• Wednesday, January 23, 2019

The Great Indian Ocean Game

Discussion in 'Pakistan Navy' started by HAIDER, Dec 26, 2013.

  1. HAIDER

    HAIDER ELITE MEMBER

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    [​IMG]
    Till two decades ago, India ruled the waters of the Indian Ocean with its powerful Navy, becoming the first Asian nation to operate both an aircraft carrier and a nuclear-powered submarine. That was then. Now, the country is facing its worst challenge in the same turbulent waters.

    Slowly, steadily and stealthily, India is being encircled by its enemies—China and Pakistan in tacit understanding—in the maritime domain.

    The Indian Navy lies weakened by its fleet growing into obsolescence and its frontline warships and submarines falling prey to avoidable accidents like the explosions that destroyed top notch INS Sindhurakshak kilo class submarine on August 14.

    It is the same Navy that in 1971 trounced Pakistan in one-on-one maritime battles in the Indian Ocean region, striking Chittagong, Cox’s Bazaar on the East by the Sea Hawk combat planes on board INS Vikrant aircraft carrier and Karachi on the West with P-15 Termit anti-ship missiles.

    This undeterred naval action from the Indian Navy during the peak of the 1971 war came despite the US under Richard Nixon tilting in favour of Pakistan and sending its aircraft carrier from the 7th Fleet to the Bay of Bengal to intimidate India.

    But, since the HDW submarine procurement row, the Indian Navy prowess has been hit, badly at that, by the Indian political leadership’s indecision on augmenting the ageing fleet of warships and submarines.

    The result is the Navy is left with just 20 major surface combatants such as INS Vikramaditya and INS Viraat aircraft carriers, destroyers and frigates, while its submarine fleet is down to just 13 vessels.

    The much-touted plans to have 24 submarines as replacement for the ageing fleet of Indian Navy submarines by 2030 is already delayed by a decade and the required submarine fleet strength is not likely till 2040 at this rate.

    In such a scenario, comes the Indian Navy’s tussle with the Chinese for supremacy in the Indian Ocean region. The first taste of things to come was reported in 2008, the year Chinese warships ventured into the Indian Ocean region for the first time on the pretext of joining the anti-pirate crusade in the Gulf of Aden.

    Chinese media screamed in January 2009 that the two Chinese Destroyers sailing to Gulf of Aden in late 2008, two years ahead of schedule, were snooped upon by an Indian submarine, which was forced to surface by the Chinese warships with a threat to torpedo it.

    The Indians denied the incident, but the message was clear: The great Indian Ocean game had crossed the half-way mark.

    India has maintained that the Indian Ocean region is its responsibility. But Beijing is challenging that.

    But Indian Ocean region has always had too many powers, be it the Americans, the British or the French, operating here from their own or leased territories and bases, considering that 80 per cent of the world’s seaborne trade, primarily oil, pass through these sea lanes.

    “The rapid growth of both Indian and Chinese economies has led to increasing reliance on energy and raw materials transported by sea. This has focused sharp attention on the criticality, for both economies, of uninterrupted use of the sea-lanes for trade and energy transportation. Thus, while the PLA Navy makes forays into the Indian Ocean, the Indian Navy has newfound commitments in the South China Sea,” says former Indian Navy chief Admiral Arun Prakash on the dynamics at play.

    China has steadfastly cultivated nations and neighbours of India under its policy that is loosely described as String of Pearls and India has been slow in countering it with its own presence in South China Sea, the Gulf and Africa.

    The US in June 2013 reaffirmed the Obama Administration’s 2011 policy of rebalancing of its maritime forces to the Asia-Pacific region, highlighting how critical the Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean region are today.

    If there was to be a maritime showdown in the Indian Ocean anytime now, Indian Navy would have to face the combined strength of the Chinese and the Pakistani navies. And in such a scenario, Indian Navy may find itself in a crunch, due to inherent weaknesses in its fleet.


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    Some interesting comments from Tamils and Indians.

    Comments(11)

    Australia doesn't need to build more submarines. All we need do is invite the distinguished officials of Algeria, Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, India, Indonesia, Iran, Italy, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, Netherlands, North Korea, Norway, Pakistan, China, Taiwan, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Singapore, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Venezuela and Vietnam down to an outback barbecue. Ask them all to turn up with the billions of dollars that they would otherwise have spent purchasing new submarine fleets. Then everyone can just sit around eating a nice meal, having a ginger beer and enjoying festivities, while the treasurers from each country take turns tossing great wads of money onto the bonfire. This way we can all be friends, with no-one any longer having cause to feel threatened by the others' torpedoes.


    Posted by Eamonn Gosney at 12/01/2013 16:10 Reply to this Report abuse

    India betrayed the TAMILS... heavy price to be paid..

    Posted by kabilan manoharan at 12/02/2013 00:36 Reply to this Report abuse

    India , did not . But some of the Tamil groups play this dirty game along with the Chinese.

    Posted by johnsw at 12/02/2013 01:28 Reply to this Report abuse

    When LTTE attacked IPKF they signed their death warrants then and there. India made sure they all die painfully and slowly. If you don't stand with us, you stand against us. Simple. India First.

    Posted by Mazo at 12/02/2013 02:51 Reply to this Report abuse

    It was IPFK who attacked LTTE (a group that was trained by Indira's India) and killed innocent Tamils. To date, there is a memorial near Jaffna Hospital for the victims of IPFK's killings and rapes. After those massacres, you lost the sympathies of Tamils, and the main responsible Rajiv Gandhi got blown up in the same process. Even today Hindia is playing a dirty game with Tamils. They boycott CHOGM (to satisfy the parties in Tamil Nadu) but want to give military training to Sri Lankan soldiers. We are not fools and watching you carefully. It's really sad because we were never against India until the day IPFK started killing our people.

    Posted by a Sri Lankan Tamil at 12/02/2013 17:01 Reply to this Report abuse

    The national security of India , in the real sense, implies, the security of the people and not the vested interests of the ruling party. Starting from Srimao-Sastri pact, Kachatheevu pact, & later handling Srilankakan North-east Tamils' issue, the center failed to consult TN govt & political parties, violating the federal spirit of the constitution & encouraging separatist tendencies in TN - forgetting its potential advantage to the enemies of India. Unless this kind of suicidal short-coming on the part of central govt is reversed, no amount of investment to strengthen our defense forces will be of any use to safeguard India.

    Posted by Gandhi at 12/02/2013 09:58 Reply to this Report abuse

    Also none of the pro-LTTE TN groups dared to condemn China for supporting Rajapaksa in UN forums, while focusing on weakening India's tie with Srilanka. Ignoring China's annexation of Tibet & the sufferings of the Buddhists in Tibet, Srilanka had permitted the Chinese, to become a kind of future 'another Tibet' for China. Unless the true patriots in both the countries wake up, the govts will serve only the vested interests of the ruling party, sacrificing the interests of the people.

    Posted by Gandhi at 12/02/2013 10:13 Reply to this Report abuse

    India has a price to pay alright. Indians do not know the basics of nation building. Well the article has nothing to do with Sri Lankan Tamils . It is about Indian nay in the Indian ocean. In 1971 India had a strong naval force. India had only Pakistan to confront. China was not in the theater. Well the scenes and the theater are changed. China has become a dominent force and ofcourse has pushed India to the backyard. It is impossible for India to re-emerge as a force to reckon. Pakistan has increased her naval fleet as well, with China transforming Pakistan as a counter balance to India. While Pakistan becomes a conter balance to India, China will be a challenging force to the USA. It is altogether a new area in the Indian ocean. With Indian corruption, cancellation of orders, lack of expertise in mastering the technologies and above all without an arms industry, India will be a second hand power. India will wallow in her own follies for the next century.

    Posted by Robert at 12/03/2013 17:01 Reply to this Report abuse
     
  2. Friei Indien

    Friei Indien BANNED

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    man!, u should be in pakistan's intelligence service, they would love u for sure. LOL

    forget not, we have 4 stealth frigates, chinese and pakistanis wont even gonna know what hit them in case of a war.
     
  3. Dash

    Dash SENIOR MEMBER

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    What is the source?
     
  4. danger007

    danger007 ELITE MEMBER

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    Hahaha... Bs article... Stealthily encircled by china and pakistan... Does pakistan have comparable fleet wrt IN... Does chyna have enough fleet for Scs? And can they split its fleet to Scs n Indian ocean... Apart USN none can afford war with IN in INdian ocean..
     
  5. sree45

    sree45 FULL MEMBER

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    Don't forget East china sea. Japan is ramping up its military.
     
  6. Friei Indien

    Friei Indien BANNED

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    or ha pakistaniyo ek aur bat, pichli bar jab tum america indonesia china aur iran ke sath aye the hamse ladne tab to kuch ukhad nhi pae, to ab sirf china ke sath milkar kya ukhad loge? ha ha ha ....or china bechara to khud hamse pareshan hai
     
  7. Ra'ad

    Ra'ad FULL MEMBER

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    What in the world is a stealth frigate?? Stealthy ho gi...complete stealth mushkil hai.

    U say it as if wo paas aa ke bhaoo kare gi aur kisi ko pta bhi ni chalay ga :p
     
  8. Ra'ad

    Ra'ad FULL MEMBER

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    hahahahahaha tum koi biwi ho uski ke tum se pareshan hai?? :p
     
  9. SrNair

    SrNair ELITE MEMBER

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    "Slowly, steadily and stealthily, India is being encircled by its enemies—China and Pakistan in tacit understanding—in the maritime domain."
    Ha ha Pakistan :rofl::rofl::rofl:. and its Pakistan Navy:lol:.
    I agree about china .It is a real challenge.But we already take countermeasures.But still in Indian Ocean Indian Navy maintains formidable presence.There is also discussion going in South Block to increase proposed 3 CBG to 5 CBG or 7 CBG.And it may happens in between 20 to 30 years.
     
  10. UKBengali

    UKBengali ELITE MEMBER

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    Let us look at the scenario at the year 2030:

    US will be the strongest with 11 carrier battle-groups.

    China could have around 5-6 carriers with 3 70-80, 000 tonne carriers and 2-3 100,000 nuclear carriers.

    India will have 3 aircraft carriers with 2 40-45,000 tonne conventional carriers and 1 65,000 tonne nuclear carrier.


    So, in order, the strongest navies in the Indian Ocean will be 1.US , 2. China and India will come in at number 3.

    India can only afford 3 carriers by 2030. It's economy cannot afford more than that.
     
  11. SrNair

    SrNair ELITE MEMBER

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    Well you dont get it.Right .Indian Navy burned down pakistani port in east pakistan with just 2 casualties even if there is threat of mighty USN 7th fleet.
    Operating a ACC and its CBG need decades of experience and investment.China is a new face in the case of Carrier operation.They need at least 3 decades to become an experienced CBG to become to equal to IN and need at least 5 decades to compete USN. PLAAN real strength is there submarine fleet ,that something we lack .But fast development for formidable submarines is under way in Indian Navy .IN now envisoned more than 20 advanced submarines include 10 nuclear submarines within 20 years.At present USN is the only Navy that can become a real challenge to IN in Indian Ocean
     
  12. UKBengali

    UKBengali ELITE MEMBER

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    I think you don't get it.

    By far the most experienced Navy in WW2 was the Japanese one and it only took a few years for the less experienced US Navy to defeat it.

    China's x5 larger GDP, coupled with domestic technology, will allow it to build a much more capable Navy than the Indians over the next decades.
     
  13. neehar

    neehar SENIOR MEMBER

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    as of today no country could face india in the indian ocean except perhaps u.s.not even china,it needs it's fleet in scs.and in future when we operate a couple more ACC and a dozen more submarines,frigates..its amen

    relax buddy we'll have 3 ACC s and a couple of ssbn s much more than that.even if china has largest navy in the world they need to concentrate on scs and they have to deal with u.s,japan,south korea.india has nobody at home to deal with.our entire navy is concentrated in IOR itself.
     
  14. SrNair

    SrNair ELITE MEMBER

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    Japanese stop their achievements when nuclear bomb fall in the Nagasaki and Hiroshima.Until then they are in winning side.
    Chinese has a challenge in Pacific against ,6 CBG of USN.You are right Chinese GDP is 5 times greater than us now.But at that time Indian economy may also has some advantage.Chinese is competing US.They need huge investment in PLA and PLAAF.Because they share boundaries with lot of other countries .But in future IN navy and IAF may get huge Fund than IA.Because our land mass is in strategic location.
     
  15. UKBengali

    UKBengali ELITE MEMBER

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    INS Vishal is not planned to be commissioned till the middle of the next decade and then India would have 3 carriers.

    A lot of Indians forget that CBGs are expensive and India cannot really afford more than 3 CBGs by 2030.