What's new

TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

Indos

PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
Jul 25, 2013
20,442
23
21,540
Country
Indonesia
Location
Indonesia

Possible since CDR is not yet completed, detail design in my opinion is not yet started. Current prototype is not a flying prototype. Turkey release it soon IMO is due to Erdogan political target as in 2023 there will be Turkiye General election. This is why flight test is conducted in 2026 based on schedule.

When we see development of other airplane, like KF21, usually detail design spends around 1 year. KF21 basic design completion is in July 2018 and detail design started in July 2018 and completed in September 2019.

They are now IMO is still thinking about engine, detail design cannot be started before engine is already chosen. But could possibly that twitter is just hoax, as according to report American engine F110 have been bought for TFX prototypes.

1669475211135.png


Prototype will only be produced after CDR is completed, see the date and year

1669475888005.png

1669475907796.png
 
Last edited:

Deino

INT'L MOD
Nov 9, 2014
11,987
21
22,068
Country
Germany
Location
Germany

aziqbal

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 26, 2010
5,354
8
7,599
Country
United Kingdom
Location
United Kingdom
10 x TFX within 10 years is probably the shortest time to a 5th generation development

hope its a robust program and not rushed

wish the TX had started earlier, 10 years earlier and by now we would have it operational
 

GiantPanda

FULL MEMBER
Nov 8, 2016
690
-1
1,640
Country
China
Location
United States
Well ??? How much sense does it make to develop de fact three different variants of prototypes for three different engines?

And what engines?: the US type is the F110, in China only a WS-10/B/C could fit but I doubt, China would deliver it to a NATO country and Russia offers what? Surely not the Izd.30!

Obviously it would make no sense to build three difference prototypes.

The issue is if the F110 is embargoed otherwise there would be no discussion.

If Turkey cannot get the F110 then where is the replacement? Of readily available heavy class engines, there are only those from Russia and China and most likely they would be AL-31 and WS-10 since both had been exported. The Turks will need something to power the prototypes -- again only if the F110 is held up by politics.
 

Hold the door

FULL MEMBER

New Recruit

Jul 10, 2021
59
0
45
Country
Turkey
Location
Turkey
Our plan for MMU is probably as follows:

By 2028, 14 prototypes will be produced. 12 of them will fly with F110 engine, 2 of them will fly with domestic engine.

If the domestic engine is delayed, the first block planes produced until 2035 will fly with the F110 engine.

For the domestic engine, two roads will be followed at the same time. Both KALE-RR partnership and TEI will develop two different engines. Whichever is successful will be used. It would be best if both succeeded.

Russia, China and Ukraine are definitely not among our engine plans.
 

GiantPanda

FULL MEMBER
Nov 8, 2016
690
-1
1,640
Country
China
Location
United States
Our plan for MMU is probably as follows:

By 2028, 14 prototypes will be produced. 12 of them will fly with F110 engine, 2 of them will fly with domestic engine.

If the domestic engine is delayed, the first block planes produced until 2035 will fly with the F110 engine.

For the domestic engine, two roads will be followed at the same time. Both KALE-RR partnership and TEI will develop two different engines. Whichever is successful will be used. It would be best if both succeeded.

Russia, China and Ukraine are definitely not among our engine plans.

So there is no risk of the F110 being held up and no backup plan is needed as suggested by those tweets?
 

Indos

PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
Jul 25, 2013
20,442
23
21,540
Country
Indonesia
Location
Indonesia
Lets make comparison

Specifications​

F110-GE-129​

Data from General Electric,[21][22] American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME),[8] MTU[23]

General characteristics​

-----------------------------------------------------

Specifications (WS-10A)​

Data from [28]

General characteristics​

  • Type: Afterburning turbofan
  • Length: 4.95 m (16.2 ft)
  • Diameter: 1.16 m (3 ft 10 in)
  • Dry weight: 1,704 kg (3,757 lb)
----------------------------------------------------------

Quite match I think, I mean the basic design that have been completed will likely be compatible with American and Chinese engine, but they need to be firm on which engine before starting detail design phase, some adjustment on basic design should be done as well if current design is based on F110 engine

-----------------------------------------------------------




AL-31F​

Data from Gordon,[27] Rosoboronexport,[28] United Engine Corporation,[29] UMPO,[30][31] Saylut[32]

General characteristics​

 
Last edited:

Hold the door

FULL MEMBER

New Recruit

Jul 10, 2021
59
0
45
Country
Turkey
Location
Turkey
So there is no risk of the F110 being held up and no backup plan is needed as suggested by those tweets?
When we use a Chinese or Russian engine, we become dependent again. There is no advantage in being dependent on China or Russia instead of the USA.

Our main goal is to produce engines without export restrictions.
 

Indos

PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST
Jul 25, 2013
20,442
23
21,540
Country
Indonesia
Location
Indonesia
When we use a Chinese or Russian engine, we become dependent again. There is no advantage in being dependent on China or Russia instead of the USA.

Our main goal is to produce engines without export restrictions.

The problem is that GE still dont show Turkish TFX as their possible F110 engine users, it is quite worrying


While GE F414 engine shows KFX and Tejas MK2 already in their website, have Turkey made any contract yet with GE for F110 engine ? Can I see the link ?

 

Hold the door

FULL MEMBER

New Recruit

Jul 10, 2021
59
0
45
Country
Turkey
Location
Turkey
The problem is that GE still dont show Turkish TFX as their possible F110 engine users, it is quite worrying


While GE F414 engine shows KFX and Tejas MK2 already in their website, have Turkey made any contract yet with GE for F110 engine ? Can I see the link ?

The engines to be used in the prototypes have already been delivered.


There is no agreement for the engines to be used in the first blocks. Our goal is to use domestic engines in the first blocks.
 

GiantPanda

FULL MEMBER
Nov 8, 2016
690
-1
1,640
Country
China
Location
United States
When we use a Chinese or Russian engine, we become dependent again. There is no advantage in being dependent on China or Russia instead of the USA.

Our main goal is to produce engines without export restrictions.

Of course but my question is geared towards just the engines for the prototypes and initial batch (if necessary) in case you don't get the F110.

Turkey's plan with the local engine wouldn't change whether the prototype's engine is the F110 or another foreign engine.

If the F110 is embargoed then what will Turkey do? Put off the prototype until the domestic engine is done?

Lets make comparison

Specifications​

F110-GE-129​

Data from General Electric,[21][22] American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME),[8] MTU[23]

General characteristics​

-----------------------------------------------------

Specifications (WS-10A)​

Data from [28]

General characteristics​

  • Type: Afterburning turbofan
  • Length: 4.95 m (16.2 ft)
  • Diameter: 1.16 m (3 ft 10 in)
  • Dry weight: 1,704 kg (3,757 lb)
----------------------------------------------------------

Quite match I think, I mean the basic design that have been completed will likely be compatible with American and Chinese engine, but they need to be firm on which engine before starting detail design phase, some adjustment on basic design should be done as well if current design is based on F110 engine

-----------------------------------------------------------




AL-31F​

Data from Gordon,[27] Rosoboronexport,[28] United Engine Corporation,[29] UMPO,[30][31] Saylut[32]

General characteristics​


They are the same class engines so they will be roughly the same size and weight. Most fighters are designed around either heavy or medium turbofan classes. Turkey went for the heavy instead of the medium (F404/414/RD33/WS-13) class in the TFX so you can pretty much guess which available engines it can theoretically use.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom