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The REAL L4 Autonomous Driving brought by Chinese tech giant Huawei, demonstrated in Shanghai.

antonius123

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I think the issue is that since the Long March 5 is China's largest rocket people assume something substantial is going to rain down.

However it is actually not very large so the worry is probably unfounded and overblown. We should reserve this worry for only large rockets like NASA's and SpaceX's.

So that means you should already known your media reputation for overblowing and unfounded news.
 

j20blackdragon

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Full autonomy is really a software limitation, and Huawei has already claimed that the Arcfox αS HBT has Level 4 capabilities. The car will be delivered later this year (2021), so we'll find out soon if they're lying. You can't hide a whole bunch of accidents and crashes.

But I want to compare the sensors (hardware) to Tesla.

All Tesla cars built after October 2016 have eight external cameras, 12 ultrasonic sensors, and a forward-facing radar. Teslas will probably never have lidar because Elon Musk has criticized it for years. More recently, Tesla has even talked about ditching the radar and moving towards a vision-only system.

Compare that to the Arcfox αS HBT:

Automating the car is a stack of sensors, including three lidars, six millimeter-wave radars, 13 ultrasonic radars and 12 cameras, as well as Huawei’s own chipset for automated driving.

“This would be much better than Tesla,” Xu said of the car’s capabilities.



Interesting.

Back in 2010, when the J-20 was first unveiled, all the Western defense experts criticized the J-20 for not having "sensor fusion" like the F-22/F-35. Those days are over. A decade later, even Huawei commercial products have "sensor fusion" combining lidar, radar, ultrasonic, and 360-degree surround cameras (kinda like the F-35's DAS lol) to create a single integrated picture, not of the battlefield, but for autonomous driving. Fast forward 10 years, and all the autonomous vehicles on the road can even be "datalinked" together with Huawei's 5G or 6G. It's funny how things have come full circle.

The charging system is impressive too.

Thirdly, the ArcFox αS HI smart car uses Huawei's fast charging technology which ensures a top-up of 197 km after a 10-minute charge. The fast-charging system includes a smart battery management system including thermal control. The Alpha S can be fully charged in 7 hours with 20 kW AC charging while DC fast charging will take only 15 minutes.


These are all Tesla killing technologies.
 
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j20blackdragon

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Tesla's FSD Beta in Oakland:

A video of a Tesla in Full Self-Driving mode published online earlier this year is 13 minutes of terror. It’s almost comically bad how terribly the robo-assisted car performs.

Driving through downtown Oakland is nothing like the wide boulevards and predictable traffic patterns of suburbia. The Tesla, it seemed, didn't know what to do with itself.

In FSD mode, the car seems overly cautious and freaked out by every small thing. The driver and passenger at one point note to each other, "It acted very drunk there." At another moment, the car just stops, while at another it gets way too close to oncoming traffic as it's trying to make room for a bicyclist.

At one point, the car goes into a left-turn only lane but continues driving straight toward a line of parked cars.

It's a harrowing 13 minutes. The car gets honked at for taking turns too slowly and stopping too much, usually because it seems to think a pedestrian is nearby. "People around us getting very impatient," the riders comment.

The driver takes over a few times, once because the Tesla was not going to make it across an unprotected left turn. It's hard to watch. "Oh god, go, go, go," one of the riders says.

The theme of the ride, in short, is confusion (the Tesla) and frustration (the humans).



 

Daniel808

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Like Chinese always said : The Future is here :enjoy:

Chinese always leaving other people behind in Stone age
 
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艹艹艹

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Democrats are pushing legislation that would pour money into helping U.S. automakers catch up.
"There's no reason why American workers can't lead the world in the production of electric vehicles and batteries":Biden
:-)
 

Beast

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Democrats are pushing legislation that would pour money into helping U.S. automakers catch up.
"There's no reason why American workers can't lead the world in the production of electric vehicles and batteries":Biden
:-)
They are lazy and want high paid. Plus they don't work OT and no commitment to work. How can lazy american beat hardworking Chinese workforce?

A country heavily dependent on import of migrants will get second rated workforce. They have no sense of belonging and all they want is to lynch american welfare system.
 

Hamartia Antidote

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Tesla's FSD Beta in Oakland:

A video of a Tesla in Full Self-Driving mode published online earlier this year is 13 minutes of terror. It’s almost comically bad how terribly the robo-assisted car performs.

Driving through downtown Oakland is nothing like the wide boulevards and predictable traffic patterns of suburbia. The Tesla, it seemed, didn't know what to do with itself.

In FSD mode, the car seems overly cautious and freaked out by every small thing. The driver and passenger at one point note to each other, "It acted very drunk there." At another moment, the car just stops, while at another it gets way too close to oncoming traffic as it's trying to make room for a bicyclist.

At one point, the car goes into a left-turn only lane but continues driving straight toward a line of parked cars.

It's a harrowing 13 minutes. The car gets honked at for taking turns too slowly and stopping too much, usually because it seems to think a pedestrian is nearby. "People around us getting very impatient," the riders comment.

The driver takes over a few times, once because the Tesla was not going to make it across an unprotected left turn. It's hard to watch. "Oh god, go, go, go," one of the riders says.

The theme of the ride, in short, is confusion (the Tesla) and frustration (the humans).



LOL! and where are the hundreds of users of China's self driving technology posting 100% successful driving videos for us to compare. It may as well be vaporware without a reference. Your inferences of its true abilties are just conjecture.
 

j20blackdragon

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LOL! and where are the hundreds of users of China's self driving technology posting 100% successful driving videos for us to compare. It may as well be vaporware without a reference. Your inferences of its true abilties are just conjecture.
Why would you need Youtube videos? In 3-4 years, every major city in China will have large fleets of fully driverless robotaxis on full display. L4 or even L5 autonomous capabilities are achievable TODAY if you are willing to use lidar. So why doesn't Tesla use lidar? The answer is COST. The cost of placing a complicated (and bulky) lidar system on a car could be somewhere around $10,000+ if the U.S. tried to do it today. Tesla is highly focused on costs and making sure the cars are affordable. Adding the price of a lidar on top of an already expensive car is a terrible idea if your target market is the private individual.

Plus take a look at the Waymo lidar system. Look how BULKY it is. How many private car owners want to own a car that looks like this?


Looks are less of a problem with a robotaxi. And a robotaxi will pay for itself after a certain number of rides.

Also China has one more secret weapon. China is the only country in the world that can produce the low cost, SMALL SIZE lidar system. Take a look at the Huawei car. It has lidar, but can you see it?;)
 

j20blackdragon

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I may have been too optimistic when I said a U.S. lidar system is only $10,000+, so let me correct myself. It is actually WAY MORE.

This is from John Krafcik, CEO of Waymo:

In the interview, Krafcik also gave an idea of how much each one of the company’s vehicles will cost.

“Let me paraphrase it like this: If we equip a Chrysler Pacifica Van or a Jaguar I-Pace with our sensors and computers, it costs no more than a moderately equipped Mercedes S-Class. So for the entire package, including the car - today,” he said in the interview.

A moderately equipped Mercedes Benz S-Class retails around $180,000 in the U.S.


 

Hamartia Antidote

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Why would you need Youtube videos? In 3-4 years, every major city in China will have large fleets of fully driverless robotaxis on full display. L4 or even L5 autonomous capabilities are achievable TODAY if you are willing to use lidar. So why doesn't Tesla use lidar? The answer is COST. The cost of placing a complicated (and bulky) lidar system on a car could be somewhere around $10,000+ if the U.S. tried to do it today. Tesla is highly focused on costs and making sure the cars are affordable. Adding the price of a lidar on top of an already expensive car is a terrible idea if your target market is the private individual.

Plus take a look at the Waymo lidar system. Look how BULKY it is. How many private car owners want to own a car that looks like this?


Looks are less of a problem with a robotaxi. And a robotaxi will pay for itself after a certain number of rides.

Also China has one more secret weapon. China is the only country in the world that can produce the low cost, SMALL SIZE lidar system. Take a look at the Huawei car. It has lidar, but can you see it?;)
LIDAR is not the magic bullet. If that was the case we would have had self-driving taxis in the 1990's. It's a bit more complicated than that.

Yes, we already have had Waymo driverless taxis for years which use LIDAR driving the streets but it requires an area to be pre-scanned so the LIDAR has something to match itself to (like a cruise missile radar following a pre-canned terrain map). One benefit Waymo had with the LIDAR mounted high is it actually could see over the cars around it and predict things better.

Tesla is not going to rely on comparing pre-scanned maps. It is being built to work dynamically anywhere worldwide using just vision. A FAR FAR harder thing to build. Think of it as something a robot would need if navigating through the woods where a map of every tree location is not practical.
 
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Globenim

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Meanwhile in the US, Tesla is still crashing into trees, killing all passengers, and sparking a fire that took four hours to extinguish. The crash in Texas happened at 11:25 p.m. on a residential street in an upscale Houston suburb, so the roads were probably empty.
Unlike American companies who are measured by the level of hype and false expectations created by P.R. campaigns, state propaganda backing and successfully sueing and silencing of critics, in America Chinese companies are measured by hyperbolic American state propaganda headlines about the entire industries history of failures that may or may have not actually have happend and every window of downturn in the flucutating markets on an arbitrary scale that can never exceed what brainwashed Americans currently believe they are capable of even if its mostly just a bunch of CGI renderings of nonexististant dreams and never practically or realistically used prototypes they are thumbing their chests over.

So dont expect this pointless mudslinging to cope with successful implementations in China to end even on the clueless consumer side, as long as Americans still have internet and it didnt break down because of another grid failure to be blamed on Russian hackers.

Just do the right thing. Who cares what scammy companies pumped up by the U.S. government do on their turf.
 
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letsrock

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LIDAR is not the magic bullet. If that was the case we would have had self-driving taxis in the 1990's. It's a bit more complicated than that.

Yes, we already have had Waymo driverless taxis for years which use LIDAR driving the streets but it requires an area to be pre-scanned so the LIDAR has something to match itself to (like a cruise missile radar following a pre-canned terrain map). One benefit Waymo had with the LIDAR mounted high is it actually could see over the cars around it and predict things better.

Tesla is not going to rely on comparing pre-scanned maps. It is being built to work dynamically anywhere worldwide using just vision. A FAR FAR harder thing to build. Think of it as something a robot would need if navigating through the woods where a map of every tree location is not practical.
I mentioned this before as well. Elon musk decision to go cowboy style on dirving automation where tesla navigates heroically every obstacle real time ONLY by itself is a poor one. Eventually self driving will require road infrastructure changes and mapping, a live central command covering an area with a "kill" switch to stop all cars if needed etc.
I believe there could be also politics behind Elon choice -a genuine automated driving will pretty much kill car industry as it is. it is estimated one needs only one - tenth of current car infrastructure for that.
 

Hamartia Antidote

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I mentioned this before as well. Elon musk decision to go cowboy style on dirving automation where tesla navigates heroically every obstacle real time ONLY by itself is a poor one. Eventually self driving will require road infrastructure changes and mapping, a live central command covering an area with a "kill" switch to stop all cars if needed etc.
As if a Tesla can't also be wired into that same system?
Can't Tesla's access the mapping too?

These things like mapping only improve Tesla's basic system...and when they are not available the Tesla will still run..while others have to stop.
 

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