What's new

The martyrs of the Tirah Valley

Jango

SENIOR MODERATOR
Sep 12, 2010
16,064
24
18,193
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I was specifically referring to this:


Dozens of your soldiers are being killed by the terrorists. They are being beheaded and mutilated like this video and still he was questioning himself if it's ok to fight his "brothers"!!??
Some people do think like this at first thanks to the media perception created, but then all fall in line...the young and old folks up there are very well motivated to fight these Talibastards
 

dabong1

<b>PDF VETERAN</b>
Nov 28, 2006
4,417
1
1,239
it is a non-sense war, muslims are fighting against muslims...
The police(muslims) die every day fighting against criminals(muslims) who are also killed by the police(muslims)......should we tell the police to stop chasing criminals as after all they are our muslims brothers?
In any society we have laws and rules that we must follow and depending on how far the criminal is willing to go ,you will get a greater response from the govt.


The enemy for soldiers is not clear one, some of them are described to them as good and other bad, though all look, behave and act similarly....some members of this taliban phenomena are mujahideens when they fight against NATO but some of them are terrorists when they fight against pak army...
You have the US army in afghanistan and the "taliban-mujahideens" think that they should the pakistani army to free afghanistan.....makes total sense.
Even mullah omar told the TTP not to attack pak army but instead come to afghanistan and fight there.

Musharaf, a potential qadiani according to some sources, started this.
A lot of sources say that the TTP are jews- Kharijites-CIA agents ect.


according to hamid gul is very distant from religion...he turned a peaceful FATA into a warzone for american dollars.
I dont recall mushy saying he was some sort of religious leader and its a bit rich coming from hamid gul that mushy turned FATA into a war zone and took US dollars...wasn't that the same thing he did during zia era?



As if guided by an inner intuition, Waseem this time paid a short visit to his ancestral home in Islamabad to seek permission for going for Jihad in the line of duty, before the last mission of his life.“It is binding upon us to seek permission from parents before proceeding for Jihad,” he had said. After acquiring that permission from his mother, he loudly said goodbye to all, briskly walked to the vehicle waiting outside his home, and never looked back.


We need the mullahs to come out and give a united fatwa that this war is a jihad and that we are fighting against the enemies of islam.
 
Jun 23, 2010
5,341
-29
4,874
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Some people do think like this at first thanks to the media perception created, but then all fall in line...the young and old folks up there are very well motivated to fight these Talibastards
In my opinion common pakistani do not know much about islam and has left it to mullahs and other religous entities....pakistani soldiers like public have nominal knowledge of islam, when religous taliban declare them jahanami or some thing like that, then inside they are worried whether they will go to jannat or not if they are killed...such confusion always arises when a muslim fights with muslim....especially if your opponent is religous one fighting with religous zeal....none of the deobandi aalim has supported pak army against taliban...any pak army sipahi with deobandi background would be conflicted inside to varying extent, he would be just obeying orders....
 

haviZsultan

ELITE MEMBER
Jul 30, 2007
9,045
36
10,894
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Arab Emirates
According to statistics released by ISPR, around 2,400 personnel lost their lives and another 6,500 were wounded just in 2009-2010. In comparison, US/Nato forces in the region combined had a casualty figure of approximately 1,600. This shows the high price being paid by the Pakistani nation to eliminate terrorism. Sadly, it is a sacrifice that is rarely acknowledged and even in Pakistan, we rarely hear of the names behind the numbers.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/252783-martyrs-tirah-valley.html#ixzz2TYwdpvfv
I found this part very interesting. Pakistan has struggled harder against terrorism than any country in the world. Pakistan has fought hard against the terrorists. Yet there is the constant mantra of do more do more. Pakistan should continue its struggle against terrorism and beat the terrorists back to whereever they came from in Afghanistan. However it should clearly take action against the TTP first before we take action against the Haqqanis and the Hekmatyars.
 

jabalultariq

FULL MEMBER
Feb 24, 2011
118
0
80
Feel sorry for the deceased army soldiers and their families...it is a non-sense war, muslims are fighting against muslims...
The enemy for soldiers is not clear one, some of them are described to them as good and other bad, though all look, behave and act similarly....some members of this taliban phenomena are mujahideens when they fight against NATO but some of them are terrorists when they fight against pak army...
Musharaf, a potential qadiani according to some sources, started this. He was dancing in night clubs, and act more like mirasi than syed and according to hamid gul is very distant from religion...he turned a peaceful FATA into a warzone for american dollars.
Yes Mushi was a brute
Yes we are fighting the war FOR United States
NO : You cannot call them mujahideen or anything sacred - they are evil, misguided and they kill innocents without any remorse !
 

CENTCOM

PROFESSIONAL
Apr 30, 2010
1,519
34
2,436
Country
United States
Location
United States
Brave soldiers lay down their lives so that a nation can live in freedom and dignity. Our hearts go out to the Seven year old daughter of the martyred Major, and we whole heartedly commend his bravery and his ultimate sacrifice for his nation. Pakistan as a nation is fighting a war against homegrown insurgents who are diligently working on destabilizing the nation. We just witnessed an unprecedented turnout in the elections last week despite the terrorists repeated warnings. It was a strong message from a brave nation, to the threatening coward, that we will not let you force us into hiding. We look forward to continuing our partnership against our common enemies. We stand shoulder to shoulder with our Pakistani friends in their quest for peace.


Abdul Quddus
DET-United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command
 

Xestan

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 25, 2009
2,264
3
3,279
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
TTP aren't Kafir because they still believe in the One God & His Prophet (PBUH) even if they've torn to shreds the very message of Islam !

There is a better word for them - Kharjites !
And according to the Sahih Hadith, Kharijies are worse than Kafirs. Their only treatment is sword. Rasul Allah [S.A.W] ordered Muslims to wage Jihad against such groups.
 
Jun 23, 2010
5,341
-29
4,874
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I found this part very interesting. Pakistan has struggled harder against terrorism than any country in the world. Pakistan has fought hard against the terrorists. Yet there is the constant mantra of do more do more. Pakistan should continue its struggle against terrorism and beat the terrorists back to whereever they came from in Afghanistan. However it should clearly take action against the TTP first before we take action against the Haqqanis and the Hekmatyars.
America has killed nek mohammad, baitullah mehsud and other TTP guys for you. On the other hand pakistan is having double standards and is allowing haqqani network to openly operate in FATA and three settled districts including my lakki marwat.
 

Xestan

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 25, 2009
2,264
3
3,279
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
America has killed nek mohammad, baitullah mehsud and other TTP guys for you. On the other hand pakistan is having double standards and is allowing haqqani network to openly operate in FATA and three settled districts including my lakki marwat.
Well, killing Nek Muhammad wasn't ny service to us. Actually, it proved to be a counter-productive action. Pakistan never asked for it. And Baitullah Mehsud, Americans killed him mistakenly, and some analysts have written that CIA was tricked by the ISI in killing Baitullah Mehsud.

Hundreds of Drone attacks, still you can just name 3-4 wanted terrorists for Pakistan who have been killed. Americans have always tried to worsen the situation instead of helping us.
 

FaujHistorian

ELITE MEMBER
Apr 20, 2011
12,272
43
13,506
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
And according to the Sahih Hadith, Kharijies are worse than Kafirs. Their only treatment is sword. Rasul Allah [S.A.W] ordered Muslims to wage Jihad against such groups.

Hi Xestan bro,

Even though you are correct.

But you have gotten yourself into a classic Mullah trap. Where they make a reference to Islam, and then we start making references to Quran Hadees.

As soon as this happens, they have sucked us into their home turf and home team advantage.

No one can compete with much longer beard and jubba and pagri when it comes to religious discussion.

They will most likely win, and if they loose, they will immediately declare you Kafir or blasphemer.




So what do we do, what do we do?

what the heck we the Pak nationalists do.

How do we respond.


Well it is very difficult. Obviously. Duh!

to ague with someone who drags Islam in this discussion.


The best we can do is come up with some strategy that is based on the law of the land.

If anyone violates law of the land, for example attacks a police officer or Army jawan, he has committed crime against Pakistan.

And thus liable to whatever punishment is there in the law.

May be there is a better argument. But so far I have not seen it.



peace
 

Xestan

SENIOR MEMBER
Sep 25, 2009
2,264
3
3,279
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Hi Xestan bro,

Even though you are correct.

But you have gotten yourself into a classic Mullah trap. Where they make a reference to Islam, and then we start making references to Quran Hadees.

As soon as this happens, they have sucked us into their home turf and home team advantage.

No one can compete with much longer beard and jubba and pagri when it comes to religious discussion.

They will most likely win, and if they loose, they will immediately declare you Kafir or blasphemer.




So what do we do, what do we do?

what the heck we the Pak nationalists do.

How do we respond.


Well it is very difficult. Obviously. Duh!

to ague with someone who drags Islam in this discussion.


The best we can do is come up with some strategy that is based on the law of the land.

If anyone violates law of the land, for example attacks a police officer or Army jawan, he has committed crime against Pakistan.

And thus liable to whatever punishment is there in the law.

May be there is a better argument. But so far I have not seen it.



peace
Well, I feel otherwise, religious extremism can only be defeated through the use of correct religious knowledge. See, soldiers too use them. And trust me, I never lost a debate to a Mullah ;) And I know how to deal with them.

Islam taught us how to deal with rebels like these and I see nothing wrong in using the same principles of Islam. Bottomline is, I'm quite religious :)
 

TalibanSwatter

FULL MEMBER
May 27, 2009
912
0
664
And according to the Sahih Hadith, Kharijies are worse than Kafirs. Their only treatment is sword. Rasul Allah [S.A.W] ordered Muslims to wage Jihad against such groups.
Another description for the enemy would be Salafi - the Kharjites all those centuries ago originated from the same region - strangely appropriate coincidence.
 

dabong1

<b>PDF VETERAN</b>
Nov 28, 2006
4,417
1
1,239
The element of Khawarij is unforgettable in the history of terrorism. The question arises: who were Khawarij? What does the Islamic law ordain about them? Are the present day terrorists a continuation of Khawarij?

&#8226; The Khawarij were the rebels and apostates of Islam. Their advent took place during the period of the Prophethood (blessings and peace be upon him). Their intellectual growth and organized emergence took place in the Osmani and Alvi periods respectively. These Khawarij were so punctual and regular in performance of religious rituals and acts of worship that they would appear more pious than the holy Companions would at times. However, in keeping with the manifest command of the Holy Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him), they were absolutely out of the fold of Islam. The Khawarij would not only regard the killing of Muslims as lawful, reject the Companions for their disagreement with them, raise the slogan 'there is no Command but Allah's', consider the launch of armed struggle and killing against Hazrat Ali (ra) as lawful, but would also keep on perpetrating these heinous actions. These Khawarij were in fact the first terrorist and rebellious group that challenged the writ of state and raised the banner of armed struggle against a Muslim state. The texts of Hadith clearly establish that such elements would continue to be born in every age. By Khawarij is not meant merely a group which took up arms against the rightly guided Caliphs, but it encompasses all those groups and individuals bearing such attributes, ideologies and terrorist way of action who would continue to rear their head and perpetrate terrorism in the name of Jihad till the Day of Judgment. Despite being almost perfectionist in the performance of manifest religious rituals, they would be considered as being out of the fold of Islam for their wrong and misplaced ideology. A Muslim state cannot be allowed to give them any concession in the name of dialogue or stop the military action without their complete elimination in the light of instructions of the Holy Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him). The only exception when they can be spared is that they lay down their arms, repent of their actions and vow to honour the state laws and writ of the Muslim state.

The Khawarij, even today, invoke Islam and raise slogan to establish the Divine Order, but all of their actions and steps constitute a clear violation of Islamic teachings. When their supporters do not have any legal argument to defend the actions of Khawarij, they draw the attention of people to the vices of the ruling elites and oppression of the imperialist forces as a justification for their killing. They feel contented that though the terrorists are doing wrong things, their intention is good beyond any doubt. This is a major intellectual faux pas and people, both educated and uneducated, suffer from this doubt. An evil act remains evil in all its forms and contents.

Good intention can never change a vice into virtue

If some good intention motivates bloodshed and massacre, the question arises whether tyranny and barbarism can be declared lawful on this basis. Some people think that though suicide explosions are atrociously evil, killing of innocent people too is a monstrous crime, spreading mischief and strife in the country is again a heinous act, while destruction of educational, training, industrial, commercial and welfare centers and institutions is still a greater sin, the suicide bombers are doing that with good intention and pious motive. Therefore, they are justified. They are retaliating foreign terrorism against Muslims. They are doing a Jihad. So, they cannot be given any blame.
The Quran says:

&#8220;(Say to the people &#8216;Listen, sincere obedience and worship is only All&#257;h&#8217;s due. And those (disbelievers) who have taken (idols as) helpers other than All&#257;h (say in false justification of their idol-worship:&#8216;We worship them only that they may bring us near to All&#257;h.&#8217; Surely, All&#257;h will judge between them concerning the matter in which they differ. Certainly All&#257;h does not give him guidance who is a liar, very ungrateful.&#8221; (Al-Quran, 39-3)

When the idolaters of Makka were asked the reason of idol-worship, they said the idols would get them into Allah&#8217;s proximity. The intention to attain to Allah&#8217;s nearness is good, but idol-worship is blasphemy and disbelief. The idolatry, therefore, cannot be justified because of good intention.

Similarly, the terrorists&#8217; claim of reformation too cannot be accepted because, practically, they prove bloodshed and violence instead of some constructive work and reformation.
English Books > Fatwa on Terrorism and Suicide Bombings - Islamic Library
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom