• Thursday, January 30, 2020

The Hybrid War On Hybrid War In Pakisan

Discussion in 'Strategic & Foreign Affairs' started by Mangus Ortus Novem, May 5, 2019.

  1. Hakikat ve Hikmet

    Hakikat ve Hikmet ELITE MEMBER

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    Some perspectives from the Turkish understanding/POV etc.:

    • It’s a thousand years old issue since Alparslan ventured into Anatolia. Fighting’s going on ever since. It varies in phases and degrees but not in kind. From a net resultant point of view, the Turkish folks have been the winners
    • Turkish media has been tamed after around 150 years!!! The big businesses have curtailed their proxy games. Judiciary is straightened up to a great extent
    • Coups by the Imperialists are going in in different forms. The most recent one in the election front with fake votes has been quashed to an extent. Economic one is on-going
    • Threatening with sanctions from the West to stop domestic defense production is falling on deaf ears
    • Proxy terrorists PKK etc. - funded by some brainless ME creatures - are being pounded and destroyed on an hourly basis using indegenous solutions
    • In the domestic front “zero tolerance” approach is being pursued. An empty house is better than a bad tenant
    Bottom-line: Sabr and Shukr under the relentless Mujadele against these Satanic forces

    La Galibe Illallah....
     
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  2. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

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  3. Signalian

    Signalian PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    I will try my best to answer you and I apologize in advance if i have not understood you correctly. Lets advance alongside your two points:

    1. Morale, confusion, division - caused by frustration of enemy.

    The Russia-USA example of elections is there. The Turkish-Erdogan coup example is there. Wars instigated through internet, since information spreads faster through internet than word of mouth, faster than print media, faster than News Channel on TV even. Internet is a tool, tools can be carved into weapons; offensive and defensive both.
    A recent example is also Feb 2019, tension created in Pulwama resulting in a dog fight. If the IAF strike inside AJK is also counted, then the war actually lasted for around 45-60 minutes, including the dog fight where IAF lost planes.
    lets try to understand what is war?
    A. Pulwama incident - till 25 feb 2019
    B. The IAF strike, PAF response and the dog fight over Kashmir.
    C. 27 feb 2019 - till now

    Category B is definitely war, then what are category A and C ?

    Category A is the Propaganda war through media (Internet, News channels, Lobbying, Printed newspapers); which ensures that some sort of incident of war takes place. It has effects of morale boosting, blaming enemy (Pakistan), creating hype in own nation etc under its sphere.

    Category C is the Information war through media(Cyber warfare, Internet, News channels, Lobbying, Printed newspapers); which ensures that enemy's (Pakistan) narrative is wrong, spread misinformation, create doubts, make the enemy (Pakistan) youth question its leaders decisions etc. Now here the frustration comes in-> Failure in this category was turning the nation (Pakistan's population) against its Armed Forces, because PAF brought down IAF aircraft's. This is necessary to be done in case of Pakistan; its a must to create divide between Military and the population to make Pakistan weak.


    2.
    Pakistan's society is learning and getting accustomed to 5GW. There are news articles about 5th GW and the term "Hybrid war " is now being used by TV channels. So the society as such is going through the process of understanding what is actually Hybrid warfare, what is 5th GW and importantly, How are information/propaganda/intelligence/sabotage/economic wars combined under one Umbrella. When you take this forum (PDF) into consideration, yes majority are aware what 5GW is, but if you take Pakistan's nation into consideration, most of the population is not aware.

    Both situations [awareness and non-awareness] are dangerous, since non-awareness means you are a victim but don't know whats happening to you and if you are aware then like i said about tool converting into a weapon, every individual has internet access, he can use it as he wants, for any activity, which may or may not benefit the country. The term "hyper-sensitivity" that you mentioned can be broadened. Just like people are afraid of what they don't know similarly, People become sensitive and react immaturely when they are insecure, which is itself a form of fear. What can insecure people ? Excess of information (Propaganda included). Example is seen in Pakistan itself;
    1. Pakistan has energy crisis.2. Pakistan has water crisis.3. Pakistan's economy is running dry.4. Imran Khan's PTI is failing to deliver. 5. Government cannot take actions against ex ruling political parties. 6. Pakistan's law system is flawed, judges are corrupt. 7. Military and ISI are above the law. 8. Top Brass of Military is not capable .9. Suuni-shia, wahabi-barelvi conflicts. 10. Administrative issues, sky high inflation, uncontrollable poverty, political uncertainty and chaotic confusion in Government Departments.

    so what is damaging Pakistan the most ? LOC skirmishes with India, or the the international loans which cannot seem to be paid off? Should Pakistan test a new long-range missile, or efforts directed towards recovering all of looted wealth that sits in foreign accounts of a handful of people? Have corrupt governments caused more damage to Pakistan, or did the Kargil Operation? Could any military adventure or war, thrust upon us by the enemies, have caused as much harm to our nation as has been done by a handful of ‘leaders’, whose policies resulted in lack of water resources, depreciating currency, mammoth loans, bankrupt State enterprises, population explosion and a malnourished generation? and then the narrative that that these leaders were concertedly working on the instructions of the enemy; just that they were so focused on personal enrichment, that they turned a blind eye to the larger (regional) agenda at play.

    Any new news, any happening, any new incident, just adds up in any one of the categories mentioned above and is highlighted for days and days, ensuring that newly surfaced, media reported problem sinks into mind of every Pakistani, on top of the thousand other unsolved news and issues already brewing up in his head so he becomes certain that Pakistan is about to collapse and there is no hope.

    and if i have correctly understood, the target is Pakistani youth, population ? society ?

    Pakistan is 5th largest “young country” in the world with 63% of its 200 million population is youth falling between 18 to 33 years of age. This much majority of population may have potential to create stress over society and state, if mismanaged. Situation may take a serious turn if look into unemployment rate of 2017-18 hitting 7.68 to the age group of 18-29, according to reports it may touch 8.6 by the end of 2020 if not tackled wisely. As per authorities, this age group is more vulnerable towards falling pray of tools of hybrid campaign. (nation.pk)

    How to combat the situation ?

    National integrity isn’t only about national spirit or patriotism but it’s a feeling that brings people to come closer from all areas, dialects and beliefs for common endeavor, where, individuals tend to work together for broader perspective to enhance prosperity of nation and its people. Scholars also called it cementing force to bind people peacefully. it’s a complex process that unites, culturally and socially, discrete groups into territorial unit.
     
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  4. JamD

    JamD FULL MEMBER

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    On hypersensitivity: I believe even ISPR is cognizant of this effect. This is evident from the many times DG ISPR has taken the soft approach with PTM (for which a lot of PDFers have called him too soft). I think there is a realization that a scorched earth policy with respect to 5GW will turn your society into what India's has become.

    It seems like it is easy to identify the problem but solutions are hard to come up with (at least in my head). The solution can't be only to fight the propaganda war on every issue/event. Yes that's the tactical move that you simply must make but what is the overarching strategy?

    Even before that question we must ask WHO should be in the driving seat of this strategy. Right now it seems like it's ISPR basically "winging it". It's dumb to expect ISPR to manage our entire response effectively. It is only one institution after all. There has to be a institutional and across the board recognition of the problem and everyone has to be on the proverbial same page.
     
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  5. Signalian

    Signalian PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    You have narrowed 5GW to PTM issue only, there were a plethora of issues i mentioned in my reply. I just didnt mention PTM, not intentionally, but because its part of what Pakistan faces today, it doesn't form the entire spectrum.

    Now when you mention ISPR and its head, the DG ISPR; they are a kind of a representative body of Military. ISPR has its department for all types of roles, but it usually gets direction from the Chiefs of the three Arms. I think your concern is now that Govt/Military is not properly handling PTM, where as PTM falls under the category of 5GW against the state of Pakistan.

    Discussing Pakistani Military and its general way of conducting operations is becoming an intriguing topic. I have discussed it many times before, and now i am fearful of discussing it. The reason is not that i don't have enough substance to talk about it, the reason is that i fear that i don't and i shouldn't give information out on an open forum which damage Pakistan. If such information was to be divulged, then why doesn't DG ISPR mention it himself openly of how things are happening in military and intelligence departments to tackle PTM. Political think tanks, analysts, Geo political strategists, Defence experts; all have idea, perceptions. They view trends of a story build up, they follow news, they try to connect dots, and gather patches of insider-news from here and there to make an understanding of the complete picture. Obviously no Military will tell out in the open, which steps are being taken under what conditions against a certain entity, what intelligence assets, which equipment, which planning Departments, which formations etc are being utilized for this purpose.

    When u mention members on PDF, they are not the only ones who are concerned, i have mentioned a few bodies above and then there are journalists, who have contacts with in Military and are trying to sniff out for any news and present it in the way they seem necessary. If you, as an individual, or as a team (maybe you are a part of a team) have a plan, want to present it to ISPR, or want to present it to any other department (civil or military), then by all means go ahead. No one should stop you from doing that. Since you mentioned that solutions are hard to come by currently regarding this PTM issue, you can form a team on PDF, make a new topic, invite members, form a discussion, get help from Moderation team to enforce restriction of posting from unwanted members. Tag the members with whom you want to discuss, make a pro and a con team, so you get both sides of the picture, formulate a plan from those ideas. If you want to do it on a blog, or on Facebook, then that's entirely up to you. If you want to do it confidentially and think that some members on PDF might be able to assist you in forming a team, get email addresses and work outside PDF, on discord or Google sheet etc.

    All i am saying is that, if you want to really bring up ideas through brainstorming and present them, then do it in an effective manner.
     
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  6. JamD

    JamD FULL MEMBER

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    I mentioned PTM as just an example. Yes I do understand your hesitance on sharing information or plans. I am not asking for that.

    It's just hard for me to fathom a response other than fight each battle/issue as it shows up, which kind of seems like a losing strategy. My fear/concern is that the military can't (and shouldn't be asked to) battle 5GW on their own and it seems like they're the only ones combating it. Or that's how it seems. Perhaps the national security council needs to play an active role here and take the lead. An augmented NSC with representation from the judiciary and media as well maybe. Not sure, just thinking out loud. Do you agree that there needs to be more ownership of this effort from institutions besides the military?
     
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  7. Signalian

    Signalian PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Yes, and which institutions/departments do you recommend?
     
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  8. JamD

    JamD FULL MEMBER

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    Good (and hard) question. The NSC was my first impulse. It's got almost all the important people in one place but there are some institutions missing. For example it needs a representative of whatever all the media regulatory authorities were supposed to be combined into (not sure if that plan is still on). Also DG ISPR and someone from NACTA. Am I missing someone else important?
     
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  9. Fawadqasim1

    Fawadqasim1 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Absolutely

    That's exactly what they are trying to do but as jamd has suggested in his post we should not over react. It will be as counterproductive as doing nothing if not more

    has anyone read agatha christie's "And then there were none" it is one of the best example of psychological warfare in popular fiction the solution to their problem is the solution to ours they in the novel overreacted and failed consequently lost their lives we can't afford to fail
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  10. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

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    Maybe 45 years ago
     
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  11. Fawadqasim1

    Fawadqasim1 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Ha ha did you like it sir
     
  12. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

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    I can't even remember---I read all her books at that time---.
     
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  13. Mangus Ortus Novem

    Mangus Ortus Novem SENIOR MEMBER

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    @Shane @Verve @PakSword @graphican @ps3linux @HRK @Signalian @The Eagle @Dubious @MastanKhan @RIWWIR @Pakhtoon yum @Horus @StormBreaker @waz @Oscar @WebMaster @messiach @Sine Nomine @Counter-Errorist @Khafee @fitpOsitive @Slav Defence @Reddington


    The Greatest Game is in town and Pakistan is The Heartland....


    This thesis I have highlighted many a times... hopefully, it would be becoming clearer now... Even good Asad Umar in his presser yesterday mentioned it in an understated manner.

    CPEC is NOT just a road or some powerplants or some SEZs... Nah,... CPEC is one critical component of Global Power Architecture ... with Phase 3 this will become clear to everyone...with eyesight. We are just entering Phase 2.

    The US staying so long in the bad lands of Kabuliz aka Afghanistan was not for the love of Kabuliz but for this very Global Power Architecture ... Talibans provided more headache than percieved ... so now it has become a daldal of gule.

    We all remember those infamouse maps of BloodBorders ... and that interview of an American on RT about breaking up of Pakistan on Ethnofacist lines... all bit the dust... Pakistan is here to stay... Fencing the border is going as planned... quite a monumental task... kinda building a smaller version of The Chinese Wall... let us call it The Pakistani Wall.

    The Hybridwar
    started with quite some vigour and Pakistan suffered, suffered and suffered...

    DoMore. DoMore. DoMore
    ... as psychological warfare tool... trying to break the back of PakState with willing accomplices like ever smiling Zardari and nihari eating, now dying, Nawaz...

    Visit the DarkDecade and the policies of the two... from 18th Amendment to not having a Foreign Minister to IsaqDollar doing his EconomicTerrorism to creating astronomical NationalDebt to keeping the Dollar-PKR parity through atrificial means... to destroying SteelMills / PIA... on and on... the Darkness of the last decade went...

    In the same period... the breathing space to both GanguDaesh and Kabuli Gov.... building a narrative against the victim of terrorism Pakistan as terror sponsor... with 80k Dead and $220+Bln loss to economy and NO ONE defending Pakistan...
    DawnLeaks1 to help the buddies and the DawnLeaks2 just to give some extra help in ICJ in Den Haag. Those were the golden days of Hybridwar!

    Everyone wishes to take credit of CPEC in Pakistan... whereas it started in Mao and Ayyud Khan time as KKH project.

    We, Paks, as people and as State, don't like to think .. let alone plan 50 years ahead.

    Who deserve the credit for this long term thinking?

    Anyhow, as always, it is between the Pentagon and the American people...once again... the American people want out of the hellhole of Afghanistan and the Pentagon wishes to stay there for a few decades...

    Think South Korea, think Japan...and then link it to Afghanistan... picture must be clearer now.

    Add to it Hybridwar on China through both TradeWar and HongKongProtests and added juice of love for muslims in China... while the same lovers of Muslims don't utter a word when someone burns the Holy Quran in Norway.... Love is truly blind!

    Now the elegant Mrs. Wells is having sleepless nights because of the pain she feels for the people of Pakistan and their future... is highly touching.

    Wasn't Mrs. Wells, directly or indirectly, part of those people who were egging on the Ever Ready Zardari Regime to sell off PakNukes for $100Bln under the Friends of Pakistan chadar?
    Oh, the PeePee walaz... wanted those $... the same SMQ and same Zinda hae Bhutto lot .... and now Billo is doing dallas for whom?

    Tough talk of the yester years and concern of today.. is the thrust of the same policy... it would be foolish to conclude it as victory of some sort... we Paks are rather quick at such things.. given Thinking is not our forte... yet!

    What does it tell you... take a pause and SEE
    .... one day elegant Mrs. Wells shows her deep concern and love for Pakistan and the next day the Chinese Ambassador in Isl gives an uncharachteristic, sharp reply... and then understated presser from Asad Umar (10/10 for AU for the presser!!!)

    EconomicTerrorism not only hollows out a State it also takes away options to deploy Policy Instruements as well... not to mention Sovereignty of sorts... not that we, Paks, have been fully or even partially Sovereign ... sans 1948, 1965, 1971, 1984, 1998 (without Noora consent) ...and on 27th Feb 2019..

    Underestimating the US will be mortal mistake.

    With its deep ingress, roots within the PakSystem.. from Political Parties to coconut Babuz to MarasiMedia to Foreign Office to FIA to judiciary to, of course, FazoolMullahMaffia... The Octupus Hold!

    So, here we stand.... GanguFacistRegime on one side wishing/designing that we vanish from the face of the Earth as PakState to BloodBorders Architects on the other.. working hand in glove... one has regional goals and the other global agenda... call it perfect match of Strategic Interests ...

    However, 27th Feb was Paradigm breaking event... all that jazz about superpower went thoos... and what came out of that decade long media imagine building excercise was a naked, vintage war machine... so everyone went back to drawing board and we, Paks, went to sleep...

    PakKashmiris totally forgotten... how long has there been curfew?
    Anything on MarasiMedia?
    Anything from MarasiUnitedFront aka ALL political parties?
    Anything from PMIK?

    First the FuzlaGangsters took all the attention on MarasiMedia... or it was given... then right on cue... Noora popped in Services Hospital with ONLY 6000 Platelets to make Medical History... clean shaven, sitting on the front seat of SUV and not an ambulance... and then walking directly into the resthouse...without any aid.. Miracles do happen.

    Ever wondered that it was not just our esteemd Establishment...but other Forces which got Noora out?

    From Londonistan the plastic superme leader will go to Boston and stay there with NanniTweetni in toe... Miracles of Justice to be seen in a week or two... Lahore HC shall not disappoint its trusted customers. Satisfaction guaranteed 100%!!!

    • Freedom is NEVER given.
    • Sovereignty is NEVER awarded...
    • Both require Vision, Thinking and Sacrifice.

    PMIK might be a Pakistani Leader but his cabinet might have other masters than him or State of Pakistan...

    Asad Umar acted PakNationalist and tried to protect economic/financial Sovereignty of Pakistan... his BBC interview and then his keeping Chin up in D.C... Weaponised Finance didn't like that one bit...and drops in the Undertaker... Asad goes looking at butterflies...and then the new Governor of SBP... who made these choices?

    It is not over. It is just starting.

    A State like Pakistan, if allowed to develop and become even semi Sovereign... would change the Economic, Strategic and Security dynamics of not only Eurasia, ME but also of EastAfrica ...

    There have been Two Strategic Reliefs in our 72 years of 'new' history... both benefitted the US/West and China... we as cannon fodder paid the price and are still paying it dearly...

    The Thrid Strategic Relief will change the Global Power Architecture and lay the foundations of the return of Power to East after 500+ years. If it succeeds, that is.

    SCO is NOTHING without Pakistan... and Gawadar is not just a port.

    The political 'unrest' or bazarism in MarasiParliment... MarasiMedia spreading daily rumours and fasad or Noora/Zardari going abroad or FazoolMullahMaffia acting way beyond its size and of course, Afghanistan and IoJK are all interlinked...

    The Hybridwar on Pakistan continues and we haven't developed a comprehensive counter yet... CPEC Command is going to dovetail CPEC Authority ... should be announced sooner than later.

    And of course, Kashmir Issue will be solved when China wants it to be solved. We must learn to SEE and Think!

    Sweet, elegant Mrs. Wells has actually announced the Next Phase... and we need to decipher NOT the words but Thinking...

    We can also offer a American Pakistan Economic Corridor with dedicated SEZs for American companies... but without DoMore. DoMore in the mix.

    Can Pakistan act as Friends Not Masters?

    Does the PakState and political leadership have the basic understanding of Statecraft and Jinnah Doctorine?


    The Greatest Game is in town and Pakistan is The Heartland!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
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  14. StormBreaker

    StormBreaker FULL MEMBER

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    Thanks, Hence, dots connected, USA wants to leave Afg to avoid expenditures but don’t want to leave it due to CPEC.
    Pity for them...
     
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  15. fitpOsitive

    fitpOsitive SENIOR MEMBER

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    Exactly, no body can do nothing against Pakistan, if we are powerful enough from within. From a population of 220 million, take every one on board. Our population is our strength.
    Similarly, lets not take any shot on our chest. If USA wants to fight China, bismillah, but we will not let USA use Pakistans soil against China. Similarly, if USA wants to establish another CPEC like project, bismillah again, but without touching Chinese projects. So basically, Unity, Faith, discipline.
     
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