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The Persian wars - opinion in Iran?

SalarHaqq

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Why did Persia at the time think it can invade Greece and make it part of the persian empire?

Greek lands back in the day were geographically more extended than today. And this applies to Greek mainland itself, excluding colonies. Namely, Asia Minor across the Aegean was a component of Greece, seeing how much of it had been hellenized. And the Iranians successfully conquered and integrated that eastern half of Greece into their empire. So it is essentially the western half of it which for the most part remained independent.
 
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TNT

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Persians and Greeks were fighting to dominate each other.Here came Arabs and dominated both Greeks and persians .What a cool chapter of history!

Yes but it was basically Islam that took people of the dessert and made them conquerors of the world. Those men were companions of the last Prophet SAW and the best among men. It had nothing to do with race and ethnicity.
 

Apollon

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Today is the anniversary of the Battle of Gaugamela. The battle that changed history forever. The battle where Alexander once and forall destroyed the persian empire.

Alexanders forces was only one half of the army of the persian king. But Alexander won a total victory.

Alexanders father Philipp II started this war and united all greek states into the League of Corinth. They did swear to take revenge for the crimes of the persians. For Xerxes burning down the Acropolis in Athens. When the Acropolis was burned down by Xerxes the Athenians never repaired the damaged statues, they placed them in a central place, so all could see the crimes of Xerxes.

At the battle of Gaugamela, Alexander was finally sucesscul to finalize that revenge
Yes but it was basically Islam that took people of the dessert and made them conquerors of the world. Those men were companions of the last Prophet SAW and the best among men. It had nothing to do with race and ethnicity.

The arabs were never able to conquer Greece. Its the main reason why Islam never spread into Europe.
 

Raghfarm007

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What I would say on this case is from my many times travellin to Greece and having had many Greek frinds.

The Greeks seem to want to live in a world of 2500 years ago... they are generally very ignorant of historic facts (especiall their many defeats). But I will not get into a historic debate, as most people really are not interested in real history.
My point here is that the Greeks haven´t had much to celoborate since their indipendence from hundreds of years of being rulled by the Ottomans......so they prefare to live in a fantacy world of 2500 ears ago.

I find many nations to live in fantacy world of the past, when they dont have a bright future ahead of them.
 

Foinikas

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By the way, as stated in your opening post, Thermopylae was not a Persian defeat. On the contrary, it was a resounding victory. The Persians completely annihilated the Greek force at that site and even managed to kill the Spartan King (Leonidas).

As told by Dr. Konijnendijk:


2499 years ago, approximately #OTD, the pass at Thermopylai in Central Greece became the site of one of the most famous land battles in history. You've probably heard a bunch of tall tales about it. @reeshistory and I are here to tell it a little differently.

It was a heroic struggle and a moral victory for the Greeks: 300 Spartans gave their lives for the Greek cause, killing innumerable enemies and teaching the arrogant Persians to fear the indomitable hoplite phalanx. Right?

RIGHT???

Wrong.

"300 Spartans"? Nope. There were 1000 Spartans. Probably 300 of them were full Spartan citizens, the rest perioikoi (freeborn non-citizens). There were also an unknown number of helots (possibly thousands).

Still, the allied army was TINY. Less than 10% of their available strength. Why? Spartans claimed they had been told they were going to die. It was a sacrifice. But in that case, why send so many? And why ask allies to send the same share?

More likely answer: this was all they were willing to send. Spartans hadn't marched this far north in 40 years. They weren't keen. Their allies put them up to it. Their commander was king Leonidas, aged 60, and with no victories to his name.

Leonidas came to the pass, saw Xerxes' army, and thought, "yeah, all right, I might need a few more." He put out the call - but now the Karneia and the Olympic truce were in the way. No one would come from the Peloponnese for weeks. His army of 6-7000 would have to do.

Meanwhile, nothing says the Spartans used phalanx formations at this time. No ranks and files, no tight manoeuvres. No red cloaks or lambdas on their shields. Not yet! They were just rich dudes and their enslaved servants, all mixed together.

And the Persians? A world-conquering infantry elite, the only professional soldiers at Thermopylai. Armed to the teeth, armoured in scale cuirasses. Many of their allies had even heavier gear. What chance did the Spartans have? So they built a wall. (not this one.)

The Persians attacked this wall for a few days, skirmishing with the sallying Greeks. Stalling. They were waiting for the fleet to win the battle at sea (on which more later). They were waiting to clear the goat path that would turn the pass.

We're told a Greek traitor told them about the path. Really? The Persians knew how passes worked. They had plenty of local guides. They had the Thessalians, who had turned the pass before. They could ask anyone: "Hey, is there like a path around this thing?"

Night of the second day, the Immortals clear the path around this thing. Leonidas had sent 1000 Phokians to guard it, but they fold straight away. Terror? Treason? We'll never know.

The Persians make it down in the morning. Leonidas has lost. He decides to stay and fight. Herodotos leaves no doubt: it's not a rearguard action, not a sacrifice. He's a Spartan. He's just following orders. He can't think what else to do.

The Persians surround the Spartans, Thebans and Thespiaians and finish them off. It's a great victory. 4000 Greeks are dead; only 1000 Persians. That's what witnesses told Herodotos. He refused to believe them, and claimed Xerxes hid the rest of his dead.

Xerxes is triumphant. He has won his first land battle. His men dislodged a Greek army from the strongest position in their land and killed a Spartan king. His propaganda machine has a field day. The morale of his men soars. (Probably.)

The Greeks? Not so triumphant. Parts of Phokis and Boiotia are brutally sacked. Thousands of innocents are klled or enslaved. The allies mutter about Sparta's failure and defeat. The Athenians threaten to pack up and sail to Italy. The alliance is breaking.

Sparta stays quiet in the Peloponnese. To keep their hegemony, they have only one card to play. They say noble Leonidas and his 300 Spartans gave their lives for the Greek cause.

The rest is history.
Please stop quoting weird Dutch guys 😂😂😂 I don't know,somehow the Dutch have a thing against our history and will often snub or talk trash about our past.
 

Foinikas

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much to celoborate since their indipendence from hundreds of years of being rulled by the Ottomans......so they prefare to live in a fantacy world of 2500 ears ago.

I find many nations to live in fantacy world of the past, when they dont have a bright future ahead of them.
More than 5,000 years of history,there were many victories and defeats.So many wars.
Since the independence war in 1821 we've had some great victories as well. The First and Second Balkan Wars,the World Wars. Those were all bloody conflicts.

A lot of great nations who used to be empires,fell. Hungarians,Poles,Greeks,Persians,even Turks and Russians. Isn't most of the Muslim world dreaming of the old times? Of the first Caliphs,Saladin,Suleyman I,Alamgir or even Nasser? I think it's logical for nations with great history and a glorious past,to look upon it and wish for a new golden age.
 

Raghfarm007

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More than 5,000 years of history,there were many victories and defeats.So many wars.
Since the independence war in 1821 we've had some great victories as well. The First and Second Balkan Wars,the World Wars. Those were all bloody conflicts.

A lot of great nations who used to be empires,fell. Hungarians,Poles,Greeks,Persians,even Turks and Russians. Isn't most of the Muslim world dreaming of the old times? Of the first Caliphs,Saladin,Suleyman I,Alamgir or even Nasser? I think it's logical for nations with great history and a glorious past,to look upon it and wish for a new golden age.

Well, the parts of the "Moslem world" that dreams of the past are the loser that have nothing going for them..... so they dream of an immaginery past.
Truth is that most people who want to live in the past dont even study their history.....they only make up things they wish. Greeks are a perfect example. If you look at the Greek history for example, they were never a united country, went to wars with each other and lost most of their wars with Iran, and the Romans totally destroyed them, where they were gone as an independnt country for over 2000 years!
Yet most Greeks want to live a fatacy of their Great ancestoral past. The only reason is that they havent had anything to offer in recet times, and have a very bleek future ahead of them...... so why live in the misrable reality of today, when you can live in the fantacy world of make beliefe of 2500 years ago!
I dont say this to me nasty to the Greeks, as I said I have had many Greek friends, and travelled there many time, and often been mistaken for a Greek.
My point is that living in a fancyful history of 2500 years ago is much like being high on drugs. You don´t live in the present reality, and just want to ignore the facts of today. This fancyful past doesn´t help you one bit, no matter how much you may want to pretend it was the golden age. It is rally like if your grand parents were rich, but you are poor, so instead of fixing your life, you just talk about how well your gand parents lived. It doesn´t change anything for the better in your life.

Now let me leave you with this comment. No one in history has been the superpower of its time more than Iran. They were the suerpower when the ancient Greeks were around, and after the Greeks were destroyed by Rome, Iran was till the only super power that could stand up to Rome, and even during the Ottomans, Iran became a superpower again and actually saved western Europe from being invaded by the Ottomans.... With this amazing history, should Iranians just live in the past, or try to repeat history and become a global superpower again?!!
 

One_Nation

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What I would say on this case is from my many times travellin to Greece and having had many Greek frinds.

The Greeks seem to want to live in a world of 2500 years ago... they are generally very ignorant of historic facts (especiall their many defeats). But I will not get into a historic debate, as most people really are not interested in real history.
My point here is that the Greeks haven´t had much to celoborate since their indipendence from hundreds of years of being rulled by the Ottomans......so they prefare to live in a fantacy world of 2500 ears ago.

I find many nations to live in fantacy world of the past, when they dont have a bright future ahead of them.

This is something overwhelmingly shared by Greeks and Iranians. You talk to Iranians about their country and they go back 2000 years as if it was yesterday.
Present is too humiliating for them to live in it so they like to live in the past just like Greeks. Both of them appear to be in the lowest points in their history.
This is a consequence of exaggerating history that makes people suffer.
 

SalarHaqq

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This is something overwhelmingly shared by Greeks and Iranians. You talk to Iranians about their country and they go back 2000 years as if it was yesterday.
Present is too humiliating for them to live in it so they like to live in the past just like Greeks. Both of them appear to be in the lowest points in their history.
This is a consequence of exaggerating history that makes people suffer.

If you are of the opinion that Iran is presently at its lowest point, I would suggest to conduct some in depth research on the subject, and preferably from serious sources rather than the propaganda which adversaries of the Islamic Republic have systematically been brainwashed with. Currently Iran is at its zenith since the beginning of the 18th century.

Since 1979, Iran has shaken off the yoke of several humiliating centuries of subjugation to major imperial powers and fully recovered its sovereignty and independence, ceased losing even an inch of territory as opposed to previous centuries, is projecting power across its borders in several directions, is leading a revolutionary geopolitical bloc challenging the status quo imposed by the global hegemon, it has ranked among the world's top 30 in terms of HDI growth (the UN's Human Development Index), has experienced a significant industrial, agricultural, scientific and technological boom, has become one of the most self-sufficient countries on earth capable of overcoming massive amounts of sanctions forced on it, is endowed with a type of traditionalist political system that counter-acts civilizational uprooting induced by globalization and cultural imperialism, etc.

Various challenges remain that will need to be addressed in years to come, but there's little doubt that Iran has been on a steady rise compared to the past 300 years, not to mention multiple periods of frailty throughout its history.
 
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Sainthood 101

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If you are of the opinion that Iran is presently at its lowest point, I would suggest to conduct a more in depth study of the topic, and preferably from serious objective sources rather than the propaganda which adversaries of the Islamic Republic have systematically been brainwashed with. Currently Iran is at its zenith since the beginning of the 18th century.

Since 1979, Iran has shaken off the yoke of several humiliating centuries of subjugation to major imperial powers and fully recovered its sovereignty and independence, ceased losing even an inch of its territory as opposed to previous centuries, is projecting power across its borders, is leading a revolutionary geopolitical bloc that is challenging the status quo imposed by the global hegemon, it has ranked among the world's top 30 in terms of HDI growth (the UN's Human Development Index), it has experienced a significant industrial, agricultural, scientific and technological boom, has become one of the most self-sufficient countries on earth capable of overcoming massive amounts of sanctions imposed on it, is endowed with a type of traditionalist political system which counter-acts civilizational uprooting driven by globalization and cultural imperialism, and so on.

Various challenges remain that will need to be addressed in years to come, some of them urgently, but there's little doubt that Iran has been on a steady rise compared the past 300 years, not to mention multiple periods of frailty throughout its history.
You built your fundamentals over the years,built up your capacity, did it on your own
if economy opens up

Y'all can potentially reach atleast 20-25k per Capita income (with oil probably more)

But that's why no one will let you run free imo...
Shifts power balance
 

Foinikas

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If you look at the Greek history for example, they were never a united country, went to wars with each other and lost most of their wars with Iran, and the Romans totally destroyed them, where they were gone as an independnt country for over 2000 years!
Never a united country? We were united under Phillip and Alexander,well most of the Greek city-States and kingdoms. Then we were united as the Byzantine Empire for more than a thousand years.
How did we lose most of the wars with Iran? We repelled invasions and launched a pre-emptive campaign that destroyed the Persian Empire. When the Romans conquered us,they were influenced by our culture,religion,arts and civilization so much,we were among the most priviliged people in the Roman Empire.

Now let me leave you with this comment. No one in history has been the superpower of its time more than Iran. They were the suerpower when the ancient Greeks were around, and after the Greeks were destroyed by Rome, Iran was till the only super power that could stand up to Rome, and even during the Ottomans, Iran became a superpower again and actually saved western Europe from being invaded by the Ottomans.... With this amazing history, should Iranians just live in the past, or try to repeat history and become a global superpower again?!!
The Persian Empire was a superpower in ancient times,yes. Sassanid Persia was a big power too,yes. Safavid Iran...didn't exactly save Western Europe from being invaded by the Ottomans. You may have had your wars and skirmishes,but the Ottomans' focus was on the west,not east. And the Safavids wanted a buffer between them and Christian Europe.

Modern Iran would have been a regional power with Shah Pahlavi. By 1985 Iran would have had one of the strongest militaries in the world at the time and the oil exports would have made it a leading country in the OPEC.

But...
This is something overwhelmingly shared by Greeks and Iranians. You talk to Iranians about their country and they go back 2000 years as if it was yesterday.
Present is too humiliating for them to live in it so they like to live in the past just like Greeks. Both of them appear to be in the lowest points in their history.
This is a consequence of exaggerating history that makes people suffer.
I agree in most of the post,but I don't think it's exaggerating history,it's just that people look in the past and dream of how nice it was back in the glorious days. Maybe it's something a lot of us do in Europe,the Middle-East and maybe southeast Asia too. Old Empires have fallen and new ones are currently ruling. Religion,kings and good leaders are missing from the world and have been replaced by greedy,corrupted atheists who wouldn't die for their country.
 

drmeson

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Greeks might exaggerate their victories but they did beat persians. But the worst defeat of persians were at the hands of arabs. They didn't have a chance infront of giants like Khalid ib walid RA and Saad bin abi waqas RA.

What an illiterate joke

Out of 3500 years old history of Iranics in the Iranic plateau (Indo european aryan migration started in 3rd Millenium transition phase). Semites Arabs and Jews) have barely been able to keep Iran for like 132 years ... that too in the weakest phase of Iranic empire because of constant fighting between Persian and Byzantine superpowers of that time. They weakened both and Arab nomads got in. Fair enough they ruled for what like 132 years out of our 3500 years ... and then they were kicked out ... They left zero mark on our genetic composition as Arabian J1 haplogroup is not even 3 % present in Iranic nations and that 3 % itself is from minorities like assyrian Iranians.

haplogroups of Iranics. Arabian J1 is just missing lol because their rule was for a tiny time span and it was weak to the point that iranic nation just refused to mix with Arabs.

https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0041252

There goes your whole myth of Iranics getting ruled by Arabs lol. Mind you Arabs are numerous and Persians are a tiny migrated warrior Indo European group that was not native to the land. Even today Persians are like 15 times smaller warrior group in numbers compared to semites like arabs yet they created empires that lasted millennia and were larger than what any arab or an Indic (much below Arabs in martial heirarchy) can even imagine of.

Let along persian subgroup the entire Iranics are the only group in the entire MENA region (stretching from Afghanistan to Morocco) that has preserved its genes, never been modified by any conquerer. Look at this PCA plot. A modern-day Iranian is 95 % genetic continuity of iron age Iranic

GJOZYEd.png



Out of this 3500 years old History of Indo-European Iranic nation ... you know for how many years have we ruled Arab lands ? ROFL I will tell you for how long. This is Persian Achamenid Aryan empire, Can you count how many arab countries it ruled for 3 centuries?

Achaemenid_Empire_~480_BC.png


Then Parthian Empire for 451 years.

490px-Parthian_Empire_at_its_greatest_extent.png



Then Sassanian Empire for 430 years.

800px-This_map_depicts_the_Sassanid_Empire_from_602_A.D._-_620_A.D.png


and mind you these are just Persian empires that are found by one iranic ethnicity, a tiny migrated group. Ever since the advent Irano-Turk age we have been ruling Arabs for literally centuries and fighting our wars on arab and Indic lands.

here is a fun fact for you, NO ARAB HAS SET FOOT ON IRANIC LAND for the past 13 centuries. We Irano-turks (my own ethnicity is Azeri Turk) started ruling entire Middle East, Central Asia and South asia so bad that we changed the religions and genetics of people we conquered. Why do you think you a north Indian group follow Islam and your autosomal DNA shows Iranic markers? Its because my Turko-iranic ancestors conquered your ancestors for millennia. I am assuming you are an Indic type Pakistani (majority of Pak is Indic). We started our own branch of Islam under the Qizilbash flags in 14-15th century, if we would have wanted we could have converted the entire Iranic plateau to our own tengrism or Zoroastrianism but we wanted Islam so we are Muhammad's (PBUH) warrior Muslims now. We chose our identity, our own religion because we are warrior people, not because anyone forced us. Nations built from conquered converted religions and modified genes will not understand middle eastern inner fighting.

and before you try to put any difference between us Turko-Iranics. We share region, religion, cultures and have the same GENES.
ADMIXTURE-analysis-of-autosomal-SNPs-of-the-Western-Balkan-region-in-a-global-context-on.png


Here is our Iranic-Turkic history for past 800 years. Please tell me where are the arabs ? yeah they are colonized by us (as our equals, our brothers).

7IhmUr7_JliIrTUFh2gGTvO24UNfSY3SpKkpG6XexiY.gif


for our entire history! even today we are sitting in Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Syria ... And they are our brothers, our equals. Like I said, you just can not understand, you are not middle eastern, not one of us. keep cheering for Saudi kings and their patron Americans for all we care.

map%20of%20middle%20east.JPG
 

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