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The most realistic air superiority option for PAF

CriticalThought

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No one is broadcasting a false narrative. Its what you want to believe.
Finances are part and parcel of attaining aforementioned "air superiority in the most realistic scenario".

PS. How do you hide behind a drone in your view? How fast does a jet fighter fly compared to any drone PAF has that are all small and propeller driven?? (as you said, earlier, buying new weapons isnt what this thread is about)
But creating new weapons is. And who says the drones will be flying along side? They can provide an airspace from which PAF can launch strikes.
 

randomradio

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1. Is the time of flight to target 0 for Indian SAMs?
Don't see the relevance. You can't outrun these missiles.

2. At what distance from the border will they be at risk from long range artillery, and behind enemy lines covert ops?
This stuff is not so easy to pull off. Or else nothing can survive PA's artillery and covert ops anyway, let alone SAMs.

You will need an army to break into an air base during wartime. Especially ones holding critical assets like the long range SAMs.

I mean, if Israeli jets can hide behind commercial planes, why can't PAF jets hide behind drones?
Radars can tell. So can optical sensors.
 

GriffinsRule

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But creating new weapons is. And who says the drones will be flying along side? They can provide an airspace from which PAF can launch strikes.
I think you should state clearly what you mean to avoid confusion. You said, "I mean, if Israeli jets can hide behind commercial planes, why can't PAF jets hide behind drones?"

Even your statement above makes little sense to me? Drone will provide airspace to launch strikes?

Anyways, sure PAF will have to employ all weapons, from guided bombs to cruise missiles to whatever else. Except just taking out runways isn't going to do diddly squat. I already gave you the scenario. Destroy 10-15 squadrons of IAF on the ground and you will have a chance to maintain air superiority over Pakistan. How or even if it is possible to accomplish, that is another matter.
 

CriticalThought

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Don't see the relevance. You can't outrun these missiles.



This stuff is not so easy to pull off. Or else nothing can survive PA's artillery and covert ops anyway, let alone SAMs.

You will need an army to break into an air base during wartime. Especially ones holding critical assets like the long range SAMs.



Radars can tell. So can optical sensors.
Right. Aerial warfare is clearly not your forte.
 

nahtanbob

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Is it better to fly an inferior plane or a compromised plane? I also question this disparaging attitude towards Chinese products. Per info by @Oscar, even the Block 52 is having trouble detecting the Thunder on RWR.
Either china has to fight a war or a country has to use chinese supplied aircraft to win wars
 

CriticalThought

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I think you should state clearly what you mean to avoid confusion. You said, "I mean, if Israeli jets can hide behind commercial planes, why can't PAF jets hide behind drones?"

Even your statement above makes little sense to me? Drone will provide airspace to launch strikes?

Anyways, sure PAF will have to employ all weapons, from guided bombs to cruise missiles to whatever else. Except just taking out runways isn't going to do diddly squat. I already gave you the scenario. Destroy 10-15 squadrons of IAF on the ground and you will have a chance to maintain air superiority over Pakistan. How or even if it is possible to accomplish, that is another matter.
This particular track in our little discussion started from my response about long range radars. Why are you bringing in airbases now?

Any flying object that shows up on radar creates a physical barrier. Another object behind it will not be detected. A large group of flying drones can act as a physical barrier.

Either china has to fight a war or a country has to use chinese supplied aircraft to win wars
Which war did America win in modern times against a technologically advanced enemy?
 

GriffinsRule

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This particular track in our little discussion started from my response about long range radars. Why are you bringing in airbases now?

Any flying object that shows up on radar creates a physical barrier. Another object behind it will not be detected. A large group of flying drones can act as a physical barrier.



Which war did America win in modern times against a technologically advanced enemy?
Bringing them in because attacking airbases equates to the only realistic way imo for PAF to attain air superiority.
But man I am totally confused now with your reasoning so my last post on this thread. You are implying, say hundreds or thousands of drones flying in front of the PAF fighters to provide them with cover, as in hide them from enemy radars. Assuming that is even true, by that logic wouldn't the IAF be invisible to PAF jets as well since the drones would be in the way for our radars too as a physical barrier!? (assuming IAF can't just fly at different altitudes to look over or under the array of these flying drones)
Anyways, goodluck with your thought experiments.
 

CriticalThought

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Bringing them in because attacking airbases equates to the only realistic way imo for PAF to attain air superiority.
But man I am totally confused now with your reasoning so my last post on this thread. You are implying, say hundreds or thousands of drones flying in front of the PAF fighters to provide them with cover, as in hide them from enemy radars. Assuming that is even true, by that logic wouldn't the IAF be invisible to PAF jets as well since the drones would be in the way for our radars too as a physical barrier!? (assuming IAF can't just fly at different altitudes to look over or under the array of these flying drones)
Anyways, goodluck with your thought experiments.
You have very poor comprehension skills. Or, you pointedly make the poorest interpretations of my words. In any case, you do yourself a disservice.

Now I am going to force you to actually think. Go back and show me where I have said that PAF aircraft will be hiding behind drones in order to target IAF aircraft in the air?
 

TOPGUN

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Israeli weapons don't become more lethal because it acts like a school yard bully. American weapons haven't really been tested against a technologically advanced enemy. Here is the effectiveness of American weapons: a Chinese airplane buzzes their advanced surveillance plane, forcing it to land. The Chinese keep the crew and plane for as long as they like before returning them. And this happened at the very beginning of Bush Jr's term. The man who laid waste to Afghanistan and Iraq.

Our perceptions arise from the depth of our own knowledge. If someone isnt a Goldsmith, he cannot ascertain the purity of gold. So he follows the natural human inclination to seek out the widely accepted authority. If there is only one such authority, it can pass muck as gold and everyone will believe them. The Chinese have the depth and confidence to challenge the status quo established by the current schoolyard bullies. In order to truly guage things, we first need to arm ourselves with depth of knowledge.



Well, I am out to change that mind. So wish me luck.



I am mad enough to try and make a change. Bang my head against a wall if I must. Because I won't be able to forgive myself if I didn't even try.
Go for it admire your passion ;)
 

randomradio

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I think you should state clearly what you mean to avoid confusion. You said, "I mean, if Israeli jets can hide behind commercial planes, why can't PAF jets hide behind drones?"

Even your statement above makes little sense to me? Drone will provide airspace to launch strikes?
He doesn't know what he's talking about.

He's confused Syria's lack of an IFF with actual tactics.
 

ziaulislam

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Something important to consider:


The entire Pakistani Northern and Central Command air bases are within the two long range SAM rings.

The region between Peshawar to Multan and the Indian border is of utmost importance to Pakistan and most of the action that will happen will be within the range of active IAF SAMs, including their AWACS base in Peshawar.

So what do you propose Pakistan should do in such a situation?
Basically it means you have zero knowledge how sams work..

Had it been so easy every country would have bought 8-9 sam system and say good bye....

These sams will be taken out very quickly by opposition air force ..sam can't read low flying plans/over the horizon ..india has not many awecs even it does there are several other counter measures

there arsenal of 40-60 very long range missles will be easily jammed in their terminal phase by AWECs..

they will suppressed by SEAD missions..

we saw this happening so easily in syria..

Bigger threat will be doing strike missions in presence of sam and opposition combined strength

Reality is really second tier thing..india should have first solved its IAF problems
 

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