• Friday, August 23, 2019

The Hybrid War On Hybrid War In Pakisan

Discussion in 'Strategic & Foreign Affairs' started by Mangus Ortus Novem, May 5, 2019.

  1. Hakikat ve Hikmet

    Hakikat ve Hikmet SENIOR MEMBER

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    Some perspectives from the Turkish understanding/POV etc.:

    • It’s a thousand years old issue since Alparslan ventured into Anatolia. Fighting’s going on ever since. It varies in phases and degrees but not in kind. From a net resultant point of view, the Turkish folks have been the winners
    • Turkish media has been tamed after around 150 years!!! The big businesses have curtailed their proxy games. Judiciary is straightened up to a great extent
    • Coups by the Imperialists are going in in different forms. The most recent one in the election front with fake votes has been quashed to an extent. Economic one is on-going
    • Threatening with sanctions from the West to stop domestic defense production is falling on deaf ears
    • Proxy terrorists PKK etc. - funded by some brainless ME creatures - are being pounded and destroyed on an hourly basis using indegenous solutions
    • In the domestic front “zero tolerance” approach is being pursued. An empty house is better than a bad tenant
    Bottom-line: Sabr and Shukr under the relentless Mujadele against these Satanic forces

    La Galibe Illallah....
     
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  2. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

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  3. Signalian

    Signalian SENIOR MEMBER

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    I will try my best to answer you and I apologize in advance if i have not understood you correctly. Lets advance alongside your two points:

    1. Morale, confusion, division - caused by frustration of enemy.

    The Russia-USA example of elections is there. The Turkish-Erdogan coup example is there. Wars instigated through internet, since information spreads faster through internet than word of mouth, faster than print media, faster than News Channel on TV even. Internet is a tool, tools can be carved into weapons; offensive and defensive both.
    A recent example is also Feb 2019, tension created in Pulwama resulting in a dog fight. If the IAF strike inside AJK is also counted, then the war actually lasted for around 45-60 minutes, including the dog fight where IAF lost planes.
    lets try to understand what is war?
    A. Pulwama incident - till 25 feb 2019
    B. The IAF strike, PAF response and the dog fight over Kashmir.
    C. 27 feb 2019 - till now

    Category B is definitely war, then what are category A and C ?

    Category A is the Propaganda war through media (Internet, News channels, Lobbying, Printed newspapers); which ensures that some sort of incident of war takes place. It has effects of morale boosting, blaming enemy (Pakistan), creating hype in own nation etc under its sphere.

    Category C is the Information war through media(Cyber warfare, Internet, News channels, Lobbying, Printed newspapers); which ensures that enemy's (Pakistan) narrative is wrong, spread misinformation, create doubts, make the enemy (Pakistan) youth question its leaders decisions etc. Now here the frustration comes in-> Failure in this category was turning the nation (Pakistan's population) against its Armed Forces, because PAF brought down IAF aircraft's. This is necessary to be done in case of Pakistan; its a must to create divide between Military and the population to make Pakistan weak.


    2.
    Pakistan's society is learning and getting accustomed to 5GW. There are news articles about 5th GW and the term "Hybrid war " is now being used by TV channels. So the society as such is going through the process of understanding what is actually Hybrid warfare, what is 5th GW and importantly, How are information/propaganda/intelligence/sabotage/economic wars combined under one Umbrella. When you take this forum (PDF) into consideration, yes majority are aware what 5GW is, but if you take Pakistan's nation into consideration, most of the population is not aware.

    Both situations [awareness and non-awareness] are dangerous, since non-awareness means you are a victim but don't know whats happening to you and if you are aware then like i said about tool converting into a weapon, every individual has internet access, he can use it as he wants, for any activity, which may or may not benefit the country. The term "hyper-sensitivity" that you mentioned can be broadened. Just like people are afraid of what they don't know similarly, People become sensitive and react immaturely when they are insecure, which is itself a form of fear. What can insecure people ? Excess of information (Propaganda included). Example is seen in Pakistan itself;
    1. Pakistan has energy crisis.2. Pakistan has water crisis.3. Pakistan's economy is running dry.4. Imran Khan's PTI is failing to deliver. 5. Government cannot take actions against ex ruling political parties. 6. Pakistan's law system is flawed, judges are corrupt. 7. Military and ISI are above the law. 8. Top Brass of Military is not capable .9. Suuni-shia, wahabi-barelvi conflicts. 10. Administrative issues, sky high inflation, uncontrollable poverty, political uncertainty and chaotic confusion in Government Departments.

    so what is damaging Pakistan the most ? LOC skirmishes with India, or the the international loans which cannot seem to be paid off? Should Pakistan test a new long-range missile, or efforts directed towards recovering all of looted wealth that sits in foreign accounts of a handful of people? Have corrupt governments caused more damage to Pakistan, or did the Kargil Operation? Could any military adventure or war, thrust upon us by the enemies, have caused as much harm to our nation as has been done by a handful of ‘leaders’, whose policies resulted in lack of water resources, depreciating currency, mammoth loans, bankrupt State enterprises, population explosion and a malnourished generation? and then the narrative that that these leaders were concertedly working on the instructions of the enemy; just that they were so focused on personal enrichment, that they turned a blind eye to the larger (regional) agenda at play.

    Any new news, any happening, any new incident, just adds up in any one of the categories mentioned above and is highlighted for days and days, ensuring that newly surfaced, media reported problem sinks into mind of every Pakistani, on top of the thousand other unsolved news and issues already brewing up in his head so he becomes certain that Pakistan is about to collapse and there is no hope.

    and if i have correctly understood, the target is Pakistani youth, population ? society ?

    Pakistan is 5th largest “young country” in the world with 63% of its 200 million population is youth falling between 18 to 33 years of age. This much majority of population may have potential to create stress over society and state, if mismanaged. Situation may take a serious turn if look into unemployment rate of 2017-18 hitting 7.68 to the age group of 18-29, according to reports it may touch 8.6 by the end of 2020 if not tackled wisely. As per authorities, this age group is more vulnerable towards falling pray of tools of hybrid campaign. (nation.pk)

    How to combat the situation ?

    National integrity isn’t only about national spirit or patriotism but it’s a feeling that brings people to come closer from all areas, dialects and beliefs for common endeavor, where, individuals tend to work together for broader perspective to enhance prosperity of nation and its people. Scholars also called it cementing force to bind people peacefully. it’s a complex process that unites, culturally and socially, discrete groups into territorial unit.
     
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  4. JamD

    JamD FULL MEMBER

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    On hypersensitivity: I believe even ISPR is cognizant of this effect. This is evident from the many times DG ISPR has taken the soft approach with PTM (for which a lot of PDFers have called him too soft). I think there is a realization that a scorched earth policy with respect to 5GW will turn your society into what India's has become.

    It seems like it is easy to identify the problem but solutions are hard to come up with (at least in my head). The solution can't be only to fight the propaganda war on every issue/event. Yes that's the tactical move that you simply must make but what is the overarching strategy?

    Even before that question we must ask WHO should be in the driving seat of this strategy. Right now it seems like it's ISPR basically "winging it". It's dumb to expect ISPR to manage our entire response effectively. It is only one institution after all. There has to be a institutional and across the board recognition of the problem and everyone has to be on the proverbial same page.
     
  5. Signalian

    Signalian SENIOR MEMBER

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    You have narrowed 5GW to PTM issue only, there were a plethora of issues i mentioned in my reply. I just didnt mention PTM, not intentionally, but because its part of what Pakistan faces today, it doesn't form the entire spectrum.

    Now when you mention ISPR and its head, the DG ISPR; they are a kind of a representative body of Military. ISPR has its department for all types of roles, but it usually gets direction from the Chiefs of the three Arms. I think your concern is now that Govt/Military is not properly handling PTM, where as PTM falls under the category of 5GW against the state of Pakistan.

    Discussing Pakistani Military and its general way of conducting operations is becoming an intriguing topic. I have discussed it many times before, and now i am fearful of discussing it. The reason is not that i don't have enough substance to talk about it, the reason is that i fear that i don't and i shouldn't give information out on an open forum which damage Pakistan. If such information was to be divulged, then why doesn't DG ISPR mention it himself openly of how things are happening in military and intelligence departments to tackle PTM. Political think tanks, analysts, Geo political strategists, Defence experts; all have idea, perceptions. They view trends of a story build up, they follow news, they try to connect dots, and gather patches of insider-news from here and there to make an understanding of the complete picture. Obviously no Military will tell out in the open, which steps are being taken under what conditions against a certain entity, what intelligence assets, which equipment, which planning Departments, which formations etc are being utilized for this purpose.

    When u mention members on PDF, they are not the only ones who are concerned, i have mentioned a few bodies above and then there are journalists, who have contacts with in Military and are trying to sniff out for any news and present it in the way they seem necessary. If you, as an individual, or as a team (maybe you are a part of a team) have a plan, want to present it to ISPR, or want to present it to any other department (civil or military), then by all means go ahead. No one should stop you from doing that. Since you mentioned that solutions are hard to come by currently regarding this PTM issue, you can form a team on PDF, make a new topic, invite members, form a discussion, get help from Moderation team to enforce restriction of posting from unwanted members. Tag the members with whom you want to discuss, make a pro and a con team, so you get both sides of the picture, formulate a plan from those ideas. If you want to do it on a blog, or on Facebook, then that's entirely up to you. If you want to do it confidentially and think that some members on PDF might be able to assist you in forming a team, get email addresses and work outside PDF, on discord or Google sheet etc.

    All i am saying is that, if you want to really bring up ideas through brainstorming and present them, then do it in an effective manner.
     
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  6. JamD

    JamD FULL MEMBER

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    I mentioned PTM as just an example. Yes I do understand your hesitance on sharing information or plans. I am not asking for that.

    It's just hard for me to fathom a response other than fight each battle/issue as it shows up, which kind of seems like a losing strategy. My fear/concern is that the military can't (and shouldn't be asked to) battle 5GW on their own and it seems like they're the only ones combating it. Or that's how it seems. Perhaps the national security council needs to play an active role here and take the lead. An augmented NSC with representation from the judiciary and media as well maybe. Not sure, just thinking out loud. Do you agree that there needs to be more ownership of this effort from institutions besides the military?
     
  7. Signalian

    Signalian SENIOR MEMBER

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    Yes, and which institutions/departments do you recommend?
     
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  8. JamD

    JamD FULL MEMBER

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    Good (and hard) question. The NSC was my first impulse. It's got almost all the important people in one place but there are some institutions missing. For example it needs a representative of whatever all the media regulatory authorities were supposed to be combined into (not sure if that plan is still on). Also DG ISPR and someone from NACTA. Am I missing someone else important?
     
  9. Fawadqasim1

    Fawadqasim1 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Absolutely

    That's exactly what they are trying to do but as jamd has suggested in his post we should not over react. It will be as counterproductive as doing nothing if not more

    has anyone read agatha christie's "And then there were none" it is one of the best example of psychological warfare in popular fiction the solution to their problem is the solution to ours they in the novel overreacted and failed consequently lost their lives we can't afford to fail
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  10. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

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    Maybe 45 years ago
     
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  11. Fawadqasim1

    Fawadqasim1 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Ha ha did you like it sir
     
  12. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

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    I can't even remember---I read all her books at that time---.
     
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