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Sun Tzu Doctrine for Asia

Sasquatch

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Asian EU will never happen due to the poverty and population of Asia. Pan Asianism is a failure, no country wants to follow a single country.
 

Sasquatch

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kalu you put plenty of work in this, while this seems great on paper this idea will never materialize.
 

illusion8

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The problem with this doctrine is China sucks as a leader - look at the state of their allies - North Korea, Pakistan - the country where they have maximum influence - Burma.

HK recently joined the PRC and already there are voices of dissent.
China's population is a docile one - the whole power lies with the one party the CCP - which is the be all of China.

Whole of Asia under the leadership of China literally means whole of Asia under the CCP - who again suck at Geo politics - they are at war or in enmity with practically all their neighbors and many others.

Whoever's come up with this crazy idea needs to wipe off his brown nose.
 

anon45

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- just like EU is integrating under European Union, there may not be a proposed Asian Union as a distinct entity, but Asian nations must work together to integrate the regions, so borders are as irrelevant as possible and people, goods and services can move freely, although migration must be strictly under control


I would like to note that arguably a A large part of Western Europe's unity came from the shadow of a common threat, the Soviet Union. There is no similar entity in Asia today that is considered a common threat to all Asian countries, and the closest analogue is China.

The situation in Asia actually bears a closer resemblance to pre WW1 Europe than post WW2 or post cold war Europe. (uncomfortably so) I don't see this sort of political union happening, there is no uniting threat.


:edit: Just as a note kalu miah, what countries in the Asian region you have defined do you believe will accept this proposal immediately? If possible, answer why?

Also could you flesh out what you mean by saying this doctrine will give China cause to give the opposite of 'rewards and working together' to countries that don't join, and how that is supposed to give them incentive to join?
 

Viet

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Asian EU will never happen due to the poverty and population of Asia. Pan Asianism is a failure, no country wants to follow a single country.



I agree in parts. I don´t think poverty and population decide over a cooperation or even union. I see two major blocs can be established:

ASEAN+3 (China, Japan, S. Korea)
INDIA+ (other south asian nations)

The first works well, and cooperations can be deepened. The second bloc may be worth thinking. I am not sure about the idea of a permanent leadership of a bloc, rotating chairman is a good option.
 
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I agree in parts. I don´t think poverty and population decide over a cooperation or even union. I see two major blocs can be established:

ASEAN+3 (China, Japan, S. Korea)
INDIA+ (other south asian nations)

The first works well, and cooperations can be deepened. The second bloc may be worth thinking. I am not sure about the idea of a a permanent leadership of a bloc, rotating chairman is a good option.

ASEAN+3 is not China leader.

In fact, the meetings organized by ASEAN (ASEAN Sumit, East Asia Sumit, Asia–Europe Meeting -ASEM, ARF,...) ASEAN at the center of these meetings.
 

Viet

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ASEAN+3 is not China leader.

In fact, the meetings organized by ASEAN (ASEAN Sumit, East Asia Sumit, Asia–Europe Meeting -ASEM, ARF,...) ASEAN at the center of these meetings.


Right, when it comes to a ASEAN+3 summit, we may have a rotating chairman ASEAN, China, Japan and S. Korea. That´s fair.
 

ebr77

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On another note, if kalu bhai's vision for all of us to work together works, think of the positive effects.
 

Srinivas

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It seems Kalumiah is obsessed with Chinese culture and want to spread it to entire Asia through sun tzu :coffee:
 

kalu_miah

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cross posted:

It is good to see some Indonesians active here, so we can finally have some POV from Indonesian perspective. I wish we could see some Japanese and "authentic" Korean voices as well.

As many posters may recall from previous discussions, I beg to differ that ASEAN should be wary of getting involved with these regional issues. In my opinion, both Japan and Indonesia are missing the opportunity to forge a closer tie using these conflicts as opportunities.

The spoiler in this region is the outside balancer, the US. The goal of all Asians should be to eventually oust the outsider including all its bases. For that to happen, we need balance and that balance can only be achieved if Japan and South Korea formally joins ASEAN (creating ASEAN+2) with a green signal from China, with the understanding that if and when this ASEAN+2 is a viable security guarantee for both Japan and South Korea, then US bases from both Japan and Korea will be asked to move out.

China is not in a position to create a unified ASEAN+3, that simply does not sound feasible. It will not be good for China, nor will it be good or acceptable for the rest. China has bigger fishes to fry and bigger problems to worry about. ASEAN+2, with China's blessing would be of greatest benefit for the peace, stability and development of the region.

For Asia, China is obviously becoming the leading nation. Asian landmass can be roughly cut into 4 regions with a cross. There is China sitting in Northeast (quadrant I) and India sitting in Southwest (quadrant III). These two regions are already integrated into 2 nation states. The challenge for China and all of Asia is to avoid conflicts breaking out between these 4 corners/quadrants, within the 2 divided corners (quadrants II and IV) and also to integrate the divided corners:

example-2.gif


The North West: Russia, Central Asia and Middle-East (quadrant II)
The South East: ASEAN+2 and few other countries (quadrant IV)

I believe it is time for Japan and Indonesia to make some bold moves and take the lead, then other middle tier countries like South Korea, Vietnam and Philippines will follow. If the current crop of leadership in China do not understand their long term benefit from these regional moves, I believe the future generation leadership will.
 

sindhibrah

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While I agree with pan-Asianism, one country leading the continent will have obvious opposition and this will inevitably fail. It would need to be a collective process.
 

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