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The U.S. defeat in Afghanistan is worse than the Soviet failure...how has this happened?

Gomig-21

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The two decades of combat, the one trillion dollars spent, the 100,000 troops deployed to subdue Afghanistan, the high-tech gadgets, artificial intelligence, cyberwarfare, Reaper drones armed with Hellfire missiles and GBU-30 bombs and the Glbobal Hawk drones with high-resolution cameras, Special Operations Command composed of elite rangers, SEALs and air commandos, black sites, torture, electronic surveillance, satellites, attack aircraft, mercenary armies, infusions of millions of dollars to buy off and bribe the local elites and train an Afghan army of 350,000 that has never exhibited the will to fight, failed to defeat a guerrilla army of 60,000 that funded itself through opium production and extortion in one of the poorest countries on earth.
That pretty much sums it up, and there's really no way to argue that main point of the article. The Taliban basically bought their time for 2 decades and know the country better than any one else, including the ANA and the US, the former's lack of will or reason to fight notwithstanding.

Even though Trump signed the bill that would withdraw the US from Afghanistan, Biden will have to shoulder this epic failure of losing the entire description above to the Taliban in just 8 days. Mostly because of his comments on Kabul having no eminent danger of falling to the Taliban so quickly just a few days ago. Making a bold comment like that and then watching it slap him in the face is a political disaster and a major failure on his part and his advisors.

That's the other part which discredits the idea that there was some pact between the US and the Taliban that what has happened is some coordinated, backdoor handover. Had that been the case, he would never have made such a horrible and miscalculated claim like he did. The possibility of it being a major intelligence failure is very plausible, considering its record in the last 2 decades plus. But even so, he can't throw the US' intelligence under the bus and let them shoulder the blame as that would create a major distrust between the intel community and the administration.

Waiting to see if Biden makes some statement or announcement. He's going to have to face the music at some point.
 

American Pakistani

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:lol: everyone played a "double game" with everyone in Afghanistan.
Pakistan is no angel, they are playing games with the Chinese as well. As for India and the nuclear deal, there was a general Bush era optimism that India would emulate China and become a major economic force with an immense appetite for energy and hence the nuclear deal- that economic miracle didn't transpire, and the nuclear deal is now not worth the brouhaha it inspired years ago .
Pakistan did not played double game imo. Pakistan helped America against aq and groups. All top members were arrested and handed to America including Pakistani nationals. Once pakistan saw American double game with nuclear deal and do more crap, along with no help with Indian occupied Kashmir, Pakistan became skeptical.

Pakistan is not playing any double game with China either. Pakistan has openly supported China as much and with all little power it had/have.
 

Khanate

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Pakistan is no angel, they are playing games with the Chinese as well.


This is what misplaced expectations look like.

US expected Pakistan to have its people killed and maimed, destroy its economy and infrastructure only to impose India on us who used Afghanistan's soil to bleed Pakistan. It is not a secret that India trained and funded BLA and TTP terrorism in Pakistan. Blame Obama who never cared for anything other than his own narrow interests.


China? They are investing in Pakistan and that is all we care about.

No one cares about what US-China has got going.



Is there a parallel in Afghanistan? You bet. It is Pakistan where the Taliban was able to rest, recoup, recruit, and re-arm.


Funny, I recall Mullah Omar living near a US military base in Afghanistan.

How is what you are saying different than what happened under US watch in Afghanistan where BLA and TTP rested, recouped, recruited, trained, re-armed and was funded by India? That is the blind spot in US foreign policy.
 

CrazyZ

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I am personally stunned by the rapid collapse of the ANA and the former regime. Not surprised by the ultimate outcome just expected the ANA to last much longer. They were more inept and corrupt then expected.

Biden made the right call. If the idiots in the former regime could not hold the a ragtag Taliban force at bay then they deserve to be exiled in shame. USA just took far too long to make this call.
 

Clutch

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U.S. Ambassador has left the Embassy carrying the American Flag

August 15, 2021 by IWB







NEW: US AMBASSADOR HAS LEFT THE EMBASSY IN #KABUL. He and the flag are at the airport, per @CBSNews.
— Ruffini (@EenaRuffini) August 15, 2021
Ambassador is at the airport with the official embassy flag.

Sounds like the situation is deteriorating.
That plane better be packed FULL of h7man beings.

— Tracey (@wilddogranch) August 15, 2021
IT’S OVER! ALL FOR NOTHING, Americans Escape From Kabul Embassy!
This is the moment US diplomats are seen being evacuated from Kabul just hours before Taliban forces stormed the Afghan capital.

See also VIDEO: "A man carrying a rifle is followed & threatened by a mob of antifa after the Christian worship concert last night. He calls police
In a stark scene mirroring that of Saigon at the end of the Vietnam war, a US Air Force helicopter was seen taking off from the US Embassy earlier today.


The Chinook helicopter was seen taking to the skies above the city — just like in 1975 when a US Marine helicopter was seen evacuating embassy staff from Vietnamese capital.
Smoke was also seen rising from near to the US embassy earlier today as security staff work to burn any important documents, including CIA information, or material that could be used ‘in propaganda efforts’. The US flag is soon expected to be lowered, signalling the official closure of the embassy.

It comes as the US steps up its evacuation of Kabul with Taliban fighters quickly moving in ‘from all sides’. Shots were heard on the outskirts of the capital earlier today, much earlier than first anticipated, before fighters poured into the city.
US Intelligence officials had expected Kabul to hold out for three months, while UK ministers were hoping they had until the end of the month.
 

IceCold

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the 2011 Salala attack was the expression of the same frustration
So who got Court marshalled in this episode? As far as public knowledge goes no one. Destroying a soviet warship loading off weapons and hitting a check post of supposedly an ally are two very different things, for one Soviets were never your ally not even supposedly, but we were. If anything it was naked aggression by you.
Why didnt Pakistan retaliate with its Airforce
Dont forget who was in the government back than, the famous Mr.10%
Even when so called OBL raid too place, those with knowledge say that PAF went up to intercept and were told to back off.
 

zzzz

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Remember how many years USSR survived after loss in afghanistan? US is on the clock now.
You all keep mixing things up. The 'loss' in Afghanistan (collapse of pro-Soviet government) happened after breakup of USSR (not before as popular myth tells) and after new government of Russia decided to stop financing Afghani government.

The loss of US is happening right away before even their troops are fully withdrawn.
 

VCheng

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The death blow to the American empire will, as McCoy writes, be the loss of the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. This loss will plunge the United States into a crippling, and prolonged depression. It will force a massive contraction of the global military footprint.
The ugly, squalid face of empire, with the loss of the dollar as the reserve currency, will become familiar at home. The bleak economic landscape, with its decay and hopelessness, will accelerate an array of violent and self-destructive pathologies including mass shootings, hate crimes, opioid and heroin overdoses, morbid obesity, suicides, gambling and alcoholism.
The state will increasingly dispense with the fiction of the rule of law to rely exclusively on militarized police, essentially internal armies of occupation, and the prisons and jails, which already hold 25 percent of the world’s prisoners although the United States represents less than 5 percent of global population.
Prices will dramatically rise because of the steep increase in the cost of imports. Wages in real terms will decline.
The devaluation of Treasury bonds will make paying for our massive deficits onerous, perhaps impossible. The unemployment level will climb to depression era levels.
The wholesale surveillance, the abolition of basic civil liberties, militarized police authorized to use indiscriminate lethal force, the use of drones and satellites to keep us monitored and fearful, along with the censorship of the press and social media, familiar to Iraqis or Afghans, will define America.
I love the way he casually uses the definitive term "WILL" so freely to make all these dire predictions, as if he has a magic crystal ball or something. :D

(and all those who thanked the OP. :lol: )
That fable is not important any longer because there is a new fable: War on China
There is no war on China, nor will there be. China and USA remain each others' biggest trading partners for a reason: it serves national interests on both sides to work things out.
 

dbc

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So who got Court marshalled in this episode?
Court marshal? Why should anyone be court marshalled? US /NATO/ ISAF called in air support in response to heavy machine gun and mortar fire from the Pakistani outpost.

This was one of the key point on which the ISAF investigation by Brigadier General Stephen Clark and the Pakistan Army findings published by ISPR agreed upon. The disagreement between the US and Pakistan was on the appropriate response - US / NATO/ ISAF responded by returning fire while the Pakistani’s expected a phone call and a polite request to cease fire.

This wasn’t the first time Pakistani border security forces got trigger happy with US / NATO/ ISAF.
Between 2008 and 2011 four other similar incidents resulted in the death of 18 Pakistani soilders.

So whose fault is it really? Why did US/NATO/ISAF come under routine fire while in pursuit of militants near Pakistan border?
 

IceCold

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Court marshal? Why should anyone be court marshalled? US /NATO/ ISAF called in air support in response to heavy machine gun and mortar fire from the Pakistani outpost.

This was one of the key point on which the ISAF investigation by Brigadier General Stephen Clark and the Pakistan Army findings published by ISPR agreed upon. The disagreement between the US and Pakistan was on the appropriate response - US / NATO/ ISAF responded by returning fire while the Pakistani’s expected a phone call and a polite request to cease fire.

This wasn’t the first time Pakistani border security forces got trigger happy with US / NATO/ ISAF.
Between 2008 and 2011 four other similar incidents resulted in the death of 18 Pakistani soilders.

So whose fault is it really? Why did US/NATO/ISAF come under routine fire while in pursuit of militants near Pakistan border?
Than your original comparison of the two events is invalid because if i take your word at face value than the events in Vietnam where Russian boat was destroyed had nothing to do with this because apparently the later had a nod from the higher ups and it was carried out as the chances of a retaliatory strike or response was none in our case while it would not have been the same from USSR hence the court marshal.
As for whose fault is that? History is there to judge as it stands out, where does Afghanistan stands now? Will there be any questions asked about the trillions US spent? What about the loss of US lives, forget anyone else?
The only problem was you guys were never willing to accept what Pakistan have been telling you. For all your failures you looked for someone to blame and that blame was always upon Pakistan. All you needed was some introspection. At the end of the day after nearly two decades of war and bloodshed, you repeated history once again by abruptly leaving the mess for the regional countries specially Pakistan.
 

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