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'The System'-by WAJsal

The Accountant

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Ultimately every ruler will have privilege to make laws whether democratic or dictator. If a dictator makes rules, its your luck. Whereas in democracy a rule is discussed in public, figuratively implemented and practiced before it is brought into the parliament, because people are convinced to do so. After elections and formation of government, that thing is literally and formally made a law. A dictator is void of this facility. He will bring a law that majority will resist resulting in bloodshed. Remember Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him had minimum bloodshed in the history of revolutions.

Now if you have an issue with a law passed in a democratic system by the people, the blame is not on democracy or the people but effort and ability of yours to convince the people otherwise.

Coming to Islamic laws mentioned in the holy Quran, certain laws were suspended by Umer R.A. There was no uproar in public upon this action of Hazrat Umer, because people were aware of the reasons upon which he suspended those laws. This ability to judge laws comes from education and awareness. Why should only few people have that knowledge and not everyone. Dedicated team of specialists of Islamic matters would rule and others would follow them blindly, there's no such concept in Islam that some people will have knowledge and they will rule. Knowledge has to be for everyone and it requires hard work.
Man again you are going on the wrong track ... First makeup your mind, are you in favour of democracy or are you in favour of Islamic rule as both are contradictory ...

Dmocracy gave people the right to make laws contradictory to Islam, for example Allah is announcing war on people involved in financial business but our democracy passed the law and made it halal both by elected people and by dictator Zia-ul-Haq ...

So if you need Islamic rule than power of people to make laws should be limited and within the boudries defined by Quran.
 

ahmadnawaz22

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I beg to Disagree on the core root that you pointed out in this article about The Mess Pakistan is in.
Yes The Elite of Pakistan are Corrupt Dis functional and Inefficient But that is the state of whole country. These Problems are flowing From Downward toward the Uppermost Echelons.
Politicians are not a constant, Neither Are the Army Generals or Civil Servants of Bureaucracy. They are changing with time. But the lot they come from is the General Public. And thats where the problem is.
Educational Institutes, Hospitals, Business Organizations, Police Stations, Courts, Tech Shops, Markets, and so on.
99% of people are unwilling to work. Unless they are strictly supervised by superior Authority. Thats the culture.
People are happily accepting this culture of Relationships oriented Work Preference instead of doing all their work efficiently.
Educational institutes where their is no personal interests of the Organizers such as government institutes are a mess because nobody their gives a damn, (the people running it). While Owners of Private institutes are so hell bent on Sucking as much money as possible from clients compared to cost of services provided by them.
same is the case of Manufacturing concerns like Automobiles Machinery etc.
I can go on and on and on but the truth is you cant even get your car repaired from a road side mechanic until you are standing right on top even that uneducated layman will loot you by not performing his duties as he is supposed to be.
We should all start doing our own work efficiently without any need of over watch no matter what work we are doing thats the only change Pakistan needs
Our People need a hard time and learn to become civilized in God knows which way possible. Rest are just Wishful thinking.
You will never get active politicians, Doctors, Scientists, Generals, Civil Servants out of this Messy National Pool of People with these Cultural Values.
 

Salik

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Man again you are going on the wrong track ... First makeup your mind, are you in favour of democracy or are you in favour of Islamic rule as both are contradictory ...

Dmocracy gave people the right to make laws contradictory to Islam, for example Allah is announcing war on people involved in financial business but our democracy passed the law and made it halal both by elected people and by dictator Zia-ul-Haq ...

So if you need Islamic rule than power of people to make laws should be limited and within the boudries defined by Quran.
Sir are you saying that no one has right to make rules because rules are already made in the holy Quran. Are you from the people who said, "Arbitration belongs to God alone"?

I ask again, how do you see the famous cancellation of thief's punishment by Umer R.A. That punishment is 'clearly' mentioned in the holy Quran, and what about the public who was ok with this act.
 

The Accountant

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Sir are you saying that no one has right to make rules because rules are already made in the holy Quran. Are you from the people who said, "Arbitration belongs to God alone"?

I ask again, how do you see the famous cancellation of thief's punishment by Umer R.A. That punishment is 'clearly' mentioned in the holy Quran, and what about the public who was ok with this act.
First of all rules can be made in agreement with the law but not contradictory with the law ... Temporary suspension of a selected law is possible like the case you was referring was at the time of shortage of food the guy was hungry ... You are comparing it with the people who allowed interest which is extreme .. Allah has ordered to wage war against the people taking interest
 

Salik

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First of all rules can be made in agreement with the law but not contradictory with the law ... Temporary suspension of a selected law is possible like the case you was referring was at the time of shortage of food the guy was hungry ... You are comparing it with the people who allowed interest which is extreme .. Allah has ordered to wage war against the people taking interest
You are related to the field of finance, do you think if we remove interest, the economy will collapse and we will be like that hungry guy?
 

The Accountant

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You are related to the field of finance, do you think if we remove interest, the economy will collapse and we will be like that hungry guy?
Who said that economy will collapse infact as per modern economic theories it will flourish leaps and bounds ... Interest promotes saving and discourage investment whereas zakat minus interest means you are pushing people to do as much investment as possible infact people will try to find out jobless people who can do business from the money and can earn him profit ...

I am a practical example, I have spare money but can't put it in interest based instrument and seaching for a trustworthy man that can do some business with me money ... THis is a win-win situation ,,, jobless will get easy access to capital with no burden of repayment in case business makes loss whereas savings will be immediately put to investment as otherwise people will be penalized in the form of Zakat ...
 

Salik

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Who said that economy will collapse infact as per modern economic theories it will flourish leaps and bounds ... Interest promotes saving and discourage investment whereas zakat minus interest means you are pushing people to do as much investment as possible infact people will try to find out jobless people who can do business from the money and can earn him profit ...

I am a practical example, I have spare money but can't put it in interest based instrument and seaching for a trustworthy man that can do some business with me money ... THis is a win-win situation ,,, jobless will get easy access to capital with no burden of repayment in case business makes loss whereas savings will be immediately put to investment as otherwise people will be penalized in the form of Zakat ...
I didn't ask how will economy behave in interest free system. I am asking how painful this shifting will be from interest based to interest free economy, both at micro and macro levels?
 

The Accountant

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I didn't ask how will economy behave in interest free system. I am asking how painful this shifting will be from interest based to interest free economy, both at micro and macro levels?
It will be difficult task but if this is the order of Allah and if we are momin then we have to obey the command otherwise we are not momin ... (Kindly note i have specifically used the word momin and not muslim)
 

Salik

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It will be difficult task but if this is the order of Allah and if we are momin then we have to obey the command otherwise we are not momin ... (Kindly note i have specifically used the word momin and not muslim)
Layman's answer from a professional, including emotional blackmailing.

Sir, I want complete analysis of how will removal of interest affect Pakistan's economy in and out.

Till then I am happy with 'Umer's Law'.
 

The Accountant

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Layman's answer from a professional, including emotional blackmailing.

Sir, I want complete analysis of how will removal of interest affect Pakistan's economy in and out.

Till then I am happy with 'Umer's Law'.
First if all this is not umer's law ... Keep believing you are in omer's law ..

When i specify the impact that economy is going to improve due to increase consumption, increased investment, increased access to capital and increased economic activity then you said you need to know how painful it is ... I responded that it is painful but we have to do it ...

First of all, all your transformations are painful ... What do you think people were not doing before banks ? Banks were established only a century ago but people were living well even before that ...

You need to know practical steps then we have to restructure economy based on real implementation islamic banking system (current islamic banking system is only half islamic) ...

Basic banking system will be based on sharing of business risk by investor and businessman and both should share the real actual profits ...

Now if you want to really understand it then post some specific questions ... Otherwise i cant teach you finance and economics
 

Salik

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First if all this is not umer's law ... Keep believing you are in omer's law ..

When i specify the impact that economy is going to improve due to increase consumption, increased investment, increased access to capital and increased economic activity then you said you need to know how painful it is ... I responded that it is painful but we have to do it ...

First of all, all your transformations are painful ... What do you think people were not doing before banks ? Banks were established only a century ago but people were living well even before that ...

You need to know practical steps then we have to restructure economy based on real implementation islamic banking system (current islamic banking system is only half islamic) ...

Basic banking system will be based on sharing of business risk by investor and businessman and both should share the real actual profits ...

Now if you want to really understand it then post some specific questions ... Otherwise i cant teach you finance and economics
You need to know intensity of pain so that you have enough painkillers.

You'll require lots of reserves to compensate and incentive for those who leave interest based system. Your steps would be:


i. Arrange the reserves.

ii. Remove hurdles in arranging reserves.

iii. Remove hurdles in achieving step "ii".


So, how are you going to achieve step one before thinking about removing interest.
 

The Accountant

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You need to know intensity of pain so that you have enough painkillers.

You'll require lots of reserves to compensate and incentive for those who leave interest based system. Your steps would be:


i. Arrange the reserves.

ii. Remove hurdles in arranging reserves.

iii. Remove hurdles in achieving step "ii".


So, how are you going to achieve step one before thinking about removing interest.
Which reserves are you talking about ? Are you talking about foreign currency reserves ? What they have to do with interest ?
 

fitpOsitive

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When everything is expected from politicians, when people dont stand up and force parliament for necessary legislations, when we expect army to train their masters, then we should expect nothing, but disaster.
 

The Accountant

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How are you going to pay for incentive and compensation mentioned above?
What compensation and incentives ? Stop posting one liner if you really want to understand and learn something ... However, if your intention is just to post incomplete irrelevant one liner just to prove i am wrong then sorry you can think i am right and wrong as my belief system is not for you ... You can think and believe whatever you want ...
 

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