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The making of the Kargil disaster Excerpts from Nasim Zehra's book, 'From Kargil To The Coup: Events

Bagheera

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Those who were born in the 1980s onwards in India didn't carry the same baggage of partition and wars with Pakistan. I even remember in school, when India was out of the 1992 world cup most kids supported Pakistan because they were Asians against British in the finals.
Are you fibbing? I remember just four years later in 1996 world cup the Indo-Pak match was watched with intense hatred.
 

Jackdaws

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Jog your memory. I think the hatred was there even before during the run-up to that match.
Not in my immediate circle, nor was it as pervasive as it is now or was after Kargil. Kargil was followed by attack on Lok Sabha. Anyways, you are entitled to your views.
 

Baghial

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by the way, what is clearly documented (by Altaf Gauhar in newspaper articles if I remember correctly) is his positive role in another fiasco: when Zia was President the army considered an early version of the Kargil plan that Musharraf later put into effect. General Yaqub Khan was Zia’s foreign minister at that time and opposed the plan in a cabinet meeting and it was dropped because of his opposition.
He may have been similarly prescient about 1971, but the details remain murky. For the sake of history, it would be good to find out exactly what happened and when

A LITTEL OF HISTORY AND ITS IRONIARY ON PAKISTAN

A number of Indian and British officers were captured by Italians in Middle East theatre in May 1942. All three commanding officers of the regiments of 3rd Indian Motor Brigade; Lt. Colonel Fowler CO of 18th Cavalry, Lt. Colonel De Salis CO of 2nd Lancers and Lt. Colonel P. R. Tathem CO of 11th PAVO Cavalry were bagged by Italians. In the Aversa POW camp in Italy, a very strange chapter of Indian military history was recorded. Italian commander of the POW camp, Colonel Errera appointed several Indian officers for management of prisoners. These officers of different faiths and ethnicities were fighting under the flag of British Indian army and were now prisoners. Major Kumaramangalam (2nd Field Regiment) being the senior most officer was appointed commanding officer of the camp. Captain Yahya Khan (4/10 Baluch Regiment, now 11 Baloch of Pakistan army) was camp Adjutant and his assistant was Lieutenant Shamsher Singh. Captain Tikka Khan (2nd Field Regiment) was Quarter Master. Other inmates of the camp were Yaqub Khan (18th Cavalry), Major Ajit Singh (Royal Indian Army Service Corps), Captain Kalyan Singh (2nd Field Regiment), Captain A. S. Naravane (2nd Field Regiment), Lieutenant Abhey Singh (18th Cavalry) and Lieutenant Sardar Hissamuddin Mahmud el-Effendi (11th PAVO Cavalry). Many officers of this POW camp later played important part in the history of India and Pakistan. The Italian Colonel of the POW camp could not have imagined that he was holding a whole crop of future high power society. This camp has the world record of holding so many future senior officers under its roof. Kumaramangalam escaped from Italy but captured by Germans and was their guest for few years. He later became Chief of Army Staff of India (1966-69). Yahya Khan rose to become Pakistan army chief and then President (1966-71). In 1971, Tikka Khan was Commander of Eastern Command and later became Pakistan army chief (1972-76). 2nd Field Regiment of artillery can be proud to have two army chiefs of rival India and Pakistan. Yaqub Khan became Lieutenant General and served as commander of Eastern Command during the fateful days of 1971. After retirement he served as ambassador at several important posts and Foreign Minister of Pakistan. Hissam rose to the rank of Brigadier in Pakistan army. Ajit Singh rose in the ranks to become Lieutenant General, Kalyan Singh and Naravane became Major Generals and Shamsher Singh Brigadier in Indian army.
 

Bagheera

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Not in my immediate circle, nor was it as pervasive as it is now or was after Kargil. Kargil was followed by attack on Lok Sabha. Anyways, you are entitled to your views.
Look recollect.. When India didn’t qualify for finals to be played in Lahore, many felt a bit relieved because it was thought to be dangerous for Indians to play in Pakistan. What does that mean?
 

Jackdaws

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Look recollect.. When India didn’t qualify for finals to be played in Lahore, many felt a bit relieved because it was thought to be dangerous for Indians to play in Pakistan. What does that mean?
In 1996?
I don't think there was an issue.
 

Bagheera

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In 1996?
I don't think there was an issue.
I am citing incidents after incidents yet you cannot recall. Maybe your parents and other elders insulated you from all that hatred.. Never discussed these things in your presence.

@Jackdaws

Look another one here:

Inzamam teased by an Indian spectator. Remember?
 

Jackdaws

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I am citing incidents after incidents yet you cannot recall. Maybe your parents and other elders insulated you from all that hatred.. Never discussed these things in your presence.

@Jackdaws

Look another one here:

Inzamam teased by an Indian spectator. Remember?
Yes, I was actually at the Toronto Cricket and Curling club then, if that's the incident you are referring to.
 

!eon

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No doubt, Musharraf's Kargil adventure is a big question mark. Equally big as 71 surrender.
But this is Pakistan and no one is allowed to ask any question from holy cows
 

ramu

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Why are there attempts to keep army away from what's their basic task!
Kashmir is the unfinished agenda and Pakistan army should go for it again and again.
If army will not attempt than it's naturally people taking it in their hands.
Kashmir must be taken! and now after carrying out so much terrorism in Pakistan... revenge with India is also over due.
If any one is in disagreement... he/she should go and ask the kids of dead soldiers and ask the parents of APS kids.
The kids of dead soldiers should ask who started Kargil when Vajpayee and Nawaz Sharif had a composite dialogue with bus diplomacy shaping up. Vajpayee visited Minare Pakisthan. What more proof you wanted for sincerity to solve all outstanding disputes. That opportunity is long lost.

There is no hyphenation of Pak anymore with India. Pakistan is in its own league and India has choosen a path to address poverty, improve ease of doing business and develop infrastructure. We won't bother with Pakistan as there are more important things to do.

If Pak fiddles with India, there is no country man enough to stop it from decimating Pak this time around. The leadership is not the same. Note.
 

Amalek

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Jog your memory. I think the hatred was there even before during the run-up to that match.
Level of animosity depended on where you lived. In my area, supporting Pakistani team or celebrating their victory against other non - Indian teams was possible to some extent.

Things changed after the Kargil war where I had to stop wearing green shirts or tshirts because green had become an enemy colour for the public.
 

Bagheera

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Yes, I was actually at the Toronto Cricket and Curling club then, if that's the incident you are referring to.
You mean to say same day and same match in which that aloo (potato) incident happened? How was the general mood of the spectators?

By the way, Inzamam does look like potato.
 

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