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Featured 'The System'-by WAJsal

Discussion in 'Pakistani Siasat' started by WAJsal, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Shah01

    Shah01 FULL MEMBER

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    Good work so far and very good read @Azlan Haider
    Well I am not saying the system cannot be fixed. It will take much longer to fix (maybe a life time). Some of the posts are quite good and will give you an idea why it is difficult task if not impossible. As I have suggested that the elite need to come to terms with the new age and distribute some of the wealth they have amassed, this will only extend their rein. They need to learn from the west......... This will only make them more money and influence with the added benefit of happy populace.

    The below quote sums it up nicely: (in order to make a difference the populace need to play their role)
    Maybe the general populace can start by cleaning the streets and making queues. One doesn't need government to fix these two things.... everyone cooperate and keep the streets clean. When going to banks/shops then get in a queue and wait for your turn etc....

    Agree with you. The political career is frowned upon in Pakistan. The middle class won't even consider it. Maybe after IKs dharna I see a bit of a change in attitude and youth is joining politics. It will take time to dilute feudals' power.

    Couldn't agree more on this. In Pakistan the confused Muslims have mixed culture with Islam and many rituals (at weddings, day to day life etc) are introduced.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
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  2. Syed.Ali.Haider

    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    Where is the incentive for them to do that when they have absolute control and total impunity? Human nature would suggest that they will not change unless there is no other option left.
     
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  3. Shah01

    Shah01 FULL MEMBER

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    Agree. One will not change unless there is some incentive. The incentive in this case is to keep the power/money for decades if not centuries to come (held by the same families). Otherwise the desperate/frustrated youth could turn to revolution of some sort (maybe I am delusional about this).
     
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  4. Syed.Ali.Haider

    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    That incentive is negated by the certainty of belief of power and control not being in danger. And all the claims of revolution and tabdeeli are delusions. Blunt, but true.
     
  5. Shah01

    Shah01 FULL MEMBER

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    Blunt is good and needed for the current generation. The demographics of Pakistan is changing and urbanization together with a bit of literacy will dilute feudals powers as well with awareness people will vote whoever is better at administration.
     
  6. Syed.Ali.Haider

    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    Please do not confuse literacy with education. There is no awareness to speak of, save for abject acceptance. What happened to the elites who killed Shahzeb Khan in Karachi? Or burnt the couple in a kiln? Or beat a laborer upside down a few weeks ago? (And yes, even abducted and beat cops trying to enforce a speed limit on the motorway?) The evidence is clearly there for all the world to see, and for most in Pakistan to deny.
     
  7. Shah01

    Shah01 FULL MEMBER

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    Sir hence I said with awareness not literacy.... I am not talking about 5-10 years but one generation (50+ years). And believe me the feudals do not have the same powers as they had maybe 30 years ago..... their land banks are reducing slowly with that their influence.

    Again the current generation will not make any difference and they will live in denial. The globalization and technology will speed up the process of awareness and the next generation will be a bit more aware....
     
  8. Syed.Ali.Haider

    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    The land banks do not matter, as the holdings will move on to other types of resource monopolies, not just land. You are a better person than me to look that far ahead. As far as I can tell for the foreseeable future, all the claims of change will come to naught, except as a managed pressure relief mechanism.

    Technology won't really help. After all, look at PDF and the mindset prevailing here.
     
  9. Shah01

    Shah01 FULL MEMBER

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    Agree but there would be winners and losers as I have seen families who's power eroded over the span of couple of decades. Now they only have names left and much less influence.
    So these people are replaced by new middle class and business class. So the system evolves (so to speak) again the timeline here is a generation.

    Technology will help and it is helping. Pakistani society was fed with one broadcasting channel till the early 2000s with no internet or phones etc.
    Now on the other hand the news from across the world are available to average Joe (this is where the literacy comes into play, read/understand English will do wonders). The change of mindset is not like switching on/off light bulb. It will take years/decades before the change is apparent. Hence the current generation's mindset don't really bother me.....It will dilute slowly but surely.
     
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  10. Syed.Ali.Haider

    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    That is what happens elsewhere. In Pakistan, one set of elites gets replaced by another set while the children of a lesser god remain where they are. You hopes are good and noble, but unrealistic and unsupported by evidence.
     
  11. Shah01

    Shah01 FULL MEMBER

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    Sir it is OK to be optimistic. A lot has been achieved since 1947 and I am hopeful it will be much more while I am alive. Literacy rates from below 10% to ~58%. I acknowledge the problems but hope is the only thing which make the humans keep going. So for the next 50 years my hopes are not necessarily unrealistic.
     
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  12. Syed.Ali.Haider

    Syed.Ali.Haider ELITE MEMBER

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    Of course what you say is great, but more believable only when you decide to move back.
     
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  13. T-123456

    T-123456 ELITE MEMBER

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    Bro,you explained the reasons very well but where is the solution to the problem,how to move forward with whom?
    People talk about whats wrong ,how it got this far and what should be done to get out of this mess but nobody named a person or a ''group'' to do it.
     
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  14. RAMPAGE

    RAMPAGE SENIOR MEMBER

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    Just one positive rating? Goes to show the quality of PDFs TT brigade, or lack thereof. What an excellent, excellent post.


    Did you really have to do this? What is the difference between a Muslim State and an Islamic State? I thought the idea was to get us representation, not a Muslim State or a Madina e Thani.
     
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  15. Shah01

    Shah01 FULL MEMBER

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    Sir I already have more invested in Pakistan than UK (where I reside). So stakes are high for me and I am hopeful it will get better. So I am probably helping Pakistan (Indirectly) more than I would be able to while/if I reside there. I may even move back depending on how my family circumstances are etc.
     
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