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The new TAI facilities and national combat aircraft engineering center opened.

aziqbal

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The Turks have money - Pakistan does not.. simple really.

Saudi has spent billions on Boeing I dont see Saudi with such a facility

this has ZERO to do with money and EVERYTHING to do with national resolve

Turkey will not bow down and be beaten by sanctions and certainly wont bow down to foreign threats nor will Pakistan

some birds wings just can be clipped they are born free

Pak-Turk Allied Forces Brothers in Arms
 

kursed

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Incorrect - Turks have knowledge and dedication- Pakistanis do not and are lazy about both
They’re also fairly clear about their national interest. And don’t let anything disrupt them with it. Pakistan’s version of national interests is very myopic and very ad hoc.
 

dBSPL

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Turkey is a country that has already produced parts and components for hundreds of active aircraft in the world. For example, TEI is one of the world's leading institutions in blisk production. Boeing, Airbus, PW, GE etc. Turkish companies are worked for these aviation giants as suppliers and package services.

The problem was that Turkey lacked the means/courage to create its own added value to deal with these products as a whole, with its own system engineering and design skills.

Let me give you an example from otomotive industry:
Engine Blocks (Izmir), Engine Holders (Istanbul, Izmir), Pistons (Istanbul, Sivas, Bursa), Crankshafts (Istanbul, Sivas), Oil Sumps (Gemlik), Connecting Rods (Istanbul) Oil and Water Pumps (Izmir, Gemlik) ), Electronic Control Units (Gebze), Engine Covers (Istanbul, Bursa), Engine Seals (Izmir, Bursa), Fuel Hoses (Istanbul), Fuel Pipes (Kütahya, Bursa), Fuel, Oil and Air Filters (Hatay) etc. .. and hundreds of others, such components are produced in Turkey and exported directly to Germany. Or, it goes to the factories of global brands such as Toyota and Mercedes Benz in Turkey. Then Turkey imports it back with branded as mercedes or volkswagen. The added value belongs to Germany.

However, the same Germany changes its political stance on MTU engine and Renk transmissions in a main battle tank project, which is a military security issue for Turkey, and takes an embargo decision while the project continues. The same Germany can block the export of Fırtına self-propelled howitzers to Azerbaijan and Pakistan because of engines ont these vehicles.

Long story short, independence on a military scale means political independence. And political independence imposes on you industrial self-reliance.
 
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SQ8

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They’re also fairly clear about their national interest. And don’t let anything disrupt them with it. Pakistan’s version of national interests is very myopic and very ad hoc.
They’ve had ups and downs there but the core narrative hasn’t changed between their political and military “establishments”. Whereas in Pakistan the military never considers the political class their intellectual equivalent because except for a short period they’ve only dealt with assi/tussi tikkay or saien vaien corrupt variety. At least Benazir could match them toe to toe on intellectual capacity but her husband was the thorns to the rose. Heck when Nelson Mandela visited Pakistan in the 90s Nawaz Sharif could barely speak coherent sentences to him then and had someone else outside of state machinery brief him on Kashmir.Modi was having discussions with Nawaz on the side regarding expansion of his industrial base in India while 2016 Surgical strike drama was being prepared.

Selected or not the combo of IK & Moeed Yousuf has them awed in many cases but they found the upper hand again with the dismal economic performance.

Either way, it goes beyond establishment/political aspects to how well informed and how well do Turkish people know to assert their rights while also understanding Islam a hundred folds better than any collective of Pakistanis. Their aviation(and technology) industry is 30 years ahead and has actual knowledge built in - I don’t know how to sugar coat the reality for Pakistan anymore
 

JamD

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'Azm Aerospace' can absorb the Pakistani STEM talent and put them to work towards supporting the TFX in Pakistan. This can include IP development, testing work, integration work, sub-assembly manufacturing, final assembly, MRO, etc. When this entity is in full swing, I'm confident it'll need thousands of Pakistani engineers and scientists to support it, and if it branches out into supporting Pakistani satellite, drone, etc, programs, then all the better. @JamD
Ok. You write an article and I'll send it to the guy. Fair warning though: the guy doesn't like the fact that PAF made him look towards Turkey and is probably bitter at the idea that Pakistan cannot do it alone.
Pakistan has had slowly building up its aviation industry since 1970s. But money was and is the problem.
Veehhry slowly. I'm not saying money was never a problem. I'm saying that the way our "aircraft industry" operates, unlimited supply of funds would have achieved little.

The reason I put "aircraft industry" in quotes is because it is disingenuous to call PAC's Aircraft production factory that produces the JF-17 and Mushaak an industry. It's literally one factory. Sure you can debate that but I wouldn't call what we have an industry. We have a factory.

The money that we did have could've been spent to set up an actual industry. There are 100s of posts by @Bilal Khan (Quwa) on these missed opportunities. But we have been super risk averse and frankly very communist when it comes to defence. We buy. And if there are no options left we try to make in our state-owned organizations. No other option. Not very conducive for the establishment of an industry.
 
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Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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Ok. You write an article and I'll send it to the guy. Fair warning though: the guy doesn't like the fact that PAF made him look towards Turkey and is probably bitter at the idea that Pakistan cannot do it alone.
1641519508475.png


@JamD
 

Al_Muhannad

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I don't think it is THAT simple. When Pakistan had money, it chose not to invest in domestic capacity whereas Turkey leaned into that heavily. Our planners believed that Turkey was wasting time doing license manufacturing and just putting Made in Turkey labels on foreign products. However, Turkey was laying the groundwork for what you see here. Nobody can doubt their process now.

On the bright side, I do think that our planners have seen the light and the PAC Aviation city is an attempt to mimic this model. The bad news is that we are a good 20 years behind Turkey - and we are learning on the job so I won't criticize the implementation of Aviation City too much. Better late than never I guess. Also, we are in a terrible terrible place economy wise so this is a terrible time for us to start this but we have to.

In my humble opinion, the money has never been the issue. It is the SYSTEM (cultural/political) that handicaps an average Pakistani. Every thing from professional ethics to equal opportunities.
 

Indos

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Turkey is a country that has already produced parts and components for hundreds of active aircraft in the world. For example, TEI is one of the world's leading institutions in blisk production. Boeing, Airbus, PW, GE etc. Turkish companies are worked for these aviation giants as suppliers and package services.

The problem was that Turkey lacked the means/courage to create its own added value to deal with these products as a whole, with its own system engineering and design skills.

Let me give you an example from otomotive industry:
Engine Blocks (Izmir), Engine Holders (Istanbul, Izmir), Pistons (Istanbul, Sivas, Bursa), Crankshafts (Istanbul, Sivas), Oil Sumps (Gemlik), Connecting Rods (Istanbul) Oil and Water Pumps (Izmir, Gemlik) ), Electronic Control Units (Gebze), Engine Covers (Istanbul, Bursa), Engine Seals (Izmir, Bursa), Fuel Hoses (Istanbul), Fuel Pipes (Kütahya, Bursa), Fuel, Oil and Air Filters (Hatay) etc. .. and hundreds of others, such components are produced in Turkey and exported directly to Germany. Or, it goes to the factories of global brands such as Toyota and Mercedes Benz in Turkey. Then Turkey imports it back with branded as mercedes or volkswagen. The added value belongs to Germany.

However, the same Germany changes its political stance on MTU engine and Renk transmissions in a main battle tank project, which is a military security issue for Turkey, and takes an embargo decision while the project continues. The same Germany can block the export of Fırtına self-propelled howitzers to Azerbaijan and Pakistan because of engines ont these vehicles.

Long story short, independence on a military scale means political independence. And political independence imposes on you industrial self-reliance.

Erdogan has good ambition on the engineering and defense industry ambition, he spend a lot of money in Turkish defense industry

National combat aircraft engineering center
New composite production facilities
Factory Level Component Maintenance and Repair Center new facility
Space Systems Engineering Center new facility





Important day for the defense industry: Critical facilities will be opened today


January 6, 2022

in World
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The official opening of the facilities, including the National Combat Aircraft (MMU) Engineering Center and the Composite Production Building, which will increase Turkey’s claim in the aviation industry, will be held today.
A ceremony will be held today for the Engineering Center of the MMU Project, which is carried out under the coordination of the Presidency of Defense Industries, as well as a number of facilities that have been completed in Turkish Aerospace Industries (TUSAŞ).
President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is expected to attend the ceremony to be held at TAI.
2 thousand 300 people will be employed in the center
The MMU Engineering Center, which will be opened, was created with an investment of 220 million lira. 2 thousand 300 people will work in the center where “Turkey’s survival project” will be managed.
Equipped with high security solutions and technologies, the engineers will be able to carry out all their activities inside the building without being dependent on the outside.
The MMU Building, which has an area of 65 thousand square meters, also includes social areas such as a sports center, dining hall and autonomous library.
Photo: AA

[Fotoğraf: AA]
It will be the biggest in Turkey
An investment of 412 million TL was made for the Composite Production Building and auxiliary facilities to be officially opened.
The building in question is Turkey’s largest composite facility and the world’s 4th largest composite facility under a single roof.
The Composite Production Building consists of 19 blocks, including the main production, paint shop and auxiliary buildings.
150 engineers and 850 technicians will work at the facility, which has the capacity to meet 2 percent of the world’s air structural composites market.
Space Systems Engineering Center was completed in 390 days
Space Systems Engineering (USM) Center was completed in 390 days with an investment of 31 million TL.
The center, which was established for design activities and hardware production in the field of space, includes open offices, meeting rooms, “class 10 thousand” and “class 100 thousand” clean rooms, dining hall, hardware and software laboratories and conference hall.
718 people will work at USM, which includes system, software and hardware design, production, integration and test laboratories.
Domestic and national solutions for aircraft
The Factory Level Component Maintenance Repair Control Center was built with an investment of 53 million lira and will employ 510 people.
The design and production processes that will ensure 100% nationality of all kinds of vehicles and equipment to be used in the operation of aircraft will be carried out at the center.
Engineering studies will be carried out for national capabilities aiming to eliminate foreign dependency, and domestic capabilities will be created at the center.


16 factories will be opened
Ankara Aerospace and Aviation Specialized Organized Industrial Zone (HAB OSB), as the first specialized organized industrial zone in the defense industry, continues its activities on an area of 730 hectares right next to TUSAŞ.
With HAB, it is aimed to support the domestic industry in the fields of space and aviation, to bring together local and foreign companies to create synergy, and to produce high value-added products and increase exports.
The first part of the infrastructure works planned to be built in 2 parts in the OIZ has been completed. In the second part of the infrastructure business, the level of 90 percent was reached. Work is scheduled to be completed in the first half of this year.
150 out of 152 industrial parcels were allocated in the region. With the service support parcels, 90 percent of the total parcel area has been filled. There are 18 facilities in HAB that have been completed and invested by industrialists, and 57 facilities are still under construction.
At the ceremony, the official opening of 16 factories and HAB OSB Management Building will be held. When HAB is completed, it will host 300 enterprises, 150 of which are industrial establishments, and 15 thousand people will be employed when it is fully operational.
The establishment of the TEKNOHAB Technology Development Zone, where companies will carry out their R&D studies, continues in the special area within the borders of HAB. TEKNOHAB attracts many national and international companies, important research institutions and technology giants to the region; With the support of universities, relevant institutions and organizations in the region, it will offer special opportunities for the production and development of new and advanced technology.




MMU is not just an aircraft project. It is the vision that will turn the idea of independent and internationally competitive aviation into reality.

Look like they build main office (that include design office) and component part manufacturing away from final assembling facility since I dont see any runway on the facility.
 

dBSPL

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Look like they build main office (that include design office) and component part manufacturing away from final assembling facility since I dont see any runway on the facility.
TAI Kahramankazan Central Campus is spread over an area of 4 million square meters. In the previous posts, you can see the additional buildings built next to this campus and the structures that are partly within the Ankara Aerospace and Aviation Specialized Organized Industrial Zone (HAB OSB). Our topic is the ecosystem and aviation city created for MMU rather than TAI's current campus.


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In addition, Mürted Air Base, right next to TAI facilities, has been allocated to TAI's use.
57594.jpg
 

dBSPL

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RTE (Turkish Presidency): "Now it's time for our country's largest defense industry project, MMU. Inshallah, in 2023, we will take MMU out of the hangar and show it to the whole world." (...) "Our expectation from TAI is to bring Turkiye to a level that can compete with the world in the aviation industry."

Akar (Secretary of Defence): Our strategies will further strengthen our indigenous and national capabilities in our defense industry. (MMU) will move our country to a higher class in the field of technology. MMU has a much greater meaning beyond developing a platform and weapon system for our country.

Demir (Presidency of Defense Industries): "We should not forget that our national technology move is the seeds we plant for the future. If something is a human product, we must act with the belief that we can do better."

Kotil (TAI GM): "We are not only in Turkey, we(TAI family) are spreading to the world. Our easternmost office is in Malaysia. We are in Pakistan, we are in Frankfurt, we are in London, we are in France, we are in America. The sun does not set on our company."

"We asked for an unmanned aerial vehicle, they did not give it. We made Anka, Bayraktar, Akıncı and Aksungur. We asked for munitions, they did not give it. We made MAM, SOM, Teber. We asked for missiles, they didn't. We made BORA, ATMACA and BOZDOGAN. We asked for an Air Defense System, they did not give it. We bought it from another country in the first place. We have done the HİSARs for now, we will soon complete the SIPER and more. They put an embargo on the camera we use in drones. They thought that TR could not be able to use these UAVs with these obstacles. We made it with our systems. It is to this determination that we owe our ability to comfortably carry out counter-terrorism operations within our borders and to carry out our cross-border peace operations as we wish. The heavy class attack helicopter, which is an upper class of the ATAK project, which we export, continues. Deliveries are starting this year in GOKBEY, our first original helicopter project. ANKA-II AKSUNGUR is in the sky. Together with other UAVs, our place in the world is getting stronger. While the deliveries of the trainer aircraft HURKUS continue, the production activities of HURJET, the first jet engine original aircraft of our country, continue."

"Now it's time for our country's largest defense industry project, MMU. The MMU Engineering Center, which we came together to open, will be the heart of the National combat aircraft project."
 
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