• Tuesday, September 17, 2019

The fraud of Saraswati River - Hindu Myth busted

Discussion in 'Pakistan History' started by Indus Pakistan, Jan 27, 2016.

  1. Indus Pakistan

    Indus Pakistan ELITE MEMBER

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    No where in the world is history more distorted in the interest of politics then in South Asia. Mountains can be moved literally to fit in with revisionist history. One famous example of this is -

    Source > HORSEPLAY IN HARAPPA


    However there is another one. This is on continental scale. Have a look at the map below of Indus River and it's tributaries. Even a superficial glance will show that Indus flows along axis of Pakistan into the Arabian Sea. It was the centre of what has been called the Indus Valley Civilization with major centres like Harappa and Mohenjo Daro adjacent to or on the banks of the the mighty Indus.


    [​IMG]


    This geographic reality has placed the right wing groups in India in a bind. They claim the IVC as the fountain of Indian civilization however the axis of this, the Indus River is in their arch nemesis - Pakistan. This has been major source of their frustration.

    This problem has been resolved by massive distortion of facts on the ground. The axis of the IVC has been shifted east toward India or inside India. Map below.


    [​IMG]


    This has been done by imagining a intermittent stream - the Ghagger-Hakra as a raging river to match mighty Indus and then tracing a line east of the Indus as the route of this river. All this was supported by Hindu myth which spoke of a giant Saraswati River. Thus the Saraswati came alive.

    Map below. The intermittent Ghaggar-Hakra (1) marked red. Then the imaginery course of the raging "Saraswati" in black (2) emptying into the Arabian sea.


    [​IMG]



    The final product of this enterprise is the coming to life of the Saraswati River straight from ancient Hindu text which conveniently shifts the axis toward India and loads of non significant IVC sites can be declared as "major" all nicely dotted along this new axis off the IVC far east from the Indus River itself. The centre of gravity has been shifted nicely east away from the arch nemesis. This is the historical version of the "if Mohammed won't come to the mountain, we will bring mountain to Mohammed". In this case "if the river is not in India we will bring the river to India".


    [​IMG]


    So prevalent is this myth that increasingly Indus Valley Civilization is being hypenated with Saraswati with some even give it the "Saraswati" prefix. S-IVC or even Saraswati Valley Civilization reflecting the shifting of the gravity of the IVC from the west to east as shown in the map above. Example below of Saraswati myth.



    [​IMG]


    The myth being peddled below in Wiki

    Source > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaggar-Hakra_River

    More rubbish being put forth as factual history.


    [​IMG]


    It never made any sense because whilst climate has changed in that time but nothing as profound as this could have happened. Such a huge river could not possibly just vanish in the time frame in question. Other rivers in the region like Indus have been remarkably stable over this time frame. Furthermore even a causal check on the topography will show that this river could not have traversed the line given unless water ran contra gravity 4000 years ago.

    The myth though has now been so to say "busted". A multi-disciplinary, multi-national team of experts from various universities and institutes independantly funded has reported that such a river as advocated by the Saraswati lobby could not have existed. Instead the team say in the past the Ghagger-Hakra was a perennial river fed by monsoon rains which were more abundant then today. However even at it's height it was just a minor tributary of the Indus which flowed into Indus River. It still does but because of the drier climate it is now mostly dry bed although occasionally turns into torrent with heavy rainfall.


    Fluvial landscapes of the Harappan civilization

    Giosan, L; Clift, PD; Macklin, MG; Fuller, DQ; Constantinescu, S; Durcan, JA; Stevens, T; (2012) Fluvial landscapes of the Harappan civilization published in:-

    [​IMG]

    Source > Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
    Source > http://www.pnas.org/
    Quote

    "The collapse of the Bronze Age Harappan, one of the earliest urban civilizations, remains an enigma. Urbanism flourished in the western region of the Indo-Gangetic Plain for approximately 600 y, but since approximately 3,900 y ago, the total settled area and settlement sizes declined, many sites were abandoned, and a significant shift in site numbers and density towards the east is recorded. We report morphologic and chronologic evidence indicating that fluvial landscapes in Harappan territory became remarkably stable during the late Holocene as aridification intensified in the region after approximately 5,000 BP. Upstream on the alluvial plain, the large Himalayan rivers in Punjab stopped incising, while downstream, sedimentation slowed on the distinctive mega-fluvial ridge, which the Indus built in Sindh. This fluvial quiescence suggests a gradual decrease in flood intensity that probably stimulated intensive agriculture initially and encouraged urbanization around 4,500 BP. However, further decline in monsoon precipitation led to conditions adverse to both inundation- and rain-based farming. Contrary to earlier assumptions that a large glacier-fed Himalayan river, identified by some with the mythical Sarasvati, watered the Harappan heartland on the interfluve between the Indus and Ganges basins, we show that only monsoonal-fed rivers were active there during the Holocene. As the monsoon weakened, monsoonal rivers gradually dried or became seasonal, affecting habitability along their courses. Hydroclimatic stress increased the vulnerability of agricultural production supporting Harappan urbanism, leading to settlement downsizing, diversification of crops, and a drastic increase in settlements in the moister monsoon regions of the upper Punjab, Haryana, and Uttar Pradesh."


    Full article here > http://www.pnas.org/content/109/26/E1688.full.pdf



    Quote

    "Once extending more than 1 million square kilometers across the plains of the Indus River from the Arabian Sea to the Himalayas and the Ganges, over what is now Pakistan, northwest India and eastern Afghanistan, the Indus civilization was the largest—but least known—of the first great urban cultures that also included Egypt and Mesopotamia. Named for one of their largest cities, the Harappans relied on river floods to fuel their agricultural surpluses. Today, numerous remains of the Harappan settlements are located in a vast desert region far from any flowing river.

    Credit: Liviu Giosan, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution; Stefan Constantinescu, University of Bucharest; James P.M. Syvitski, University of Colorado.

    Quote

    "A new study combining the latest archaeological evidence with state-of-the-art geoscience technologies provides evidence that climate change was a key ingredient in the collapse of the great Indus or Harappan Civilization almost 4000 years ago. The study also
    resolves a long-standing debate over the source and fate of the Sarasvati, the sacred river of Hindu mythology"


    Link > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0528154943.htm



    Context map. With Indus River system (mostly in Pakistan) blue flowing south into the Arabian Sea and entirely separate Ganges River System in India flowing east into the Bay of Bengal.

    [​IMG]



    Ever since I heard this Saraswati rubbish I had my doubts. It never made sense. The only sense it made was negate Indus and replace it with Saraswati. Then give it a Hindu stamp by either calling it Saraswati Civilization or hyphenating as Saraswati-Indus Valley Civilization. Indian's are going to have to do more "Horseplay". The last map shows how the entire Indus is far out on the margins of most of India. Hell Afghanistan, Iran or even Oman are closer to then most parts of India. Mind you mention the word "Indus" and the Indian ears go erect faster then ears of my Alsatian dog when I say "food time" even when they live next to Sri Lanka or Myanmar or Thailand. Amazing !!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2016
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  2. lastofthepatriots

    lastofthepatriots SENIOR MEMBER

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    Sounds legit.
     
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  3. Levina

    Levina BANNED

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    Thanks for redirecting me to one of your latest threads @Atanz.


    so more maps and more theories?
    Mr. ET you should stop misleading your people.

    There's physical evidence of the river and I can show it to you.(watch the link below).




    1) The man giving details in the video is a Pakistani archaeologist. So i guess you will find the video authentic.

    2) When a river flows over a place for long, the water seeps down into the rocks below the river bed. And this fact has been proven by satellite images of Saraswati's riverbed (now dry). Ground water levels around Saraswati's dried path are unusually high for an arid region, marked by distict light blue in the map shown below, in contrast to the red (dry) region around it.


    image.jpeg


    why is it important to locate Saraswati river?

    The places through which the mighty river used to flow is now dry. As shown in the map.
    But if we can access the water thats trapped below the dry river bed then it will help thousands of farmers living in the arid parts of thar desert.
    If the river bed is located then it will help your people and mine.



    2.png






    @Atanz do you still believe Saraswati is a hindu propaganda?
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
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  4. Indus Pakistan

    Indus Pakistan ELITE MEMBER

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    [QUOTE="Levina, post: 8112210, member: 149497"@Atanz do you still believe Saraswati is a hindu propaganda?[/QUOTE]

    Yes, absolute fraud. Did you even read the multi-national report by group of scientists from many backgrounds - Indian, Pakistani, British, American, Romanian Italian who completed there thorough investigation and made their findings were published. I will give link again. Read it. These are people expert in fluvial dynamics of rivers.

    Link: Liviu Giosana et al > Full article here > http://www.pnas.org/content/109/26/E1688.full.pdf

    This report has been peer reviewed and published in;-

    [​IMG]

    Link > http://www.pnas.org/
     
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  5. Kabira

    Kabira ELITE MEMBER

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    I wonder what will happen once Rakhigarhi skeletons genetic results come, either Pakistanis will be happy or Indians lol Either way history will be rewritten. Looks like we only have to wait few week now.
     
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  6. Levina

    Levina BANNED

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    okay i will read it.
    And reply back later.
     
  7. Indus Pakistan

    Indus Pakistan ELITE MEMBER

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    I have zero trust if the tests are only done inside India. That also applies to Pakistan. In both countries the political leverage is too much for impartial scientific research. Only if outside agency of repute is involved othewise it's waste of time.

    More here.

    Quote.

    "

    • [​IMG]


    Rosanne Skirble
    May 30, 2012 2:25 PM

    Climate change may have hastened the end of the largest civilization in the ancient world, according to a study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

    The Indus empire, larger than its contemporaries Egypt and Mesopotamia combined, once held 10 percent of the world’s population and spanned 1 million square kilometers across the plains of the Indus River, from the Arabian Sea to the Ganges, encompassing what is today Pakistan, eastern Afghanistan and northwest India.

    Despite its great cities and trade routes, the Indus civilization disappeared some 3,000 years ago and was nearly forgotten until the 20th Century, when archaeologists began unearthing its lost treasures.

    [​IMG]Trenches reveal signs of how the landscape was shaped by rivers, wind and climate. (Peter D. Clift/University of Aberdeen)
    Unlike the Egyptians or the Mesopotamians, the Indus didn’t build large temples or pyramids. Lead author Liviu Giosan, a geologist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, says the Indus people were more interested in agriculture and trade

    “They farmed all the Indus Basin," Giosan says. "They had an extremely developed network of roads. They had sea links with Mesopotamia. They built big cities, orderly cities, in a grid. They had plumbing that was never encountered after that until the Romans came.”

    Archeological ruins of the Indus people, also known as the Harappans, were discovered in the 1920s. Studies since then have described an urban culture with sophisticated construction, sanitation systems, arts and crafts, and writing still not deciphered.

    In their work, Giosan and his colleagues used satellite images and topographical data to construct a model of the landscape where the Indus developed 5,200 years ago, built their cities, and then slowly declined between 3,900 and 3,000 years ago.

    “We went and dug trenches, or took sediment cores, or drilled to collect samples of sediment, so that we could understand where they formed," Giosan says. "Were they formed by the river? Were they formed by the wind, and when [were] they formed?”

    Source > http://www.voanews.com/content/climate-change-may-have-hastened-indus-empires-collapse/1145303.html
     
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  8. Kabira

    Kabira ELITE MEMBER

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    They are done with collaboration of south korea. Pakistan and India don't have technology to extract ancient DNA. I hope soon Pakistan follow suite and think about extracting DNA from so many skeletons found in all over IVC sites.

    This scientific study about supposed saraswati river was done many years ago. No Indian nationalist belived it back then and they will not now.
     
  9. Srinivas

    Srinivas ELITE MEMBER

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    This river is mentioned in Mahabharata, this epic dates back to 1000 B.C


    Saraswati River evidence also strengthens "out of India" theory.
     
  10. Indus Pakistan

    Indus Pakistan ELITE MEMBER

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    Well let's see what happens. Well the Hindutwa fanatics will not believe even if they went back in time machine and saw it with their owns eyes. These retards think all the land under our feet is their property. Delusional is what they are. Sat in Chennai, Kolkata or Pune anmd dreaming about Indus while worshipping Holy Ganges.

    It's like Pakistani's start dreaming about Nile, Egypt and Tigris in Mesoptamian Iraq while sat in Pakistan. Below the map puts things in perspective. Look at the Indus Valley and how marginal it is to India. Most Indian's live hundreds if not thousand miles away from it yet they all dreram about Indus. Ganges is their lifeline.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2016
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  11. Srinivas

    Srinivas ELITE MEMBER

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    Saraswati River is monsoon fed river, in Mahabharata it was mentioned that a mighty river existed which flowed through Rajasthan and Gujarat.

    They cannot give the evidence where this River is and they blindly deny the evidence infront of them.
     
  12. Indus Pakistan

    Indus Pakistan ELITE MEMBER

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    Guys before I go the source is from a top of line US institute - Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution with mixed team of scientists from USA, Italy, UK, India, Pakistan and Romania. The full team is listed. Then the findings were published on reputable scientific journals. This is not some third rate garbage but proper scientific report.

    [​IMG]
    • [​IMG]

    Full PDF format report here >http://www.pnas.org/content/109/26/E1688.full.pdf
    Published on PNAS > http://www.pnas.org/

    Link > http://www.voanews.com/content/climate-change-may-have-hastened-indus-empires-collapse/1145303.html
    Link > http://popular-archaeology.com/issu...ent-indus-civilization-demise-researchers-say
     
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  13. Levina

    Levina BANNED

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    Brace up ET...


    1) The article that you have posted is old.
    upload_2016-1-26_23-51-20.png

    2) I have already posted pictures from remote sensing satellites. Remote sensing images of the ISRO and the Geological Survey of India (gsi) have already found the existence of palaeo-channels of a mighty river, call it any whatever name you choose- Saraswati or ghagar- hakra.
    ISRO is one of the most reliable sources I can quote. Remember Chandrayaan and Mangalyaan??Just few of ISRO's achievements.

    3) A geophysical survey undertaken by the RGWD in the Tanot and Longewala areas indicated the existence of coarse sediments in the depth range of 30 to 60 metres pointing to the possibility of the existence of a river in the region.
    Nearly 2000 of the 2600 Harappan sites that have been discovered, are situated on the old palaeo-channels of Saraswati.

    upload_2016-1-27_0-4-59.png

    4) I have already told you how river water seeps through the rocks while it flows over a region and then remains trapped there for long.
    One of the video that i posted earlier was from Pakistan, where tube wells were dug after farmers stumbled upon some of Saraswati's palaeo-channels.
    On this side of the border RGWD scientists were amazed by the fact that fresh water was available in many places of Jaisalmer district(Rajasthan) and some wells never dried up. Let me tell you Jaisalmer's water is known to be saline. Investigations revealed that about 100 metres away from the site of the fresh water the groundwater was saline.
    Interesting isnt it???
    How do you think its possible???
    Further, some of CGWB's observation stations for monitoring groundwater have found fresh water in the depth range of 30-40 metres. These stations are located in a linear pattern in the northeast-southeast direction, and never go dry. Any explanation???
    During the survey alluvial sediments were found at a depth of 78-100 metres, pointing to the existence of a flow channel. It also points towards the existence of a fresh water source along the palaeo-channel.

    5) The ground water so discovered was then tested by Bhabha atomic research center (BARC), Mumbai. And they found the water dated back 4000-8000years.

    upload_2016-1-27_0-39-47.png

    source:

    1.jpg
    and the authors are NOT indians.

    6) Who will benefit from the project to trace Saraswati's channels?
    a) Poor farmers of the thar desert (which covers the western borders of India shared with Pakistan).
    b)Soldiers- Indian defence ministry has shown its ineterst in the project as it could mean adequate water supply to its soldiers stationed on the India-Pakistan border.



    so if you still believe that Saraswati was a mythical river then you're gonna miss the bus again. Just heads-up.



    ..
     
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  14. EAK

    EAK FULL MEMBER

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    LOL.. Level hy bhai brain washing ka india main...:rofl: @Zibago
     
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  15. Pandora

    Pandora SENIOR MEMBER

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    LoL why are you ramming your head with bafoons who believe old myths over physical evidence. Even if you put all the evidence in the world Indians wont believe it. Pakistan was the center of a great civilization which irks them

    :rofl::rofl::rofl:
    It is ok to forget history but to be dillusional to point where you cant even see reality is utterly moronic.
    Sure mate go ahead. And without pakistani consent you wont get a drop of it as well. Water is the basic necessity of life which if you stop will lead to a full scale war. This is a fact known by india otherwise you people would have done so already.
     
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