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The Day JF-17 Thundered In Indian Occupied Kashmir !

Windjammer

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Just wondering who went running to Bill Clinton. How many times victors and those who have their boot on the necks go running like that.

Propaganda is part of statecraft. But, only till it goes to these limits.
You do always like to jump into a debate ( If we can call it that) without knowing the backdrop or substance.
Here's a brief insight to what actually transpired during that period.

Given these consequences, the U.S. was quick to make known our view that Pakistan should withdraw its forces back behind the Line of Control immediately. At first Rick Inderfurth and Undersecretary Thomas Pickering conveyed this view privately to the Pakistani and Indian ambassadors in Washington in late May. Secretary Albright then called Sharif two days later and General Tony Zinni, who had a very close relationship with his Pakistani counterparts, also called Chief of Army Staff General Musharraf.

These messages did not work. So we went public and called upon Pakistan to respect the LOC. I laid out our position in an on the record interview at the Foreign Press Center in Washington. The President then called both leaders in mid-June and sent letters to each pressing for a Pakistani withdrawal and Indian restraint.

The Pakistanis and Indians were both surprised by the U.S. position: Pakistan because Islamabad assumed the US. would always back them against India and India because they could not believe the U.S. would judge the crisis on its merits, rather than side automatically with its long time Pakistani ally. Both protagonists were rooted in the history of their conflict and astounded that the U.S. was not bound by the past.
 

VkdIndian

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You do always like to jump into a debate ( If we can call it that) without knowing the backdrop or substance.
I questioned your conclusion “foot on neck” that you made in your post. This one and few of your previous do sound like a frustrated bloke who is using a language that perfectly suits your reputation on this forum. JUMPING seems to be happening only from your side as visible by your frustrated posts.

Given these consequences, the U.S. was quick to make known our view that Pakistan should withdraw its forces back behind the Line of Control immediately. At first Rick Inderfurth and Undersecretary Thomas Pickering conveyed this view privately to the Pakistani and Indian ambassadors in Washington in late May. Secretary Albright then called Sharif two days later and General Tony Zinni, who had a very close relationship with his Pakistani counterparts, also called Chief of Army Staff General Musharraf.

These messages did not work. So we went public and called upon Pakistan to respect the LOC. I laid out our position in an on the record interview at the Foreign Press Center in Washington. The President then called both leaders in mid-June and sent letters to each pressing for a Pakistani withdrawal and Indian restraint.

The Pakistanis and Indians were both surprised by the U.S. position: Pakistan because Islamabad assumed the US. would always back them against India and India because they could not believe the U.S. would judge the crisis on its merits, rather than side automatically with its long time Pakistani ally. Both protagonists were rooted in the history of their conflict and astounded that the U.S. was not bound by the past.
You have penned a long story without any insight on your “foot on neck” conclusion.
There are ample references available that clearly bring out that US administration was not very keen for the meeting with your PM. But someone almost went on the knees for the same.

Whatever you want to spin is your choice. But if your start spinning “foot on the neck” then there are enough documentary evidences from renowned and respectable sources that would clearly bring out what transpired before and during that meeting. So I suggest you don’t start it.

There are enough insights on the status of the military conflict where you are claiming “foot on the neck”.
 

Windjammer

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I questioned your conclusion “foot on neck” that you made in your post. This one and few of your previous do sound like a frustrated bloke who is using a language that perfectly suits your reputation on this forum. JUMPING seems to be happening only from your side as visible by your frustrated posts.



You have penned a long story without any insight on your “foot on neck” conclusion.
There are ample references available that clearly bring out that US administration was not very keen for the meeting with your PM. But someone almost went on the knees for the same.

Whatever you want to spin is your choice. But if your start spinning “foot on the neck” then there are enough documentary evidences from renowned and respectable sources that would clearly bring out what transpired before and during that meeting. So I suggest you don’t start it.

There are enough insights on the status of the military conflict where you are claiming “foot on the neck”.
Do you have any substance to add other than parroting same nonsense about reputation and getting frustrated...I can understand you rubbing your country fellows back but don't consider your self as some one in a position to start judging others. ....the foot on the neck has been well documented by your own Netas and media to this day. And what is there to be frustrated about.....I'm not the one browsing Indian forums desperate to have a voice.


Pakistan occupying six Indian peaks, claims MP

https://www.rediff.com/news/2000/aug/30josy.htm
 

VkdIndian

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Do you have any substance to add other than parroting same nonsense about reputation and getting frustrated
Ahhhh. Here comes the man with proof and citations. I hope you wouldn’t run away now as I bring out proof that brings out the facts.

Could you please comment on few facts brought out in these :-



Few excerpts from Kaiser Tufail’s article

1. In an effort to keep the plan secret, which was thought to be the key to its successful initiation, the Army trio took no one into confidence, neither its own operational commanders nor the heads of the other services. This, regrettably, resulted in a closed-loop thought process which engendered a string of oversights and failures:
Failure to grasp the wider military and diplomatic ramifications of a limited tactical operation that had the potential of creating major strategic effects.
Failure to correctly visualise the response of a powerful enemy to what was, in effect, a major blow in a disputed sector.
Failure to spell out the specific aim to field commanders, who acted on their own to needlessly capture territory and expand the scope of the operation to unmanageable levels.
Failure to appreciate the inability of the Army officers to evaluate the capabilities and limitations of an Air Force.
Failure to coordinate contingency plans at the tri-services level.

2. From the very beginning of Kargil operations, PAF was entrapped by a circumstantial absurdity: it was faced with the ludicrous predicament of having to provide air support to infiltrators already disowned by the Pakistan Army leadership!

The soldiers on those peaks were dying due to lack of rations. Salute to their bravery inspite of being disowned by the higher ups.

Former ISI Chief Assad Durrani has brought out quite a few damning facts about Kargil Misadventure in his book. Shall I bring them out ? I am quite sure you would call him a corrupt and disowned General. Most convenient path adopted by fact finders like you.

“Foot on the Neck” with Air Force, Navy and top Army commanders out of the loop?
“Foot on the neck” with own soldiers being disowned by the Pak Army?
 

Trango Towers

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<sigh>

Yes the only thing we have achieved and are proud of to keep opening a post every few days !

Just pray that with the next skirmish or major battle you don't end up like the mofo Endian posters jumping around like monkeys touting "Raptors of the East" and "PAF be picked off while trying to take off from their bases" and then thrashing around in their dead throes like chickens with their heads chopped off when the time came.
I will be with you blasting any Indian poster that tries to belittle or falsify PAF's achievement and professionalism.
But otherwise give it a rest please.
Has that ever happened in the history of PAF.
People like you....glass alway half empty (pun intended )
 

GumNaam

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didn't we were not entered Indian airspace and drop from standoff ranges (inside Pakistani airspace) and i think Mirage did the strike JF-17 is for escorting Mirages, i could be wrong sir but can you tell me how many IRECKs drop by our strike package sir???
Negative. The Mirages did not cross the loc. Thunders did cross the loc and stayed in iiok's airspace for a quite a few minutes with literally no challenge from i ain't flyin' (iaf). their makhis & m2000s couldn't lock from bvr ranges due to Thunder's EW capabilities and were too scared to come in closer for wvr air combat. m2000 radars got dysentery & had to return to base for for some haazma tuning and peptobismal. :dirol:
 

khanmubashir

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And which bomb is that supposed to be?
Modi bs bomb for dumb sanghis
Yes, those are mortars, and in the corner clearly written as ' File' in Hindi suggesting they were representative pictures and not related to the incident talked about in the video clip.
So chutyabhakt don't even have pictures of unexploded paf bombs to justify their claim :)
 
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siegecrossbow

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Negative. The Mirages did not cross the loc. Thunders did cross the loc and stayed in iiok's airspace for a quite a few minutes with literally no challenge from i ain't flyin' (iaf). their makhis & m2000s couldn't lock from bvr ranges due to Thunder's EW capabilities and were too scared to come in closer for wvr air combat. m2000 radars got dysentery & had to return to base for for some haazma tuning and peptobismal. :dirol:
Rumor has it that during the Shaheen exercises the PLAAF uses the J-10A to simulate the Mirage-2000 in close range combat by restricting the use of afterburner.
 

khanmubashir

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I keep hearing about these unexploded bombs but never see them...hmmmm
That's the point all sanghis and Godi media claims are based on bs and barking but can't provide any clear footage of bombing of balakot or these supposed dud Bombs paf already released the sensor footage of the bombs hitting empty spaces at Indian hq year's ago
 

GumNaam

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Rumor has it that during the Shaheen exercises the PLAAF uses the J-10A to simulate the Mirage-2000 in close range combat by restricting the use of afterburner.
yeah I've heard that as well. with allowing full afterburners, the J10 is up to par with the rafale as far as accelerating and maneuvering during tight turns is concerned.
 
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