• Tuesday, December 12, 2017

Featured 'The System'-by WAJsal

Discussion in 'Pakistani Siasat' started by WAJsal, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. SekrutYakhni

    SekrutYakhni BANNED

    Messages:
    3,289
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Ratings:
    +1 / 1,123 / -12
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Canada
    Yakhni suggests people wake up to this reality and literally hang them both.

    The good ole times of patriotic stories and "holiness" are long gone. In addition to that, Yakhni firmly believes in some corruption and printed money. It accelerates innovation provided they WORK too!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. I.R.A

    I.R.A SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    7,961
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2014
    Ratings:
    +11 / 8,549 / -3
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Your blaming the ignorant public is not just ................

    Neither would be the 2018 elections.


    Why nobody is mentioning the innovators of "Nazria e Zaroorat" ? Shouldn't they be the first ones to get hanged.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  3. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    14,683
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2015
    Ratings:
    +32 / 26,782 / -9
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    Canada
    Are you a fan of Janet Yellen or something?
     
  4. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

    Messages:
    16,513
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Ratings:
    +101 / 26,954 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    I hear you - read you, that is - with some trepidation and sombre anticipation. Your reputation as a contrarian is well-established and this prescription fits in well. Nevertheless, I will distance myself and hope, perhaps against hope, that a more placid course of events will take place.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  5. PoliticalStagePk

    PoliticalStagePk BANNED

    New Recruit

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Ratings:
    +0 / 37 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Instead of blowing his own horn Shahbaz Sharif should do something concrete for dengue elimination: Moonis Elahi !

    [​IMG]

    Senior leader Pakistan Muslim League Moonis Elahi in a press statement released in Lahore today strongly criticized the Punjab government for the dengue outbreak in the province and especially in the provincial metropolis. He held Shahbaz Sharif personally responsible for the deaths caused due to dengue virus in the province. He accused the Punjab chief minister of being too occupied in blowing his own horn when he should have been actually doing something concrete to eradicate the dengue menace. Historians will remember the self-proclaimed Khadim e Ala as one ranting and raving chief minister of Punjab whose favorite pastime was his own trumpet blowing while the people were left to suffer at the hands of poverty, unemployment, criminal elements and now the dengue mosquito, said Moonis Elahi.

    He called upon Shahbaz Sharif to quit his cheap one man show politics and provide the common man with immediate medical relief against the killer virus at government hospitals including the free supply of platelets and medicines for the distressed. Moonis Elahi stated that Shahbaz Sharif government had billions to spend on Jaati Umra expressway but no money for dengue treatment. Strongly criticizing the sasti roti scam, Ashyana scheme, yellow cab stunt, Moonis Elahi said that Shahbaz government had done nothing for the people except launch bogus schemes and cash upon projects launched by the PML government of Chaudhry Parvez Elahi.

    He further accused Shahbaz Sharif of missing no opportunity of self praise and projection while in reality he had not even bothered to appoint a full time provincial health minister since 2008. Dengue spread in the previous years should have been enough for the government to get going this year for its eradication but what came out were negligence, incompetency and sheer indifference to public problems in Punjab, stated Moonis Elahi. He further stated that his party would expose the real faces and actual causes behind the spread of dengue disease in the coming session of the Punjab Assembly. We want to bring the actual culprits responsible for dengue outbreak in Punjab in the dock, Moonis Elahi stated at the conclusion of his statement.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. Shah01

    Shah01 FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    197
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Ratings:
    +3 / 160 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The discussion has moved on a bit and in a good direction. I will try to reply as I go through the thread:

    The above sums up everything the vast majority needs. As I have said before even in the west the vast majority is only interested in the basic necessities as well as fair and swift justice.

    I agree with this. One has to look at the demographics and as I explained untill we vote following our cast/creed/chaudary/relative we will only have a technical democracy and it will carry on like this.

    I have highlighted this fact many times but I guess it will be a long time before people start to realize this. Civil servants are the key as they draft legislation (or take part in it), day to day running/administration. So as long the common folks are there to amass wealth while they are appointed then no point in discussing issues....

    Couldn't agree more but as they say in Urdu (daal mein kuch kala hai but here daal hi kali hai). So it will take a generation before any true progress.

    Partially but these are same people/nation, corruption was there and it was frowned upon but now it has become the norm (progress nonetheless)....

    There is no national aim. Everyone is there to amass as much as they can while there are at it. Such attitude doesn't help with developing a nation.

    What will happen after the 5 years?
    If by some miracle we get all the right bureaucrats and honest to God leaders it will still take much longer than 5 years to fix and get the wheel rolling. One has to understand the problems and they are not on the surface but deep rooted unless you are planning to sacrifice half the nation this won't happen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. Azlan Haider

    Azlan Haider SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,631
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Ratings:
    +57 / 5,463 / -11
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    What is the "ideology" of Pakistan anyway ??

    The term ‘Pakistan Ideology’ (Nazriah-e-Pakistan’) was nowhere in Jinnah's speeches before or after the creation of Pakistan in 1947. Prof. Khurshid Ahmed, one of the leading members of Jamat e Islami (JI), is said to have first coined the term ‘Nazriah-e-Pakistan’ in 1962 in "response" to Ayub Khan's (a Dictator) policy of evolving Pakistan's nationhood in accordance with progressive dictates of Jinnah. Jamat e Islami, of course, was opposed to Jinnah's vision of a progressive and modern Muslim State, and that's why it had opposed Pakistan Movement during 1940's. JI had it's own vision. JI suggested that Pakistan Ideology should be squarely based on policies constructed on the teachings of the Qu’ran and Sunnah and should strive to turn Pakistan into an Islamic State.


    And if you are talking about the "damage" caused by Gen. Zia ul Haq (a close compatriot of Jamat e Islami), I am no fan of Zia, but I think it is Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who deserves the blame .. It was during his regime that religion became the official legitimizing strategy for all political manoeuvres. In a frenzy to break the momentum of the PNA-led movement, numerous Islamisation measures erupted. Shariat laws were introduced; gambling, horse racing, and alcohol were banned. The PPP manifesto was duly amended, making Friday the weekly holiday, introducing Quranic studies as mandatory for all students, establishing Ulema (clerical) academies and so forth . These moves established the PPP’s dedication to the cause of Islam, which became Bhutto’s most powerful defence to fight the PNA in their own battlefield.


    He was the one who made Islam the state religion and set pre-requisites for the head of state to be Muslim.... One of Bhutto’s last desperate bids to buy off religious parties agitating for his overthrow with U.S. backing was to declare the Ahmadiyya Community non-Muslim in 1974 ... The concept of "constitutional kafir" was introduced for the first time, thereby making "official adoption" of sectarianism (as a state policy)...


    In 1976, ZAB controversially appointed General Zia-ul-Haq the Chief of Army Staff in another move to appease the JI (of whom Zia was a close compatriot) ... Zia ul Haq was the Pakistan army's most junior Lt. General when Bhutto selected him to be Chief of the Army Staff.... Later regretting his choice, ZAB told the Supreme Court (which sent him to the gallows): "I appointed a Chief of Army belonging to Jamaat-i-Islami and the result is before us." ... Bhutto institutionalized mullahism through constitution, and then he appointed an Army Chief belonging to JI .. !! Who is the 'actual' culprit behind the "damage" then ?? Zia, or the "politician" Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto ?







    Now coming to the second part of your statement, "democracy, on the other hand, has never been given a proper chance to grow and prosper", the question arises who was "originally" responsible for this ? Politicians or Military ?

    Once Pakistan was created, Jinnah reportedly tried to open the membership of Muslim League(ML) to all citizens of Pakistan (irrespective of religion), or alternatively dissolve it (as it had achieved its goal) .. Unfortunately he was unsuccessful ... Jinnah, who had been a Bombayite, had no similar roots in Karachi (the new Capital) .. Time and again he was made aware that he was an outsider. Similarly, many of his close associates (like Liaquat Ali Khan, Ibrahim Ismail Chundrigar etc. ) had no roots in Pakistan ... This was one of the reasons the ML didn't want to hold general elections in Pakistan... The first General Elections were held in Pakistan in 1970 (i.e. 23 years after the creation of Pakistan), whereas, In India, the first General Elections were held in 1951-52 ..


    After the death of Jinnah in 1948, there was not a single person in ML who could effectively replace Jinnah as the undisputed leader of the ML or Pakistan. This was when "Islam" was brought into politics by the Leaguers for the first time (to be used as a political tool) .. "Prostitution of Islam for political ends" as Iskander Mirza described it later !!

    One very important (but often ignored) development was the 1954 provincial elections held in East Pakistan .. Elections were due in 1951, but the ML used delay tactics (though it didn't help them in the long run). The elections resulted in a landslide victory for the socialists and nationalists i.e. United Front which won 228 seats in a House of 309 (including nine reserved seats for women). On the other hand, the Muslim League, the party in power directly or indirectly ever since 1937, managed to get only 7 seats ... This heralded the rise of Bengali Nationalists .. But On May 30, just after two months, the ministry was dismissed and direct governor’s rule was imposed.... Now ML knew that in case general elections were held, the Bengali Nationalists would come to power in the center as well (as Bengalis formed the "Majority"), and the political hegemony of ML would be over ...

    This was when ML decided to use "Islam" as a political tool against the socialists of East Pakistan ... And those Mullahs who had openly opposed Jinnah and proudly rejected Jinnah's "unIslamic" ideals, were invited to join ML (see Munir Report of 1954 for details) ....... The country was named "Islamic Republic" in 1956 ... We were the first one in the world to add prefix "Islamic" to our republican status .. ... Elections were further delayed by ML .. In 1957 most of the detractors came together in the left-wing and secular National Awami Party (NAP) and were confident that the party was in a good position to win the most seats in the promised direct elections (that were to be held in 1958). But then first Martial Law was imposed in the country in late 1958 by the "elected" president of ML who invited Army to take over hoping that this would keep Bengalis (and others) permanently away from the corridors of power, as they had almost no representation in the predominantly Punjabi Army of Pakistan ... (But this proved to be "catastrophic" in the long run ... No amount of "Islam" or "military force" could hold Nationalist Bengalis for long ... And in 1971, we paid the price of "selfish" policies adopted by the ML) ..





    It was the Muslim League power hungry politicians who didn't give democracy a proper chance to grow and prosper in the newly born state of Pakistan. Army came in much later (invited by Muslim Leaguers).

    It's always easy (in fact fashionable) to bash Pak Army and hold it responsible for all our ills ... Politicians are equally (if not more) responsible ...



    Furtive Fallacy and Casual Oversimplification, but overall a nice write-up. Will get back to You on other points (esp. the "Democracy" part) when I have time.

    Regards
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
    • Thanks Thanks x 6
    • Positive Rating Positive Rating x 1
  8. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    14,683
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2015
    Ratings:
    +32 / 26,782 / -9
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    Canada
    Absolutely fascinating read. You sir should write a book at some point if you haven't already.

    @Joe Shearer
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  9. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

    Messages:
    16,513
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Ratings:
    +101 / 26,954 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    I am an 'arms' -length' admirer of his. He is extremely hard-working in his research, but in my personal opinion, and this is just my opinion, he hijacks the facts to make his patriotic cases. For that reason, I do not get into discussions with him, because he will never admit a mistake, either his own, or a corporate one.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  10. Chauvinist

    Chauvinist FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    836
    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Ratings:
    +2 / 2,167 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Name a person who admits his mistake...at least when its the matter of patriotic cases as you said.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  11. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

    Messages:
    16,513
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Ratings:
    +101 / 26,954 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    I do. Check my record. Particularly check with @chauism about the discussion we had about the Indo-China conflict of 1962.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  12. Chauvinist

    Chauvinist FULL MEMBER

    Messages:
    836
    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Ratings:
    +2 / 2,167 / -0
    Country:
    Pakistan
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Buhahhahahahha I knew you'd say this I was about to write that don't quote your name..Its time to leave the planet.
     
  13. Nilgiri

    Nilgiri ELITE MEMBER

    Messages:
    14,683
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2015
    Ratings:
    +32 / 26,782 / -9
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    Canada
    I have seen joe admit his mistakes/errors a lot more than people (Esp those that call him doggedly stubborn and blind etc) give him credit for.

    You just have to clearly illustrate the evidenced based logic. He has given up sheer faith for that very reason.

    However not everything can be illustrated as such, hence the scope for debate and engagement.
     
  14. Joe Shearer

    Joe Shearer PROFESSIONAL

    Messages:
    16,513
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Ratings:
    +101 / 26,954 / -0
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    Is it untrue? Yes or no.
     
  15. punit

    punit SENIOR MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,978
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Ratings:
    +1 / 5,044 / -55
    Country:
    India
    Location:
    India
    how about : Check both the sentences, and try to make sense of each of them ?
     
Similar Threads
  1. EagleEyes
    Replies:
    72
    Views:
    4,815
Loading...