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The Problem of Urdu

MST

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I am agnostic and see Hinduism more as a way of life. I am drawn more toward Buddhism anyway - if I had to choose a religion for myself, I would pick Buddhism. And I never said Hinduism is based just on mythology. What I meant was that Hinduism incorporates a lot of mythology to propagate its beliefs - more than the current crop of prevalent religions which tend to have more dogmas. As it is Hinduism predates all major religions which means it is unfair to compare something much older to the other religions.
Oh please - Hinduism IS based on mythology; not history. Anybody who says otherwise has no idea about Hinduism.
This is what you said. But if you didn't mean it the way I interpreted it then fair enough. We don't have to discuss it anymore.

And its your personal choice what religion you want to follow. But as an Atheist I think Buddhism has its own share of mythology as well. In fact there is pattern in all the religions across the world which make it essentially very easy to see that they are all man made. So I don't really feel I have to follow any of them. That topic deserves a long write up but not on PDF.
 

Jackdaws

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This is what you said. But if you didn't mean it the way I interpreted it then fair enough. We don't have to discuss it anymore.

And its your personal choice what religion you want to follow. But as an Atheist I think Buddhism has its own share of mythology as well. In fact there is pattern in all the religions across the world which make it essentially very easy to see that they are all man made. So I don't really feel I have to follow any of them. That topic deserves a long write up but not on PDF.
Yea - I did type that in the heat of the situation. But then I realized it not something I believe and it could offend someone's religious feelings - so I'd retract it. We are way off topic here.
 

livingdead

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Seriously i don't like to read long posts .. Well the thread don't belongs to secularism of any state so don't want to comment on it neither i like to criticize any country but you mentioned in your post about secularism in Pakistan which is why they can't comment on it so i asked you about secularism .. It is our right to criticize the things which in our opinion is not appropriate no matter by whom it is telecasting ..
I already aplogized others for writing long post, I would as for your forgiveness too. I wrote about secularism because I was asked (I answer what I know but you can refer to wiki). You have every right to criticize everybody, was just pointing that silly argument wrt secularism(done by so many pakistanis that I suspect they pretend not to know) just makes people look stupid and rest of your very valid arguments will lose some of its impact. It encourages indian trolls and discourages serious conversation.
 

livingdead

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I thnk no more discussion i watchd these cartoons so mjhe zada pta hai :D
well maam, agar pata hai to kuch action bhi lena chahiye... If Indian I&B ministry does not respond, you can do it at local level. (cable/dth provider)
I am not disputing your observation, but I would expect some action from your side after such passionate discussion. :)
 

Spring Onion

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Exactly my point - how is a Chota Bheem playing cricket & fighting aliens with his friends about Hinduism?
ohh bhai there is chota hunuman too



Of course you are. But would you oppose Tom & Jerry saying it is promoting American culture? Or is this special treatment reserved for the Indian cartoons?
what do you mean by culture?

culture and religion in case of India are mixed.

i have no issue with indian culture but do have an issue with hindu gods as characters for kids entertainment
 

priti

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ohh bhai there is chota hunuman too





what do you mean by culture?

culture and religion in case of India are mixed.

i have no issue with indian culture but do have an issue with hindu gods as characters for kids entertainment
but i am sure you have no issue if kids watch it, if their parents dont have an objection.
remember pakistan has millions of hindus who may like it.
 

Jackdaws

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ohh bhai there is chota hunuman too





what do you mean by culture?

culture and religion in case of India are mixed.

i have no issue with indian culture but do have an issue with hindu gods as characters for kids entertainment
I don't blame you - it is only natural. When I was in 2nd or 3th grade, I went to the school library and brought home books on Jesus and Christianity. Since I went to a Catholic school, there were no dearth of those. My mother was slightly taken aback and while she didn't stop me from reading those books, she went and bought me the full series of Ramayan. I look back at that episode bemusedly. But it is natural to try and protect kids. It is your country - you can either ask your Information and Broadcasting Ministry to stop airing what you seem to think are religious videos or better still - produce your own content.
 

cloud_9

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چھوٹا بھیم آرہا ہے بھائی جان۔ ہمیں ٹی وی دیکھنے دو

This is what I recently had to hear when my aunt’s kids came over to my house for a birthday party a week back. The wanted to watch a kids show featuring a shirtless rustic Indian boy with a prominent Bindi plastered on his forehead and his band of even nuder friends (with bindis) engage in adventures featuring kiddized versions of Hindu deities and Hindu themes that end up with Hindu heroes saving the day from cartoony enemies with victories attributed to Hinduism/ Hindu logic.

The kids weren’t satisfied with just that. After Chota Bheem ended, another cartoon show called Roll No.21 actually features a blue skinned Hindu deity in kiddiized attending an American-style school!

I sat through the one hour that the kids (in my home in central Pakistan) watched on my tv and couldn’t believe how engrossed the children of my aunt were in these cartoons. These were the same little kids that I could catch any other day playing cricket in the fields or singing the national anthem in the school morning assemblies. After the show, I couldn’t be more appalled to overhear these kids using phrases like “chinta mat karo” or “bhariya” among themselves.


I tried another experiment, I went over to there home and switched the tv. The CGI kids movie “Kung Fu Panda 2” was coming on a movie channel in English. Honestly, I’d expect kids to go crazy for a movie like that. I left the movie on the tv thinking any moment now the kids would come in and start crowding the room in order to see this movie. They did come in, sat a while (possibly wondering why I was watching a kids movie) and then asked me to change the channel. I obliged and asked them “Where to?” They anxiously stated a channel number and I pressed the remote expecting a cartoon channel to appear on the screen… instead Salman Khan’s ugly face in sunglasses and a police uniform popped onto the screen. The atmosphere changed from the moroseness of the past half hour I had the King Fu Panda Movie up on the tv screen to intense shrieking and excitement in an instant!

“DABANG! DABANG!!!” the kids screamed.

The remote was snatched from my hand and the kids pumped the tv’s volume to its maximum. Two hours would pass before the kids got off the tv set. And they didn’t get off because the movie ended (Thanks to Indian advertisements, 2 hour long Indian movies can stretch to 4 hours on tv), neither because the sun had set and none of these 7-13 years had any Asr or Maghrib Namaaz to pray, but because MY OWN AUNT’S INDIAN DRAMA HAD STARTED!!!

Later in the evening, on the excuse that I wanted to watch some news, I pried the remote out of a reluctant aunt and her elder daughter and quickly skimmed through what channels they had. It was a pretty ordinary tv setup: 10 Pakistani news/politics channels, 15 Pakistani entertainment/drama channels, 3 cartoon channels 5-6 local-language channels 4-5 Sports channels, 4-5 English movie channels, 5 Islamic channels and only 2 Indian music channels. The only Indian entertainment channel broadcasted from India was “Life OK.” But the tv had 20 channels that I can only describe as the “Mobile phone vote” channels: these channels were solely dedicated to Indian films, and unsurprisingly, these were the favourite tv channels of the house and would be watched nonstop until Pakistani political shows took over at night when the men of the house returned home.

Focusing on the kids channels that were available: Cartoon Network Pakistan, Nick Pakistan and POGO. Only one channel was in English (Cartoon Network) while the other two: Nick and POGO aired only Hindi dubbed cartoons full of phrases as “shakti- shaali” and Indian actors/actresses advertising branded products nonstop.

I understand that these kids wouldn’t like to watch Pakistani Political shows nor the housewife-oriented Pakistani dramas nor the Urdu-dubbed Turkish Dramas, but perplexing of all, why wouldn’t these kids watch English-language kids movies on the movie channels or cartoons from the English-language Cartoon Network. I asked them and they said unanimously that they were “not in Urdu.”

But they would readily watch Hindi language POGO and Nick because, as they said, to my horror: “they were in Urdu.”

How damned could we be that our own Pakistani children couldn’t tell the difference between Urdu and Hindi and, despite having quality English programming on tv readily available (EVEN WITH ENGLISH SUBTITLES), they preferred a plethora of Indian Indian tv songs/ shows!

These kids were more likely to sing “Jai Ho” than “Dil Dil Pakistan” if asked!

As a final question, I asked what was the price of there cable tv connection:

Rs. 450…

… that’s probably affordable to 99% of Pakistan!!!!

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This little investigation begs the questions:
Why is it, that we are shamelessly so engrossed with a country that still doesn’t fail in denigrating us at any moment anywhere in the world with its media and government and still seeks to destroy us over sixty years after our independence.

Why is it that we can allow our children to be exposed to the very practices and culture of India that our forefathers struggled to save us from?

Why can’t Pakistanis stop comparing ourselves to poverty and disease stricken India when we should be comparing ourselves and trying to emulate to the better nations of Asia like South Korea, Japan, Singapore, and Malaysia that have achieved successes beyond what 4th world India will ever achieve. Or why not look to the shining example of Turkey that serves as a model for Pakistan to follow? All these countries were once devastated by war, strife and poverty in many ways that were worse than what Pakistan is suffering from today, but yet we still look to India what we should be.

Why Pakistan? Why?
Why do our mothers and sisters pick the most Indian of fashions for their wedding days? Why do our singers and artists go over to India to perform? Why can a Pakistani instantly recognize the latest Bollywood movie and not the Hollywood movie it is ripping off? Why are we using the latest Hinglish catch phrases in our speech that are an abomination to real spoken English? Why do ALL foreigners from the Americans to the Chinese consider Pakistanis and Indians the same people? Why can Pakistanis easily identify notable people from India but NOONE from the rest of the Muslim nor the Western worlds? Why do many of us not fear it if Wagah border is opened (as many of our politicians would like) that it would allow the the Indians to flood our economy and enslave us to the will of Indian businessmen (effectively turning Pakistan into an Indian colony)? Why don’t we feel sorrow for the deaths of our Pakistani soldiers who lose their lives in deadly avalanches while defending our country everyday but are impressed when India gets new aircraft from Russia and America? Why can’t we remember the millions of Muslims these Indians had slaughtered like animals during partition? Why can’t we even remember the thousands of Muslims recently massacred in Indian Gujrat in 2002?
And if we are so attached to India mentally, then why don’t we feel humiliated when India’s economy grows at a rate of 8% and ours struggles at a measly 4%?

Tough questions, and like all good politicians, there can be a million meaningless answers.

The answers actually lies in the innocent statement uttered by my aunt’s kids: “It’s in Urdu!”

Urdu, our national language which our teachers and textbooks have repeatedly stated that it is a language that is “separate” from Hindi. It’s also said that Urdu is 70% Persian, Turkish and Arabic and shares only 30% of its vocabulary with Hindi. If so, then why can we totally understand whatever an Indian says in Hindi (even in heavily Sanskritized Hindi) but not even a casual sentence uttered by any Iranian, Arab or Turk?

Urdu, as we know it is nothing but Hindi enveloped in myth and the Persian alphabet.
Every Pakistani learns Hindi in school, we just don’t call it that.
That’s the explanation of the dichotomy we see in Pakistan today: we can keep on stressing that we are Pakistanis ready to defend ourselves against India and yet shamelessly enjoy the poison the enemy sends across the border.

Urdu is not the as benevolent as we take it to be in our country. It is helping our foe conquer us without a single shot. And yet, none of us are ready to admit this.

Just think for a moment, if Urdu really had no relation to Hindi, then would ever be possible for the cultural situation we see today in Pakistan? Would it ever occur for any Pakistani to ever even think of even visit the excrement-filled streets of India? It wouldn’t. But no, plenty of people desire to visit India just because of what they saw on television about “Incredible India.” And why are these tv images so effective? It’s because they are speaking in the language of Pakistan, and that language is Hindi.


Still think I committing blasphemy? That I’m unpatriotic? Really? Then go ask yourselves you “Urdu”- speaking Pakistanis: When was the last time you watched something from the Indian media/cinema AND ENJOYED IT?

For most of you, the answer is very recently, even though you don’t want to admit it.
And then ask yourselves, Why was it enjoyable?

The answer to that is the same as the kids said; Indian media/cinema is in HINDI WHICH ALL OF US CAN UNDERSTAND BECAUSE URDU IS JUST LIKE HINDI!!!

Nay, you still deceive yourselves, because Urdu IS Hindi and Hindi IS Urdu. They are both the same language!!!!!

If Urdu and Hindi were different languages then they’d be as different as let’s say, Urdu and Sindhi.
Can you, yes you non-Sindhi Pakistani Urdu-speakers, understand basic Sindhi conversation?
Honestly, just a bit or not at all.
And that’s what you call a “separate language.” Hindi and Urdu on the other hand are barely different from each other as Cockney and Texan English!!! Hindi and Urdu use virtually the same words in all instances!!!!

Still don’t believe me? Then I issue you a challenge.

Go to the wikipedia website’s FrontPage and look at the bottom left column. There will be a list of languages given. In that list there will be a language listed as “Fiji Hindi.” Click on that name and your browser will be directed towards the Fiji Hindi wikipedia.
In this language version of wikipedia, you will be introduced to a Hindi form that is not written in the Devanagri script, but this Hindi will be written entirely in the English alphabet.

Now, with Hindi written in English letters, I dare you, you Pakistani Urdu-speakers to read what is written and tell me that you understood 90% of what is written there.
You will be surprised at how similar both Fiji “Hindi” and the so called “URDU” are the same.

According to linguistics, if two spoken forms share at least 85% of there speech with each other, then they are called “dialects.” But Hindi and Urdu share 90% of their everyday speech with each other, they aren’t just dialects, they are the same language!

“But Hindi uses Sanskrit words and Urdu uses Persian words” is what many say.

That maybe right, if it was the 1950s. We are living in the 2010s and guess what, nether Persian-filled Urdu nor Sanskrit-filled Hindi are the same as they were at the time of independence in 1947.
In case you have noticed, we Pakistanis tend to unconsciously use a lot of English words in our speech DAILY. While many say this is natural because both “languages” are taking words from English that don’t exist in these languages(for example telecommunications). I beg to differ. Whenever you use an English word in Urdu, it’s not some really scientific or technical word, it’s usually simple words. And whenever you use a simple word, its usually because you are not using the Urdu word.

How many times has it occurred that Pakistanis have used English words instead of the Urdu word?
Car instead of Gaaree, Table instead of Mayz, Building instead of Imaarat, Government instead of Hukoomat, Teacher instead of Ustaad/Ustaani, Office instead of Daftar, Shop instead of Dukaan, Train instead of Rail-Gaaree, Time instead of Waqt, Pen instead of Qalam, Market instead of Bazaar, Blood instead of Khoon, Magazine instead of Risaalah, Cream instead of Malaaii, Birthday instead of SaalGira, Party instead of Jashn, Leader instead of Quaid, Game instead of Bazi or even Khayl.

This list can go on and on. But little do we Pakistanis realize that day by day, we are losing all of our Persian vocabulary that has existed in Urdu for centuries and replacing them with English words.

Why this is a bad thing is not because I’m against English (otherwise I would have typed this post in Urdu) it is because it is exactly the same thing that is happening in Hindi.

Even in Hindi, all the Sanskrit words are under threat from English words. There is an entire list of what English words have entered Hindi right here:

[plz GoogleSearch: "Brian Steel's Soap box English words in Hindi"]

As you read the English words found in Hindi, you will notice that most of these words are the very same English words that are used in Urdu!
Now how could that be possible? Urdu and Hindi are borrowing the very same English words? How come?

It’s because Hindi and Urdu are the same language! That’s why English is having the very same effect on both languages!

If they weren’t the same language then Urdu and Hindi would borrow very different words from English.
For example, Urdu has a word called “Hukumat”, and doesn’t need to borrow the word “Government,” but in common Urdu speech, Pakistanis use the word Government instead of Hukumat!

The exact same thing has happened in Hindi where the Sanskrit word has been replaced by Government in common speech. Why would the very same thing happen in both Urdu and Hindi? It’s because Urdu and Hindi are the same language!

This is a fact that is clear to all: any difference that once existed between Urdu and Hindi in 1947 is slowly but surely being eroded away by the English words that are entering both of them.

And once an English word has replaced a native word in both Urdu and Hindi, it cannot be removed. Therefore, guess what?

URDU AND HINDI ARE BECOMING MORE SIMILAR TO EACH OTHER DAY BY DAY!!!!

That means everyone from Peshawar to Chennai in the very near future will speak neither Urdu nor Hindi, but HINGLISH.

[Plz GoogleSearch: the indiatoday article "Hindification of India leaves Indian brown sahibs baffled"]

Hinglish is the guaranteed future of Urdu and Hindi. You cannot deny it, because you already speak it. No Pakistani is willing to go back to language of Ghalib, nor is any Indian is willing to go back to language of 3000BC.
The pull of English is just too powerful to resist and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Still don’t believe me? Then have a listen to the audio file given on this page and then say I’m wrong:

[Please GoogleSearch: "Mixing English in Pakistan by PRI Aaron Schachter 2008"]

But there are those who say that it is a good thing that Pakistanis and Indians will speak the very same language in the very near future (about 2025 I think?). They think that there will be greater cooperation and understanding between these two countries and hence the lower the chance of war.

You probably heard that from some traitor singer who went over to India to get rich, or from a starry-eyed fan who wishes Bollywood film stars to visit Pakistan.
Don’t peddle me nonsense and wake up to reality: Pakistan was created to be not only separate but to walk a different path from that of India. There would be no point of creating Pakistan if there was no problem between Muslims and Hindus. But guess what, there is.

Without much nagging, it is clearly understandable to why a common language between Pakistan and India is very dangerous for Pakistan:

Once the language is the same, the culture become the same; once the culture is the same the ideas become the same; once the ideas become the same the borders mean nothing; once the borders mean nothing, the borders come down; once the borders come down, the demographics become the same; once the demographics become the same, the economics become the same; once the economics become the same the political thinking becomes the same; once the political thinking become the same, the identity becomes the same; once the identity becomes the same… there is no more Pakistan, there is only India.
We’ll be back to living under the nightmare that was the Maratha and Sikh rule of the 1700-1800s.

Period.

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Urdu is the knife that is backstabbing Pakistan without any of us knowing about it. It’s about time that we Pakistanis pull out the knife and destroy it before it destroys us.

But how can we get rid of the very thing that makes us Pakistani? Which people think is, Urdu.

Firstly, Urdu doesn’t make us Pakistani. Urdu makes us Indians. Heck even Urdu literature doesn’t even connect us to the land of Pakistan, it connects us to the poets of Delhi, Lucknow and Deccan Hyderabad, which are, as you know, in India. Urdu is itself an inherently Indian language, whose homeland is not Pakistan but Uttar Pradesh in India. There is nothing much in Urdu to call it Pakistani and whatever it did have is quickly being lost under the swarm of English words that have entered it which make us Pakistanis even more Indian than ever before.

What makes us Pakistani is our people: our Punjabis, our Pathans, our Sindhis, our Seraikis, our Balochis, our Karachiites and 50 other types of Pakistanis groups. All we Pakistanis need is a lingua franca that not only unites our country but keeps all of us free from India, who has sworn to destroy us.

Many countries have changed their languages. The Turks have changed there language from Osmalica to Turkish, the Russians got rid of French for Russian, The Koreans got rid of Japanese, The British got rid of Latin, The Indonesians got rid of Dutch, the Central Asians and Azerbaijanis got rid of Russian, The Algerians got rid of French etc etc etc. In most cases, these countries got rid of a language that oppressed them and had existed for centuries in their countries but then they prospered with languages that freed them.
So why can’t Pakistan do the same with Urdu?

An excellent selection of articles is available here if you still aren’t convinced:

[Plz GoogleSearch: "oocities paklanguage/opinion"]

The next question that comes along is: “What can replace Urdu?”
The Better Question is: “What language(s) will let Pakistanis prosper?”
The above link gives ample reason for why Persian is an excellent replacement for Urdu. But I’m obliged to give the advantages and disadvantages of Persian for Pakistan’s national language.


PERSIAN
Little do Pakistanis know that poets of Urdu like Ghalib were far more proud of their works in Persian than in Urdu. Allama Iqbal even preferred Persian to Urdu in his works. That’s why most of Iqbal’s Poems are written in Persian and not in Urdu. That’s why most Pakistanis cannot understand the message of Iqbal; they were denied it when Urdu was made the national language of Pakistan and they will forever be denied of it with Urdu.
Persian is the father of Urdu and until the 1970s, it was taught as a second language in Pakistani schools. With Persian, Pakistan will totally be rid of the Indian menace forever and connected to the Muslims of Central Asia and Iran as it should be.

(Please refer to the oocities article cited above for the benefits of Persian)

However, Persian is not a desirable language in the 21st century. Persian will connect Pakistan to the war torn land that is Afghanistan, to the isolated and insignificant country of Tajikistan and will not connect Pakistan to the internationally embargoed Iran. Ties with Iran, the world’s second most universally hated country in the world after North Korea, are quite harmful to have in the 21st century especially for Pakistan, who needs to improve its relations with the international world for its well being. Even if Pakistan risks ties with Iran, Pakistan will find that the country is stuck in isolation and not progressing ahead. This will be very harmful for Pakistan if Pakistan goes the same way.

You may have your opinions about Persian. Please do share them

ARABIC
Most Pakistanis don’t know this, but a famous figure from the Pakistan movement once pleaded that Pakistan shouldn’t adopt Urdu as the national language just when Pakistan became independent. He was the Aga Khan III, the founding father of the Muslim League, way before Quaid-i-Azam even joined the Muslim League. As the leader of the Ismailis and whose forefathers had a long history in Iran, it would make sense for him to ask Pakistan to adopt Persian as the national language, giving the long history Persian has had in the land that is now Pakistan before the British came. But he didn’t. Here is a man who truly wanted good for the newly independent Pakistan. He made his speech about this back in 1951, which you can read today right here:

[plz GoogleSearch: "amaana.org sultweb arabicpak"]

Let me update the information of this speech a bit:

There are 300million Arabic speakers in the world today all belonging to over 20 independent nations. The Arabic speakers represent the largest language group in the Islamic world rivaled by no other Muslim language, Bengali coming in at a second place with 200 million speakers. But while Bengali is spoken only in Bangladesh and West Bengal, Arabic is spoken from the Atlantic all the way the Arabian Sea which is a the Shores of Pakistan. The closest Arab country to Pakistan, Oman, is a mere 500 miles away from Pakistan’s coastline. If Pakistan adopts Arabic and replaces Urdu, it will be directly connected to the centre of the Muslim world and fully broken off from the enslaving influence of India.

Already half of Urdu’s Perso-Arabic vocabulary is Arabic and Urdu uses the same script as Arabic. While the rest of the world calls Arabic a very difficult language, Pakistanis already exist at the threshold of mastering Arabic. It will be a Category II language for Pakistanis at max.

The Benefits of Arabic are numerous. Not only does Arabic allow Muslims to directly understand the message of the Quran and Hadith, Arabic itself is a very versatile language. Very few languages exist on Earth that have been able to modernize without borrowing words from Western languages. Arabic is so versatile that it has been able to coin words from its own roots to meet the needs of the modern age. So, Arabic frees ones mind from ever kowtowing to any foreign power and hence is the perfect language to keep one’s independence.

Some may fear that the spread of Arabic may lead to increased extremism in Pakistan. I don’t think so. When each and every Pakistani Muslim is able to open actually read and comprehend the very words and commands of the Quran that forbid the killing of Muslims, then extremism itself will fade out.

Others fear that Pakistan may be turned into a colony of Saudi Arabia if it adopts Arabic. That is highly unlikely. Firstly, Pakistan does have a mind of its own and will keeps its independence (Which it cannot do if it shares the same language as India). Secondly, Arabic teaching in Pakistan will not be carried out by any Saudis. Arabic teachers from other countries in the Arab world are far more likely to be teachers of Arabic in Pakistan than touchy Saudis will ever be. Teachers from places like Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Sudan are more likely to come to Pakistan to teach than Saudis. Hence, Pakistanis will get a very multinational education in Arabic.

Some fear that Arab systems of government will form in Pakistan.
Just ask yourself: Can Pakistan ever be a monarchy? Impossible. Can Pakistan ever have an unending military government? 4 such governments have come and gone. It is unlikely that they will ever come back again now that we have a free media in Pakistan.

The economic benefits are huge. Most Arab countries are desert countries with little agriculture, but have fast growing populations. Pakistan, as an agricultural country, can win the export markets in all these countries and earn a steady income for all time to come that is not dependent on oil!

You may have your opinions about Arabic. Please do share them.

PUNJABI AND SINDHI

Many argue that no nation became great by adopting a foreign language. And that’s what Persian and Arabic are, alien foreign languages. They both are hard to learn for the average Pakistani to learn and also rely on expensive foreign teachers to be taught and promoted in the country. But since our education system isn’t that widespread, nether Persian nor Arabic are feasible for Pakistanis to quickly adopt. The same goes for English.

However, the local languages of Pakistan are free of this. They can be easily taught due to the availability of many teachers and the relatively low difficulty of these languages for all Pakistanis.

With Sindhi, a language not spoken in India, Pakistan can gain what it lacks today: a national identity that is based within the territory of Pakistan.
The same goes for Punjabi which has only 5% of India speaking it. (Please refer to the oocities article cited above)

In countries such as Malaysia, the are TWO national languages along with English. So why can’t Pakistan have two highly acceptable national languages instead of the single harmful Urdu?


You may have your opinions about Sindhi and Punjabi. Please do share them.


I personally think replacing Urdu with both Sindhi and Punjabi is the best way forward along with English as the real lingua francas of Pakistan. Trilingualism, like in Switzerland should be promoted in Pakistan. Not only will it ease the burden of learning so many languages on the Pakistanis and help it progress in the modern world, but it will give Pakistan what it has always being lacking: a sense of self-identity based on its own people.

So what do you say?
Someone post a Summary.

 

INDIC

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Urdu makes them feel less pakistani because some indians can also speak it :)

It also makes his bowel movements much less smoother than they ought to be. #FitsAndStarts
It has more to do with claiming Mughal legacy and Two Nation theory for which Pakistanis(except Bengalis) were ready to dicard their own languages for immitating Lakhnow type Urdu(Urdu of Lucknow is known for its sweetness and Nawabi culture). In 1947 native Urdu speakers were 3-4% of population. In spoken form both Hindi and Urdu are the same language and Pakistan feel insecure about Sanskrit based word entering their bookish Urdu.
 

Dushmann

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Right, Dari or Arabic should replace Urdu in Pakistan. Maybe you should consider Pashto as well.
But Punjabi and Sindhi are also completely Indian non-Islamic languages derived from Prakrut dialects, they also need to be wiped out to avoid identity crisis.
Once Dari is lingua franca and official language of Pakistan, you can get a proud new identity as Greater Afghanistan.
 

FaujHistorian

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It has more to do with claiming Mughal legacy and Two Nation theory for which Pakistanis(except Bengalis) were ready to dicard their own languages for immitating Lakhnow type Urdu(Urdu of Lucknow is known for its sweetness and Nawabi culture). In 1947 native Urdu speakers were 3-4% of population. In spoken form both Hindi and Urdu are the same language and Pakistan feel insecure about Sanskrit based word entering their bookish Urdu.

C'mon Indic yaar.

Let it go.

Why to drag controversial terms and flame bait others.

Just keep in mind.

--------------- That you are an Indian ambassador on on a Pakistani forum aka PDF.

Please set good examples.

Just as you would behave when invited to a house of a Pakistani friend.

Thank you
 

Burger Boy

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Maybe we should just formulate a new language by combining the existing languages.

Goodbye Urdu....hello Pak-zaban!

....coming from someone with urdu-speaking ancestors...
 

EyelessInGaza

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Apr 15, 2009
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There was a time in the early 1970s- I remember it faintly as I was a child- when illegal access to Pakistani TV was a definite perk for Indians living near the Pakistan border. Of course not many people had TV back then, but those who did, and had powerful enough receivers, were much envied.

As a child of an Indian Army Colonel living in Nagrota Cantonment with one TV in the Officers Mess, it used to be a tradition among us children and adults to try and get reception from Pak TV. Why? Because Pakistani TV had the good stuff. Indian Army brats living closer to the border (Akhnoor, IIRC) were much envied as they had easier access and would brag about watching English/ US shows on PTV such as One Million Dollar Man. Indian TV was crap at the time.

Fast forward to the 1980s. Pakistani soaps and plays were the absolute rage in Delhi. I remember a few names: Dhoop Kinare, Bakra Qiston Pay. Their videos would be sold at premium prices.

I also remember a summer evening when I showed Bakra Kishton Pay to my parents. They detested most Indian TV and film, but loved that play. Being traditional Hindus of a certain time, they cringed at hearing (one, IIRC) reference to cow slaughter, but got past that too. My father- now a Major General- could not stop laughing. He loved the talent of the lead actor, Umer Sharif.

Pakistani TV was 'class'. Indian TV was still evolving.

In all of this time- and today- Urdu remains a 'high class' language for many North Indians, the language of artists, poets, and the elite. We've never had a problem with Urdu.

Fast forward to 2013.

You want a solution my Pakistani friends? You won't find it in changing languages (that solution will IMO give Pakistan acute schizophrenia) or switching cultures. You will probable causes and solutions in what these two forummers are saying:

Lots of interesting WHY's -- if I may let me give you an answer that may help you understand WHY -- Because Pakistan does not produce culture -- Do you understand?? People look to others, like the culture parasites they are, because they do not find the need for culture satisfied -- While Pakistan's ideologues insist that Islam is the entirety of culture, the people reject this, obviously, right?? WHY? Because it is not the entirety of culture - Pakistanis like all people, like STORIES, they like FUN, Joy, Singing, Dancing, Adventure ..........

So if you object to the cultural parasitism imposed on Pakistan, please promote the production of culture within Pakistan .............

..........Thus our society's honchos have killed off creative stuff like art, latest music, literature, movies, and dramas. .........
Meanwhile, irony of ironies, today even Umer Sharif complains about Indian TV/ Bollywood domination.
 

bronxbull

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I listen to Nusrat's Qawwalis and many of them have strong religious tones and it is openly unabashedly about muslim culture in proper Urdu,that doesn't convert me?

And not to forget Late Moin Akhtar's fanatstic legendary show,Loose Talk.
 

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