hand fought for their very own survival. The situations are not entirely comparable in my humble opinion.

    All this happened under dictatorships. Under failed Ba'athists that hijacked what I call common Arab brotherhood that every single Arab has. Which means that we hope for the best for fellow Arabs and Arab countries and work for similar wider goals and acknowledge all the things that bind us together (religion (s), culture, language, Islamic history, ancient Semitic pre-Islamic history), similar sufferings and ground realities, cuisine etc. - the list is long). What we saw under all of those leaders in the 1950's, 1960's and 1970's were in my eyes absurdities. Movements shaped by a bipolar world where capitalism (USA and the West) and communism and socialism (USSR) were against each other.

    The Arab countries ruled by monarchies were in the US/Western wagon and the secular republics in the USSR wagon mainly.

    I am talking about a movement that is coming from within the people. I simply do not believe that most Arabs are unaware of the problems that we are discussing now (ordinary people behind our computers) and the problems that a blind man can even see on the ground. We need to work together in order to change this reality. Find what binds us together.

    We know that GCC should become much more self-reliant which is also a work in progress but you also need to understand that the opportunities to start earlier were not taken (for whatever reasons) and also the pressure from the world powers to buy the best of the best weapons. Of course the US and the West are very much interested in selling weapons in billion worths of deals to the GCC. They probably pressure the rulers too. Goes for all Arab states.

    The US/West can remove any ruler almost everywhere on the planet if they really want. I am not anti-West by any means I am just saying the reality as we live in a cold world were power is the supreme deity for most.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A final comment here before I leave.

    Also what I hope is that we leave our silly sectarian divisions away for a while although I know it is very difficult when we look at what is going on in the Arab world were almost everyone is taking sides and sticking with his "side". Whether Sunni, Shia, Christian etc. we should not engage in this senseless cycle of violence. Why kill brother or sister based on something like this? The people that are the closest to you of anyone and the very few people (if not only) that you might could trust in a worst case scenario.

    It is my hope that Syrians and everyone else (Yemenis, Iraqis, Lebanese etc.) once the conflicts end that were on opposite sides of the wars will learn to make peace and from there on work for the betterment of their countries, regions etc. It is very easy for me to say so when so much blood as been shed but what is the alternative? Eternal revenge? An eternal cycle of violence?

    My hope is that you and @Syrian Lion for instance will be able to unite one day. This is exactly what foreigners want to see. Us fighting over stupid silly things instead of progressing.

    In fact this was always my viewpoint and what I was brought up with but since I joined PDF the hostile climate and the constant attacks on Arabs, KSA, Sunni Muslims etc. made me go in a defensive mode. Now outside of counter trolling on PDF I am a changed man on this front. I realized that creating silly differences is wrong even if you are attacked by people who want to create such differences. They want you to fall in their trap. This goes not only for Arab-Arab relations but for every relation.

    I can as a a Sunni Muslim (Shafi'i) have theological differences with a Saudi Arabian Ismaili, Zaydi or Shia Twelver but that's also it. Outside of those small differences I will treat him as I treat any other and want to be treated. If we all had this kind of outlook we would be much better off.

    This is how things work in the West and the US by large. You know this as well.

    Can you fell me bro?

    We should always think what we can do for our community and the world/humanity. I believe that this is very much in accordance to how I interpret some of the core values of Islam.

    Anyway thanks for the discussion. Always interesting to exchange opinions and be challenged on them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2014
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  5. black-hawk_101

    black-hawk_101 BANNED

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    They should concentrate more on a single type of Military having similar equipment being co-produced with EU-US (NATO).
     
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  6. Sheikh Rauf

    Sheikh Rauf SENIOR MEMBER

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    United arabian peninsula sounds really good.. one united arab army with one command a control center. same traffic laws, one visa system, more or less like EU
    But there are Hundred flows its gonna be extremly difficult for Arabs to be united atleast for next 50 years
    unless someone attack.
    even if they did look for example of iraq and syria, i have no doubt if isis attack on jordan that united arab will come to rescue, situation is not like 1967 war.
    we also have example of UAE united under one leadership..
    i really wish we united as muslim not arab or somthing els.
     
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  7. Indos

    Indos PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    What I can see is that only Muslim Brotherhood can make it happen. Democratizing Arab world is the first step to realize it, and then all MB branch become a winner in Arab politics, this is the moment where the possibility become so real. Too bad that MB in Egypt is doom now. It can only be taken by Islamist power, nationalist power will prevent it to happen.
     
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  8. rmi5

    rmi5 ELITE MEMBER

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    My 2 cents:
    -If you mean unification in form of a 1 single country, it will not happen.
    -If you mean a more strong union, with common currency, ... Yes, it will gradually happen.
     
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  9. Thəorətic Muslim

    Thəorətic Muslim SENIOR MEMBER

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    Sheikh walk me through this.

    GGC; Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, UAE. (Alphabetical order). All are run by Monarchies, albeit, all are related family members of each-other.

    Currently there's the unification of the GCC Military and Foreign Relations. Lets say, hypothetically, the governments of all 4 unify, what would be the organization? Would the Monarchies control their Provinces and elect a federal government? Confederacy? Or the EU model?

    Whats the talk on the streets and media?

    I see you have not understated the strong foreign opposition to any potential unification of the states. Appreciate it.
     
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  10. Selous

    Selous FULL MEMBER

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    Subhanallah...there aren't that many people in the world bro...I think you meant 80 million.

    In order for any unification to happen among Muslims the requirement is leaders with Taqwa...this is lacking.
     
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  11. al-Hasani

    al-Hasani ELITE MEMBER

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    Which is actually a work in progress bro but this is not done overnight. It takes a long time to built up a strong and somewhat independent military sector.

    Brother, I can sense from your posts that you are a sensible man and a good Muslim. At least this is my opinion.

    My philosophy on this department (Arab vs Muslim vs humanity etc.) is that all 3 are connected but you should always try to clean your own house first and unite before calling for greater projects. There cannot be any other solution. Please understand that this topic is a topic made for discussion and with this perspective in mind.

    I have to politely disagree here mate. I do not believe that replacing absolute or semi-absolute monarchies with MB like rulers is the solution. Neither nationalism nor islamism is needed here. It's about mutual interests. The locals are by far mostly Muslims and basically a similar people. So neither nationalism or islamism is in question here if you ask me.

    Bro, I was actually more thinking about a federal state with federalism and largely intact independence for each federal state (which would just be the current states already existing). Also such a union (of course a long way in the future) could be a democratic union with the monarchies only blaming a ceremonial role like in Europe or maybe they won't even be there? For instance ancient Yemen and Islamic Yemen was a kingdom all the time and that lasted for about 3000 years but suddenly abruptly ended 50 years ago when the last Imam of Yemen was removed in 1962 (Northern Yemen) and the other rulers (various) in Southern Yemen. In fact Southern Yemen even became a communist country at one point.

    Not many know it but Southern Yemen was communistic from 1967-1990.

    South Yemen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Your second point I fully agree with and we see this for each year that goes by. I think that all GCC countries understand that their faith and future is interconnected.

    I am not a Sheikh bro.:lol:

    You forgot Oman my friend. Many people forget that lovely country. It has a very sane leadership and policy.

    As I wrote earlier in this thread (I do understand that not all bother to read my long rants, lol) then I personally would prefer federalism. Monarchies could either still have a say in politics or be plainly ceremonial. I of course hope for a more active populace and thus a "people's rule", real elections etc.

    The EU is a good model although GCC is much, much smaller and less complex.

    Well, people have discussed such issues but so far most people are satisfied with GCC as it is. My feeling is that most would like more unity in the GCC to make it even more easier for people.

    Well, that's evident. I have no illusions.;)

    :lol:

    Yes, I just went berserk there. Yes, I meant 80 million. In fact I noticed it yesterday but I cannot edit it now so.:coffee:
     
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  12. Takaavar

    Takaavar FULL MEMBER

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    Oman won't join, it's a completely different country. The same thing will be true about Yemen sooner or later.
     
  13. Hassan Al-Somal

    Hassan Al-Somal FULL MEMBER

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    I don't know about a secular unity and how it will come about, but I know one unity that has been promised and coming: The advent of Imamul Mahdi (ra). Due to the huge tribulation (fitna) within Umma today, particularly the on-going tragedy in greater Sham (Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Western Iraq, and perhaps Jordan) it is clear his imminence is very near. Therefore, unity among the people of the Arabian Peninsula and in the larger Umma is coming.
     
  14. al-Hasani

    al-Hasani ELITE MEMBER

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    While it is easy to just look at the current events in a religious light we must also remember that changes must come from within. What is happening in the Muslim world is largely self-made. What you see in Syria, Iraq etc. is a combination of dozens factors all ranging from genocidal dictators unwilling to step down from their thrones at any cost, regional and international meddling that has proved in many cases to be harmful, people misusing Islam and creating terrorism under the disguise of Islam, mistrust, frustration, neglect etc.

    For each day that goes by I believe that democracy is the solution to most of the problems. I believe that Islam and democracy are compatible. How so? Well you got millions upon millions of Muslims living in democratic states yet they are perfectly free to practice their religion.

    Anyway welcome to the forum. From your name I gather that you are a Somali. Good to see a Somalian brother. We once had one here called @Dino but he has disappeared.
     
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  15. Hassan Al-Somal

    Hassan Al-Somal FULL MEMBER

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    Thanks Akhi Al-Hasani for welcoming me.
     
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