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The First F-15EX Fighter Jet Has Now Flown In Its Air Force Colors

LeGenD

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Both F-15EX and Rafale are great fighters but which is better depends on the mission at hand.

If IAF planners were great they would get both F-15EX (as part of MMRCA/MRFA) and Rafales (two follow-on squadrons) to cover all missions and bases.

Only F-15EX + Rafale will give a fighting chance for IAF to defend against PAF + PLAAF.

Russians will support China over India.

Indian SU-30MKIs + MIG-29UPG will be no match to joint Sino-Pak assault along LAC & LOC.

But I am confident that IAF planners will make a mistake. They have always been bad planners. Penny wise pound foolish.

And rest assured, we have an uneducated, narcissistic and egoist tea seller in Modi to ensure that India will make a grave mistake.
Fair points again.

The F15EX is state-of-the-art strike platform and would be COSTLY to induct in numbers coupled with necessary infrastructure to build and munitions to procure as a long-term feature. The Americans will also have a say in how to manage and operate this stuff in the mix. This is something new and too sophisticated for Indian tastes in the present.

IAF is rather set in its old ways and does not have sufficient political will to commit to radical transformation in its doctrines and procurement considerations anytime soon. Indians are comfortable working with the Russians and the French, and they are more into domestic experiments lately.

Americans can certainly help transform Indian war-machine into a very potent regional force but they will demand concessions which Indians might not be willing to give anytime soon.

Good for Pakistan, and I have nothing to complain. :)

On the flip side, costly arms race are not beneficial to regional players with struggling economies and poor socioeconomics and also at the expense of sovereignty on top. Good countries should strive for lasting peace and not feed military industrial complexes which thrive on conflict and chaos.
 

HalfMoon

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Fair points again.

The F15EX is state-of-the-art strike platform and would be COSTLY to induct in numbers coupled with necessary infrastructure to build and munitions to procure as a long-term feature. The Americans will also have a say in how to manage and operate this stuff in the mix. This is something new and too sophisticated for Indian tastes in the present.

IAF is rather set in its old ways and does not have sufficient political will to commit to radical transformation in its doctrines and procurement considerations anytime soon. Indians are comfortable working with the Russians and the French, and they are more into domestic experiments lately.

Americans can certainly help transform Indian war-machine into a very potent regional force but they will demand concessions which Indians might not be willing to give anytime soon.

Good for Pakistan, and I have nothing to complain. :)

On the flip side, costly arms race are not beneficial to regional players with struggling economies and poor socioeconomics and also at the expense of sovereignty on top. Good countries should strive for lasting peace and not feed military industrial complexes which thrive on conflict and chaos.
Very well said. American can not only enhance Indian capability through hardware but also by imparting their knowledge on strategies and training.

But I have faith in Indian planners. They will not disappoint us by making the mistake of not partnering with the Americans.
 

A.P. Richelieu

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Because Indians are clueless on how to handle China + Pakistan.

Whatever option they pick the end result will be the same. Destruction and Decimation of India at the hands of joint China-Pakistan attack.
Reading this comment, suddenly an phrase I heard many years ago appeared in my mind.

”It is ridiculous to listen to coughing lice”.

I wonder why?
 

Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8

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Thanks for the link. I think you missed the point in there.

Visual pointer:



The F-15EX is equipped with some of the most powerful of sensor systems including EW solution(s) to facilitate its missions. Do you recall NATO strikes in Syria in 2018? The lesser known aspect of it is this: a single EA-6B Prowler (now retired) spearheaded the mission and was sufficient to complicate missile interception possibilities for advanced Russian A2/AD defenses including the powerful S-400 system in the theater. Now imagine SEAD possibilities with state-of-the-art EPAWSS for F-15EX. You cannot conceal everything so it helps to push the envelope in the sensor package instead.

S-400 system is among the very best of A2/AD hardware in the present and won't be a lesser thing by 2028; I am not sure what will be so different in 2028 and beyond in the A2/AD regime.

If you are able to achieve brilliance in computing technologies, net-sensing, hypersonics, EW solutions, and automations, you are going to dominate in theater of operations for many years to come.


Thanks for your breakdowns...Do you think the upcoming S-500 systems can alter the air defense situation completely? no need to answer if my question is inane and superflous
 

MirageBlue

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Indonesia IMO is likely to buy F15 EX as replacement of SU 35 deal for 8 planes. The budget for that actually has been approved. It will be perfect if Indonesia can also continue its joint program with South Korea in KFX/IFX project.

View attachment 722474
Apparently also interested in the Rafale. And also interested in second hand Austrian Eurofighters.

why not rationalize the fleet with 3 types including the KF-X and F-16 and 1 new type? How does it make sense to buy a new type in such a small number? Hard to maintain, train with such small numbers of different types. Logistics will be difficult as well.
 

Indos

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Apparently also interested in the Rafale. And also interested in second hand Austrian Eurofighters.

why not rationalize the fleet with 3 types including the KF-X and F-16 and 1 new type? How does it make sense to buy a new type in such a small number? Hard to maintain, train with such small numbers of different types. Logistics will be difficult as well.
That is my analysis that we are just going to buy 8 F 15 EX for 2021-2024 to reach two target, first this 8 planes can improve our defense a lot, not too mention its missile capacity which is double current fighter plane. Second the purchase is valuable to develop KFX/IFX further.

This is a heavy fighter that is comparable with SU 35 that was previously planned to be purchased to fill previous F 5 squadron. Based on the S35 deal we are just going to buy 11 planes, so if we change it to F15EX with 8 planes, it is still not much different in term of number of planes we are going to buy. Due to CATSA, we are likely to scrap previous SU 35 deal, it also could endanger our KFX/IFX program by looking to what has been experienced by Turkey.

I dont think we are going to buy Rafale, that is just a plan from Air Force and recently the Air Force has said they will let Defense Ministry and Government to choose which type we are going to buy. They just said the chosen type should meet with their requirement, while in other hand I think we are not going to purchase it now (2021-2024). Rafale is not a heavy weight and long range fighter like F 15 EX, its role can be replaced by KFX/IFX fighters. I think this administration which has been wellknown for its economic and industry centrict point of view, would rather wait for KFX/IFX program to fill new squadrons.

I believe we still have reasonable and sane people in the administration and all of the purchase should pass Bappenas and it is the brain of our long term economic and industry strategy.

 
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foxhoundbis

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1. Vastly superior radar system
2. Vastly superior processing capabilities
3. Vastly superior EW capabilities
4. Vastly superior payload capacity
5. Vastly superior range
6. Vastly superior speed

F-15 EX and Rafale are not in the same class to begin with. You couldn't ask a worse question.
It is of course a "Vastly" subjective view, based on none fact. However, as a mere POV, it deserves to exist.
 

LeGenD

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It is of course a "Vastly" subjective view, based on none fact. However, as a mere POV, it deserves to exist.
French Rafale is a very good aircraft in general terms with merits of its own (among the best in its class) but it is not exactly high-end among Western solutions. This is the impression in informed Western circles as well.

1. Let us consider radar system(s) in use.


The F-15EX is equipped with even more powerful radar system than AN/APG-81 which is already much bigger and superior to RBE-2AA. American pilots have repeatedly pointed out that some of the most powerful sensor systems are found in F-15s due to obvious reasons.

2. The mission computer of the F-15EX is the most powerful in any jet fighter at 87 billion instructions per second. Feel free to tell me about the same in Rafale.

3. Following EW solution:



- leverage 5th generation technologies and among the most comprehensive EW solutions in use.

The F-15EX is receiving EPAWSS which is next-generation extrapolation of DEWS; it took 4 billion USD to develop and it is repeatedly stated to be designed with EMERGING threats in mind. This solution makes it possible for F-15EX to substitute even dedicated SEAD platforms such as EA-18G Growler for operations in dense A2/AD environments with relevant payloads (significant Force multiplier in this area). This solution offers Far-reaching PASSIVE warning, detection, and geolocation capabilities in both air-to-surface and air-to-air regimes in dense signal environments. Much about EPAWSS is classified however.

4. Absolutely

Payload capacity of F-15EX = 29500 lbs
Payload capacity of Rafale = 20000 lbs

The F-15EX have sufficient space and accommodation for hypersonics in particular - this type of payload will be increasingly relevant in the years to come.

5. Absolutely

Ferry range of F-15EX = 2992 miles
Ferry range of Rafale = 2300 miles

6. Absolutely

Maximum speed of F-15EX = MACH 3.0 capable (MACH 2.5 officially stated)
Maximum speed of Rafale = MACH 1.8

There are additional areas in which the F-15EX is noticeably better than the Rafale including also in the Sensor Fusion aspect. It is not wise to compare these two jet fighters because the F-15EX will make numerous jet fighters look LEMONS in comparison. The F-15EX represents maximization of warfighting capabilities in the heavyweight class let alone in lower weights.
 
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In my opinion, this will the fighter to offer the stiffest competition to the Rafale for the 114 MRFA contract in India. It's an extremely capable fighter, but the cost of acquisition and operations will be very high, definitely the highest of the other 4.5 gen fighters including Rafale, Typhoon, F-21, Gripen E and MiG-35. Only Su-35E will be costlier to operate and maintain.
One Aircraft IAF should consider.

In all possibility it will be more Rafale orders but this aircraft is a beast.
F15 EX is far better than Rafael it's a heavy weight fighter with very advanced capabilities..... as far as MRCA is concerned India doesn't have to budget to purchase 114 F15EX, just 36 F15QA were somewhere around 8 to 12 billion dollars...... in addition to that IAF is using nearly 300 heavy weight su 30s it doesn't make sense to induct more heavy weight fighters.... medium weight fighters are needed that are not very expensive to operate and maintain.
Can I ask you guys not to make this thread about India?
 

Itachi

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5th generation designs are too expensive to be mass produced, and are not a workhorse.
Currently. ;)

Indonesia IMO is likely to buy F15 EX as replacement of SU 35 deal for 8 planes. The budget for that actually has been approved. It will be perfect if Indonesia can also continue its joint program with South Korea in KFX/IFX project.

View attachment 722474
Now that's a Beast!
 

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