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Sayfullah

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Yes, even the Western family system is based on money-based anti-democracy but at least that family system doesn't do honor killing and force its children to suicide in the cause of stupid marks in stupid exams like happens in desi lands or in Indonesia where pre-marital sex has been made severely punishable recently. :)



Silence, NATO-created mullah ghey boi murtad. Go serve your imams, Obomba and B'liar.
Shut up pervert
 

LeGenD

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Bhai, sensitive theme in what way ? :) In another thread yesterday I quoted names of Muslim philosophers beginning 1200 years ago ( this post ) who found the teachings of Buddha similar to the teachings of Islam and they included Buddha as one of the 124,000 prophets of Islam. If they, existing 200 years on after the founding of Islam, discussed then what makes Islam Islam and the commonalities with other progressive and humanist philosophies why should some on PDF in 2022 think they are the experts on Islam when they are just ritualists like a Brahman priest praying 40 times a day and feeding idols ? :) In May this year I wrote this post about the simplicity of Islam including why Muslim women are prohibited from having any sign of marriage. What I wrote seven months ago can never be written by the Areeshs and the Sayfullahs ever, and they being ritualists, literalists and non-thinkers can only gather in lynch mobs whether against me or Mashal Khan in AWK University in Pakistan in 2017. Who were part of the Islamic Golden Age - ritualists like al-Ghazali, Areesh, Sayfullah or is it people like me and Ismail al-Jazari and those earlier mentioned philosophers ? :) 800 years ago an oppressed peasant in Punjab or Dagestan or Mauritania adopted Islam not because there were Areesh and Sayfullah going to him or her and ordering them to start praying 10 times a day. That wouldn't change their oppressed life one bit. The peasant adopted Islam because I went there and told the woman that the idea of Islam enables her to choose her own man with or without the consent of her parents and village head and marry with a contract that can be broken and I told the male peasant that he will construct a mosque where the idea is not to make it a "house of god" and assign an agent of god called priest but the mosque will be a place of community congregation and where during prayer no person is superior or inferior, with the village head standing beside the peasant, and I told the female and male peasants that the local money lender who had been oppressing them for years by taking more than what he gave to them even by force and even at the point of rendering them homeless or driving them to suicide all by charging interest, Islam has abolished interest. Thus, the oppressed female and male peasants would have told Areesh and Sayfullah to be on their way for delivering nonsense that doesn't improve anybody's life and the peasants would listen to me.

It is OK to talk about Islam but with homework.

Did Buddha believe in Oneness of God and preach it? NO. He cannot be regarded as a Prophet therefore. He was a spiritual philosopher at most.

- - -

Islam is based on teachings of the Holy Quran (primary source) and Hadith (secondary source). It should be understood in the light of these sources in large part. Some Islamic scholars could also provide meaningful perspectives in relation such as Ibn-e-Khaldun and others who helped address errors in Hadith. This is sufficient to understand Islam in its true light.

If you are interested in "comparative religion" perspectives then check works of Al Biruni and Ibn Hazm.

Now there are Islamic scholars who draw from other philosophies to conceptualize new types of perspectives such as Al-Farabi, Averroes, and Suhrawardi but these should be regarded with caution.

- - -

I checked your post - it has valid points but those women rights also have "rules."
- If a woman is sole child of her parents then she has full claim on her parent's property. If she has siblings then Allah Almighty has pointed out a property division rule among them.
- Husband is supposed to provide for his wife.
- There is a hadith which suggest that a woman's consent is important for marriage to a man: it is wrong to force a woman to marry a man against her will in other words. On the flip side, a woman should respect her parents (or her guardian) because Islam instructs a man to seek a woman's hand in marriage from her family in line with relevant teachings of the Holy Quran. A woman can choose her husband but she should take her parents into confidence in this regard: if her parents object to her choice then she should have a look at their choice(s) to make up her mind. If she concludes that her choice is best then she can try to convince her parents that he is the one for her - this is correct approach. Islam puts much emphasis on upholding family values for good reason: Islam does not encourage a woman (or even a man) to be rebellious for non-Islamic reasons.
- Mangalsutra and Sindoor are Hindu marital customs.
- Extra-marital affair is a grave sin and a punishable offense in Islam. Muslims should be mindful of this fact. People will judge YOU on the lines of how you behave and your words - this is second nature to humans.

- - -

You told a woman to disregard her parents? The village head has no business in deciding her matters though.

Secondly, below is from my thread from 2016 whose OP is an article written by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha and is about Communist and Socialist activism among Muslims since the early 1900s, because it is automatic. The Islamic scholars in India from a 100 years ago found similarities between Islam and modern Communism ( "Modern" because Communism has always been there in various streams ) :

One of the other scholars and activists mentioned in the article is Ubaidullah Sindhi and there is a wonderful thread started by @R2D2 some days ago about Ubaidullah. You should read the OP but I posted my response from which is below a part :


And what is Feminism ? Is it to enable the female to be a human being in her own right, to liberate her and emancipate her, enable rights for her, things that were deprived from her by oppressive family and community structures ? If so then Islam did that 1400 years ago. Below is from a thread of mine from 2015 whose OP is written by a Indian Christian lady marrying an Indian Muslim but under Islamic marriage law because she found it better for securing her socio-economic rights in case of divorce ( the idea of divorce being codified first under Islam ) :

Is this Feminism ? Is it not ? What is it ? Who enabled it ? So 1400 years ago Hazrat Muhammad codified these progressive, rational and just ideas for the female and then in the 1800s the French and the English adopted the Islamic marriage law, at least some of it, and it was being discussed by Hindutvadis who never gave rights to the female since the last 3000 years of the existence of the political, social and socio-economic for Hinduism written in the Manusmriti, and the Hindutvadis didn't acknowledge the Islamic origin of the law they wanted to bring in. Is this Feminism ? Is it not ? But just today a mullah posted some pictorials about how divorce is a sin and a wife who wants a divorce will not smell the aroma of paradise, or something like that. Who taught these people all this rot when the real Islam is opposite to their beliefs and the Indian Christian lady used Islamic law because they gave her rights in case of divorce ?

There can be similarities between Islam and another ideology but Islam is a belief system in itself. This distinction is important.

1. Islam is much older than communism.
2. Communism grants unprecedented power to the state which can be abused as life-history of Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin shows.


Islam does not condone dictatorial and oppressive leadership style. Islam value authority but it instructs people to choose their leader and he should be the best among them. People should be enlightened enough to choose their leader wisely and this enlightenment comes from Islamic teachings and general education. It is important for people to show maturity and achieve consensus on how to choose a man to lead them and Islam can provide the basis for this consensus. If people are split on the lines of which ideology to follow then this will lead to conflict in the society so it is better to pick one.

- - -

I pointed out the difference between Islam and Feminism in following post:


Not difficult to understand.
 

jamahir

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I checked your post - it has valid points

Thank you.

but those women rights also have "rules."
- If a woman is sole child of her parents then she has full claim on her parent's property. If she has siblings then Allah Almighty has pointed out a property division rule among them.
- Husband is supposed to provide for his wife.

Well, you are mostly right there. Below is the Indian legal system's simple derivation of Quranic law regarding the system of property distribution where in our discussion we focus on the female and you will find most of it what you know :
Muslim law recognizes two types of heirs, Sharers and Residuaries. Sharers are the ones who are entitled to a certain share in the deceased’s property and Residuaries would take up the share in the property that is left over after the sharers have taken their part.

Sharers :

The Sharers are 12 in number and are as follows: (1) Husband, (2) Wife, (3) Daughter, (4) Daughter of a son (or son's son or son's son and so on), (5) Father, (6) Paternal Grandfather, (7) Mother, (8) Grandmother on the male line, (9) Full sister (10) Consanguine sister (11) Uterine sister, and (12) Uterine brother.

The share taken by each sharer will vary in certain conditions. For instance, a wife takes 1/4th of share in a case where the couple is without lineal descendants, and a one-eighth share otherwise. A husband (in the case of succession to the wife's estate) takes a half share in a case where the couple is without lineal descendants, and a one-fourth share otherwise. A sole daughter takes a half share. Where the deceased has left behind more than one daughter, all daughters jointly take two-thirds. If the deceased had left behind son(s) and daughter(s), then, the daughters cease to be sharers and become residuaries instead, with the residue being so distributed as to ensure that each son gets double of what each daughter gets.

Non-Testamentary and Testamentary succession under Muslim law :

In Non-testamentary succession, the Muslim Personal Law (Shariat) Application Act, 1937 gets applied. On the other hand, in case of a person who dies testate i.e. 2 one who has created his will before death, the inheritance is governed under the relevant Muslim Shariat Law as applicable to the Shias and the Sunnis.

In cases where the subject matter of property is an immovable property, situated in the state of West Bengal, Chennai and Bombay, the Muslims shall be bound by the Indian Succession Act, 1925. This exception is only for the purposes of testamentary succession.

Birthright :

Inheritance of property in Muslim law comes only after the death of a person, any child born into a Muslim family does not get his right to property on his birth. If an heir lives even after the death of the ancestor, he becomes a legal heir and is therefore entitled to a share in the property. However, if the apparent heir does not survive his ancestor, then no such right of inheritance or share in the property shall exist.

Distribution of the Property :

Under the Muslim law, distribution of property can be made in two ways – per capita or per strip distribution.

The per capita distribution method is majorly used in the Sunni law. According to this method, the estate left over by the ancestors gets equally distributed among the heirs. Therefore, the share of each person depends on the number of heirs.

The per strip distribution method is recognised in the Shia law. According to this method of property inheritance, the property gets distributed among the heirs according to the strip they belong to. Hence the quantum of their inheritance also depends upon the branch and the number of persons that belong to the branch.

Rights of females :

Muslim does not create any distinction between the rights of men and women. On the death of their ancestor, nothing can prevent both girl and boy child to become the legal heirs of inheritable property. However, it is generally found that the quantum of the share of a female heir is half of that of the male heirs. The reason 3 behind this is that under the Muslim law a female shall upon marriage receive mehr and maintenance from her husband whereas males will have only the property of the ancestors for inheritance. Also, males have the duty of maintaining their wife and children.

Widow’s right to succession :

Under Muslim law, no widow is excluded from the succession. A childless Muslim widow is entitled to one-fourth of the property of the deceased husband, after meeting his funeral and legal expenses and debts. However, a widow who has children or grandchildren is entitled to one-eighth of the deceased husband's property. If a Muslim man marries during an illness and subsequently dies of that medical condition without brief recovery or consummating the marriage, his widow has no right of inheritance. But if her ailing husband divorces her and afterwards, he dies from that illness, the widow's right to a share of inheritance continues until she remarries.

A Child in the Womb :

A child in the womb of its mother is competent to inherit provided it is born alive. A child in the embryo is regarded as a living person and, as such, the property vests immediately in that child. But, if such a child in the womb is not born alive, the share already vested in it is divested and, it is presumed as if there was no such heir (in the womb) at all.

Escheat : Where a deceased Muslim has no legal heir under Muslim law, his properties are inherited by Government through the process of escheat.
Most is self-explanatory but I want to point out two things about the "Sharers" :

1. It includes the husband too which means the deceased wife could have estate and money from : (a). Ancestral source, (b). Self-acquired through business.

2. It includes inheritors being sisters of three types which then leads to conclude that the especially desi Muslim culture of brothers preventing the sisters from being with who they want does not find sanction in Islam but is just a pre-Islamic leftover.

1. Islam is much older than communism.

No, that statement cannot be concluded like that. :) Islam which is a highly progressive and rational bunch of ideas itself had codifications of at least one or two previous questions. For example Hazrat Isa talking against the usurious money lenders and that leading into Islam abolishing interest-based economics 600 years later. About Communism, you will notice that many times when I refer to Marxian thought and what came later I call that as "Modern Communism". This because the idea of Communism has always existed in various philosophies and conduct in far far history of humankind much before codified Islam but not combined and condensed. I quote this Wikipedia page :

Origins of communism​

Communism in antiquity​

Further information: Pre-Marxist communism, Primitive communism, and Religious communism

The 1st century BC Roman philosopher Seneca believed that humans had fallen from a Golden Age of primitive communism[8]

Many historical groups have been considered as following forms of communism. Karl Marx and other early communist theorists believed that hunter-gatherer societies as were found in the Paleolithic through to horticultural societies as found in the Chalcolithic were essentially egalitarian and he, therefore, termed their ideology to be primitive communism.[9] One of the first writers to espouse a belief in the primitive communism of the past was the Roman Stoic philosopher Seneca who stated," How happy was the primitive age when the bounties of nature lay in common...They held all nature in common which gave them secure possession of the public wealth."[10] Because of this he believed that such primitive societies were the richest as there was no poverty.[10] Other Greco-Roman writers that believed in a prehistoric humanity that practiced communism include Diodorus Siculus, Virgil, and Ovid.[11] Similarly the early Church Fathers, like their pagan predecessors, maintained that humans society had declined to its current state from a now lost egalitarian social order.[12]

Around the late 5th century BC in Ancient Greece, ideas similar to communism were becoming widespread to the extent that they were parodied by the dramatist Aristophanes in his comedy The Assemblywomen in which the women of Athens seize control of the Ecclesia or city government and abolish all private property while making the sharing of women and the collective rearing of children mandatory.[13] Over a decade later in Plato's Republic Socrates declares that an ideal state would eliminate all forms of private property among the elite of society to the extent that even children and wives are shared.[14][15] He asserts that such practices would prevent internal conflict within a society and promote a sense of unity and common identity.[16] Around AD 500 in Iran, the Zoroastrian priest and reformist Mazdak purportedly founded a movement preaching religious communism while under the patronage of the Sassanian King Kavad I who initially supported the priest and his reforms, but later had the Mazdakians repressed and Mazdak executed.
So, at various times - abolition of private property or no existence of private property; combined societal property being held as Commons; absence of money; considering the combined societal possessions as a public wealth to be used for the benefit for all; egalitarianism... these are what comprise some of the desires of Modern Communism :
Communism (from Latin communis, 'common, universal') is a far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology and current within the socialist movement whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange which allocates products to everyone in the society. Communist society also involves the absence of private property, social classes, money, and the state. Communists often seek a voluntary state of self-governance, but disagree on the means to this end. This reflects a distinction between a more libertarian approach of communization, revolutionary spontaneity, and workers' self-management, and a more vanguardist or communist party-driven approach through the development of a constitutional socialist state followed by the withering away of the state.

2. Communism grants unprecedented power to the state which can be abused as life-history of Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin shows.

Islam does not condone dictatorial and oppressive leadership style. Islam value authority but it instructs people to choose their leader and he should be the best among them. People should be enlightened enough to choose their leader wisely and this enlightenment comes from Islamic teachings and general education. It is important for people to show maturity and achieve consensus on how to choose a man to lead them and Islam can provide the basis for this consensus. If people are split on the lines of which ideology to follow then this will lead to conflict in the society so it is better to pick one.

You are right, there should be no dictatorial and oppressive style of governance and though one or two example of such rules in Communist societies can be presented, one of the ideas of Communism is to realize people's rule aka self-governance aka participatory democracy like was in far far history before tribalisms and religions formed and led to nations and empires being created - essentially creation of the State. Neither a dictator should exist nor should someone appointed by the people. In my quote above "Modern Communism" the last few words are "followed by withering away of the state" which essentially means an eventual situation in society where there is no superboss governmental structure that takes decisions even without the consent of the citizens but instead means the people participating in the running of the society directly i.e. participatory democracy or direct democracy. The people are the governance system. No president, no prime minister, no chief minister, governors, deputy chief ministers etc. The people form themselves into congresses and committees throughout the society and collaborate within neighborhoods and within cities and trans-cities and govern the entire society with their direct discussions, idea generations and decisions. I quote the Wikipedia page for "Withering away of the State" :
Withering away of the state is a Marxist concept coined by Friedrich Engels referring to the idea that, with the realization of socialism, the state will eventually become obsolete and cease to exist as society will be able to govern itself without the state and its coercive enforcement of the law.

Origin of the phrase​

The phrase stems from Friedrich Engels,[1] who wrote in part 3, chapter 2 of Anti-Dühring (1878):

The interference of the state power in social relations becomes superfluous in one sphere after another, and then ceases of itself. The government of persons is replaced by the administration of things and the direction of the processes of production. The state is not "abolished", it withers away. (German: Der Staat wird nicht „abgeschafft“, er stirbt ab., lit. 'The state is not "abolished", it atrophies.')[2]
A related quote from Engels comes from Origins of the Family, Private Property, and the State (1884):
The society which organizes production anew on the basis of free and equal association of the producers will put the whole state machinery where it will then belong—into the museum of antiquities, next to the spinning wheel and the bronze ax.
I will paste link of my thread on this topic - state-less direct and participatory democracy by the citizens - and this is a thread you yourself had kindly separated from another and gave it form of a new one. The discussion here includes my posts talking about the Greek concept of Demokratia ( which gives the English word Democracy ) and then how it was in the Libyan Jamahiriya where participatory democracy was realized thus fulfilling the "Withering away of the State" part of Communism :


The article is posted on an American-government-funded agency :
Established in 1993, CES is one of only five in the nation to be designated as both a National Resource Center by the US Department of Education and a Jean Monnet Center of Excellence by the European Union. CES is consistently recognized among the top centers for European studies in the country for its innovative programming.
Can the American government which genocided millions since the end of World War 2 in propagating the cause of money and priesthood be acceptable to talk about the gentleness and thoughtfulness of Communism as described above ? :) I and others on the forum have written about the money-based oppressions within USA itself maintained by the same American government that wrote this anti-Communism article. Americans are now having to sell blood to buy bread.

Rest of your post, allow me to reply over days. :)
 
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jamahir

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I wrote just above :
I and others on the forum have written about the money-based oppressions within USA itself maintained by the same American government that wrote this anti-Communism article. Americans are now having to sell blood to buy bread.
And @Areesh did a Ha Ha to the post. He should be taken to the blood banks in USA where Americans are selling blood / plasma and he asked right there to laugh at those people. And report back here his experience.
 

jamahir

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shut up misogynist pedofile malnourished virgin

OK, PDF now has a situation. There is an outbreak of a new virus on PDF called Mujahid Memon that has combined the virulent strains of @Areesh, @-=virus=- and @langda khan. This new virus was developed in Lal Masjid HiTech Laboratories under the supervision of the American military attache. The new virus mysteriously is attracted to ghey humans. :rofl:
 

langda khan

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OK, PDF now has a situation. There is an outbreak of a new virus on PDF called Mujahid Memon that has combined the virulent strains of @Areesh, @-=virus=- and @langda khan. This new virus was developed in Lal Masjid HiTech Laboratories under the supervision of the American military attache. :rofl:

Snaan time Limca time
Tasty time Limca time
Fun time Limca time
Lime n lemoni Limca
Limca Limcaaaaa
 

Mujahid Memon

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OK, PDF now has a situation. There is an outbreak of a new virus on PDF called Mujahid Memon that has combined the virulent strains of @Areesh, @-=virus=- and @langda khan. This new virus was developed in Lal Masjid HiTech Laboratories under the supervision of the American military attache. The new virus mysteriously is attracted to ghey humans. :rofl:
Shut up misogynist
 

Areesh

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OK, PDF now has a situation. There is an outbreak of a new virus on PDF called Mujahid Memon that has combined the virulent strains of @Areesh, @-=virus=- and @langda khan. This new virus was developed in Lal Masjid HiTech Laboratories under the supervision of the American military attache. The new virus mysteriously is attracted to ghey humans. :rofl:

Shut up pervert
 

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