• Saturday, August 24, 2019

The Hybrid War On Hybrid War In Pakisan

Discussion in 'Strategic & Foreign Affairs' started by Mangus Ortus Novem, May 5, 2019.

  1. Mangus Ortus Novem

    Mangus Ortus Novem SENIOR MEMBER

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    My dear Pak,

    Brilliant!

    Many thanks for your concise and educational piece. The entire point of this thread is to help us form a comprehensive understanding of what confronts us i.e. Problem Definition... before equally comprehensive solutions can be deployed.

    Just to create a backdrop / context...

    As you, no dobut, have read Total War... Hybridwar is an evolution of that same concept. Now only more means and speed has become available for the adversary.

    With finance becoming weaponised and so-called human rights equally weaponsied tools of creating pressure points to hollowout a state from within and without has become quite easy.

    The difference between first Gulf War and second shows the evolution of concepts, as you clearly pointed, being tested in the fields.

    Open socieities such as Pak are more prone to such impositions of hybridwar attacks than those, say China/Russia, who have managed to create all kinds of firewalls to protect themselves from such hollowing out from within. Russia learnt the hard way as 1990s demonstrate.

    In a way a smilar template is being employed on Pakistan as well... only more refined... of course, colour revolutions and arab springs provided valuable experience and validations of concepts to the actors.

    Coming back to Pakistan, if we look closely, post NRO a certain acceleration in hollowing out of state instituitions... astronomical rise in national debt... total absence of basic, quality services and a media narrative against the security instituitions of Pak State.

    Starting from TTP to evolution of PTM...constant keeping alive of BLA via Afghanistan... with the help of the usual suspects... we see a multipronged attack in the form of #MarasiMedia daily subliminal programming of Paks against the security establishment, NRO+ politicians openly undermining the forces, practically using them as punching bags and then creating an environment of unstability as blackmailing tool to push the process of accountability back....

    Hierin media-cells and #trendmakers from Pak and outside of Pak pretending to be Paks have created a very challenging environment for Pak State to fight back.

    A recent example of $ rate hike and KSE maninpulation is cae in point of economic element of blackmailing of state or perhaps more openly failure of the current government to act more resolutely.
    However, the process of destruction of state instuitions and total Instituitional Capture as pointed about by SCP has limited the ability of the State to act. So the paralysis of curent government is understandable to some extent... not overlooking its own failures in execution of policies...


    If we take the micro-cosmos of PDF as an example... we can clearly see the effects of this 'programming' by the #MarasiMedia and politicos that many Paks here tend to blame everything on security establishment... it is so an easy excuse that fits all bills....

    This is one of the effects of this Hybridwar... confusion, inability to form clear picture and a readymade target to blame.

    Quetta terror attack of yesterday and Pak posters reaction on it a clear example of this effect/programming.... without applying any rational thinking... they automatically blame... the failure of security forces... This is sad.

    No dobut security establishment has made many mistakes. Of course, they have.... up untill Tricky Mush period. The entire nation was with him to do accountability but he chose to sip whisky and play bridge instead... the result of that is the plunder of next ten years after him.... Dictators are stupid!


    Anyhow, it is not all gloom and doom... it is a very complex and sophisticated battle as you clinincally elaborated. There is a fight back also... by making the attack public the security establishment has announced a fightback.

    What is missing is regulation of socialmedia and #MarasiMedia.... unless #LifafaJurnos are held accountable we will remain schakled to the pole... #CriminalEnterprise has created a counter state... a true state-within-state...

    Unless Paks, ordinary Paks, become aware of this Hybridwar, we shall keep seeing PTM doing jalssaz in ISL.

    Once again... Thankyou for a very informative piece!

    @RIWWIR @newb3e @Areesh @zulu @Peaceful Civilian @American Pakistani @VCheng @Verve @ali_raza @Ali_Baba @war&peace @MastanKhan @Reddington @ps3linux @Shane @CHACHA"G" @TheTallGuy
     
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  2. VCheng

    VCheng ELITE MEMBER

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    The regulations are there already for that purpose. Applying them effectively is the problem. A more effective strategy is to present a better alternative narrative.
     
  3. ps3linux

    ps3linux FULL MEMBER

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    I have highlighted some key areas, I did start a thread related to this and what I remember @Dubious merged it with his idea 3. We have no capability when it comes to cyber-warfare.
     
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  4. MUSTAKSHAF

    MUSTAKSHAF SENIOR MEMBER

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    All Politicans are dirty & bad they should be killed and it should be started from founders of state.
     
  5. CHACHA"G"

    CHACHA"G" SENIOR MEMBER

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    Please put some more light on this .,, Why do you think we should do that ? What benefits we can get from this?? And Why you going back to Founder of state ??
     
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  6. MUSTAKSHAF

    MUSTAKSHAF SENIOR MEMBER

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    Because every ill is related to them while every other department is angel.

    Rule of thumb says every Politican is bad,founders were also Politicans when our babus where in Imperial Service.
     
  7. Dubious

    Dubious MODERATOR

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    @Arsalan @araz @HRK @fatman17 @araz @WAJsal

    The whole thread or just this post?
     
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  8. 313ghazi

    313ghazi SENIOR MEMBER

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    Because we dared take it and have the resolve and the means to keep it. No justification is required.
     
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  9. MastanKhan

    MastanKhan PDF VETERAN

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    Hi,

    Going back to all is an excuse of incompetence---it is a feel good statement---.

    You only need to go back to the current generation of politicians---.

    If you cannot control the current generation---then that is a problem.

    Going back is also a part of the 5th gen warfare---. It keeps the nation confused---they start to run around in circles not knowing what to do---from where to start---.


    It is very simple---CONTROL THE CONTROLABLE & every thing else will fall in place---.

    But if you cannot control what is in front of you---then the problem is basically you---. You are the SABOTEUR---.
     
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  10. MUSTAKSHAF

    MUSTAKSHAF SENIOR MEMBER

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    There is no light at the end of the tunnel.
     
  11. Dubious

    Dubious MODERATOR

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    Keep this thread troll free! Any trolling will result in a ban without question! If you cant discuss modern innovative techniques dont come to the thread!
     
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  12. ps3linux

    ps3linux FULL MEMBER

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    @Mangus Ortus Novem , I am used to doing extensive reading and research, in addition to my usual interests I have been reading about hybrid war lately and I have some thoughts not concise but conclusions nonetheless:

    In order to understand any situation one needs to understand and study examples in history, hybrid war has evolved from "divide and rule" philosophy only difference is that now its multidimensional. Sooner we will realize we Pakistanis are what they call as "lone wolf" we do not fit with any one, my ancestors despite originally blue blood indians after accepting Islam became outcasts same is the case with those whose roots are from this land so nothing for us in the east. For those who are from turkish, afghan, syrian, arab, cas, israeli origin they are no more accepted by their very distant people rather treated as pakistanis, those who claim to be from iranian and saudi origin they are no more accepted as iranian or arabic people, balochs are a different case but despite propaganda balochs are die hard patriots, if they have reservations they express them it doesn't make them traitors.

    A part of balochistan is in iran, ask any of those balochs can they dare speak brahivi or pashto in any gathering?

    Arabs look down on us as Ajami Means "dumb" people, iranian call us "hindi", afghans too calls us derogatory names "zaa marna da punjabi day, daal khor day, xxxxxxx" so soon we will have to realize we are because of this country. Our area produced two of the greatest people in many centuries one a great visionary who was able to look into future centuries we are lucky we call him our national poet, the other one of the greatest leader muslim world produced in centuries a man of principles, the founder of our nation. Quaid did say two things "nothing can undo pakistan" and "it will take them 100 years to become a nation" we are almost there.

    See they tried to divide us along language, race through their pawns like achakzai, ghaffar/wali khan, g m syed, altaf, nawaz, and few balochs but they failed.

    Then they tried to divide us along religo ethnic basis fully funded by saudis, iranian, indian, afghani bast*rds, etc but APS united us like anything and we are the only country in the world only army in the world which has succeeded in fighting such a serious insurgency, india despite its size is failing in naga land and chattisgarh.

    During the same period came the free "f*cked" media all foreign funded bas*ards like i.a rehman, farzana bari, asma jahangir, pervez hood bhai, the traitor mirs of pakistan, and traitors like haroon group got a new zeal and audience, if you look at these channels with a critical eye they have been spreading nothing but negativity about pakistan for the last decade or so, the only three I give some leeway are ARY, BOL and HUM networks they have their problems but they are more pro pakistani than others.

    It is up to pakistanis to reject these stupid channels, social media has become bigger than these channels, each one of us should reject any negative news about pakistan on whatsapp, twitter, insta, facebook, etc etc, this will start killing the campaign.

    Few decades down the road historians will write the name of ISPR in true gold as one organization which stood strong and fought the hybrid war valiantly, please do understand I ain't no fauji boot licker, I have serious reservations with them but when it comes to choosing between them and enemies of my country it will always be them.

    Besides as long as Islamic ideology of "Shahadat" is alive in our hearts, our forces nothing in the world can defeat us. Even stupid bhindians copied it, I however, think well us muslims believe after shahadat we will go to Jannah, where will bhindians go, probably swinging with the trunk of hanuman.

    So my two cents disrespect, discredit every negative news about Pakistan/pakistanis by these channels, make them pay through social media, project positive things about pakistan pay taxes and contribute to the greatness of this great country in any way you can.

    Just look at the bengali dipsh*ts, or bhindians or for that matter chinese they are doing nothing here in this forum except propaganda about their countries, cant we do the same.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
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  13. Mangus Ortus Novem

    Mangus Ortus Novem SENIOR MEMBER

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    @ps3linux my very dear Pak, allow me to thank you for putting your thoughts and passion for Pakistan here. I agree with the thrust of your reasoning.

    Let us take stock where we stand today...in light of things unfolding so quickly... yet nothing of it is accidental. We might say with certainty that 'their' plans are rolling out like clockwork.

    Pointer here in time is Billo's return from his famous lunch..stop over in Londonistan... meeting with Noora sons and their mutual 'friends'.

    After Billo landed his attack was Pak State knowing full well that UNSC resolution was being discussed that very day....Billo started blaming the Pak State for terrorism... mirroring Indian narrative... China came through and put a technical hold once again.

    But Billo tried to blackmail the Pak State. Moving forward on FATF same song-and-dance from our rani... pressure point creation... double target... blackmail the State of Pakistan and signal the foreign masters that their new mohra is in place and doing their thing...

    PTM was in the background doing its thing... Billos was feeling the pain and agony of human rights of young pashtoons... if you go back and see how the attitude and narrative of PPP became aggressive and against the Pak State in unison... especially Billo's spokesman...

    Yet the same rani didn't bother to visit his ancestral hometown... drenched in HIV or Thar were our childeren... Pak childeren are still dying.

    We have all seen their 'powershow' when Billo/Zardari appeared before NAB the first time... the second one for Billo only a couple of days ago.

    Keep this in mind... a stage is being set here... #MarasiMedia and #LifafaJurnos are in full swing... this entire videoleak of NAB Chairman came on such an optimum time...that it created a context by magic for TV-TV politicians...

    Iftar Party and Tweetni's performance...after that an extremely aggressive NooraLeague... Showbaaz absent from the scene... Maryam is in fact threatening the Pak State along with her attack dogs..daily!

    The 'system' is in paralysis due to Buzdarism of IK gov and instituitional capture by Noora/Zaradri Leagues.. everywhere it is their men. Yes, in judiciary too..

    A couple of weeks ago I did mention that a judiciary crisis is coming... we should expect more from this.

    Now put in IMF strangelhold in this new package which not approved yet, FATF sowrd hanging over our heads.. debt servicing and redemption... inflation and some crafty play in KSE/ Dollar-PKR rate swings...

    All of as sudden we have ehsas e mahroomiat coming from our Mengal... and his love for JumWhoriat as witnessed today...NooraLeague suddenly becoming all huggy-huggy-kissy-kissy with the leftist agenda... this Khawja in NA sounds like a new person with a totally different past.

    Fast forward.. americans in the Gulf... parked with their big boats... AF / NDS publishing great AF maps showing all our areas with them...

    Attack on our troops and on our check posts... arrests of the two traitors... Pashteen invited by the PPP-PMLN in the Senate... he smiling... mediacells in AF India and other place in the world doing overtime... Hasttagging trends..

    Do you see the blackmail?

    With our economy fully hit by the #EconomicTerrorist who happen to be the same JumWhoriat politicos with their money and their men in media.... Buzdarism rife in the present government.... inflation and new budget lurking there...

    In the backdrop of all this Our Army announces something...

    The performance of our politicos in the NA and Senate today... and then the rounds on TeeVee... wait for Tweetni...

    Quetta suicide attack.... luckily our LEAs did great job... no loss... last week there was one in the mosque there.. loss... PC Gawadar... a string of terror attacks before that... after 27Feb a sharp rise...

    U Baloch to PTM we see the fingerprints of the same class of politicos ... same financieers/sponsors in politics and on #MarasiMedia .

    You see this is the scope of our war... and lest we forget there is a tradewar going on between China-US...

    CEPEC would make China two ocean power... with direct access to ME and Africa... Chinese base on the other side of Yemen... Houthis going coockooo... and then there is our quiet Oman...

    As you rightfully described in your above piece... We are Paks and this is Our Land ... we cann't be anything else... nobody is going to accept us other than Paks.. and why should they.

    We are Paks and this is Our Land . For all Paks!

    At this time, as you rightly pointed out, we stand behind Our Pak State and Our Armed Forces.

    This is a war we cann't afford to loose. This is war we win!

    They can play Sindhcard.

    They can play Pasthooncard.

    They can play Balochcard.

    Nooraz tried playing Punjabcard..


    But we have the trumpcard.... we play Pakistancard
     
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  14. Signalian

    Signalian SENIOR MEMBER

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    Hybrid war is advised...last sentence

     
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  15. JamD

    JamD FULL MEMBER

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    Thanks for the excellent summary!

    I would appreciate specifically your opinion on an aspect of 5GW that I think is often overlooked. Perhaps you have thought about it. The effect I want to discuss is the polarization of society as a result of 5GW.

    There are two ideas I have about this:
    1. This is a direct goal of 5GW.
    As you said the goal might be to erode the enemy's morale. I think an excellent example of this is the US-elections Russia episode. I think it is safe to say now that Russia was actively trying to polarize American society. There's even an example where Russian Facebook trolls organized protests of two groups in the US at the same time and place to promote a clash. A polarized/divided society is a weak society.

    2. This is a welcome (on part of the adversary) side-effect.
    Or perhaps when a society becomes aware of the dangers of 5GW it over-corrects and becomes hypersensitive. The adversary doesn't need to do much on this front. The fire sustains itself. It's like getting an infection, and your body gets a fever to fight it, but the fever goes out of control and ends up killing you. Examples of this are all around us. The rise of "almost fascist nationalism" all across the globe can be seen. US, India, Brazil etc. We are not immune from this either. Some people on this forum will call me a traitor for this (which will kind of prove my point) but you can see this trend this very forum as well. The short time it takes and the number of people screaming "traitor! hang them! firing squad!" on almost any slight disagreement of opinion has gone up exponentially in the recent past.

    It is most probably a mixture of both. What concerns me more is that there is little or no recognition of this effect. I fear this is the most serious threat from 5GW that hits at the core of a nation. When people are hypersensitive to 5GW they are suspicious of their own people, everyone who disagrees with them becomes a traitor, and very little room for debate remains. Genuine grievances (which are obviously used in 5GW) are bulldozed by the loud calls for blood. This of course exacerbates the polarization, weakening the society even more.

    But of course there is to be a balance on how much to control and how much freedom to give. Maybe it'll take the world a couple of decades to get used to this new reality and come up with the right balances for the current challenge. People will need to be made much smarter than they are (somehow). They will have to be sensitized to the dangers of both underappreciation and overappreciation of 5GW.

    I'm sorry if I didn't pose a clear question but I would appreciate your thoughts on this.
     
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