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Struggling to find a person in Kashmir who sides with India today - Indian reporter

masterchief_mirza

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I think you might be mistaken if you think the people of Jammu or even the non-Muslims are happy about the removal of 370 or why wouldn’t you find them rejoicing on the streets? The truth is even the Hindus of Jammu are worried about any possible influx to their areas and their culture being displaced as it has been threatened.

That is the mistake some Pakistani posters keep making - this shouldn’t be a religious but a Kashmir cultural issue, I have interacted with true Kashmiri Hindus and even they are not enthusiastic about the possible demographic changes afoot there.
Anupam Kher and all those Pandits disagree with you.
 

Ritual

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Anupam Kher and all those Pandits disagree with you.
I don’t think the ones who live there are celebrating as much as Indians are led to believe. Anupam Kher and other loudmouths are people who have not lived in Kashmir for years, the locals in Jammu would have been on parades in TV if they really were happy. The native Kashmiri Hindus are also worried about being displaced by an influx of cow belt Indian migrants
 

war&peace

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Reality is different...You will never find any good number of people who are proud to be Indian on ground on valley except few people who are part of BJP in Kashmir...So basically Indian calculation is simple...We are anybway in deep shit in valley, and by removing these article...There is nothing more worse thing to loose here...Rather they will make Jammu and Ladakh integrated to mainstream..

Kashmir valley was with Pakistan...It is just like they are thinkinh of being independent or go to Pakistan...
Good and Indian cannot be and should never be used together in the same sentence.. These are two mutually exclusive words.
 

masterchief_mirza

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I don’t think the ones who live there are celebrating as much as Indians are led to believe. Anupam Kher and other loudmouths are people who have not lived in Kashmir for years, the locals in Jammu would have been on parades in TV if they really were happy. The native Kashmiri Hindus are also worried about being displaced by an influx of cow belt Indian migrants
I think you're right to a small extent. We saw how Hindu mobs in Assam rioted at the thought of Hindu migrants coming into their land because of Modi's migrant bill.

If anything, that episode just highlights how Modi, Shah and the rest of this Hindutva mafia think. Hindus protested against a legislation that would allow other Hindus to come into their land, take their jobs, resources, business opportunities etc and Modi listened to them and dropped the bill. In principle, this is similar to what Kashmiris complain and riot about with regards to non Kashmiris coming into Kashmir. But of course Modi can never shelve such legislation because the complainants are muslims and the potential beneficiaries of Kashmir's looting will be Hindus. Sick.

I know it is slightly different because the Assam bill was about completely foreign non-assamese migrants while the new Kashmir legislation is about domestic non-Kashmiri migrants....but the point I am making is independent of that difference and the underlying problem is not whether the migrants are foreign or domestic but that they are not wanted by local population to overrun them. Modi listened when Hindus complained about being overrun by other Hindus and placated them by scrapping a political plan that would have allowed such influx of people. Against the Muslims of Kashmir though the agenda is different. It is not about placating them. Indeed it is the opposite. Modi wants them replaced by Hindus.
 

Ritual

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I think you're right to a small extent. We saw how Hindu mobs in Assam rioted at the thought of Hindu migrants coming into their land because of Modi's migrant bill.

If anything, that episode just highlights how Modi, Shah and the rest of this Hindutva mafia think. Hindus protested against a legislation that would allow other Hindus to come into their land, take their jobs, resources, business opportunities etc and Modi listened to them and dropped the bill. In principle, this is similar to what Kashmiris complain and riot about with regards to non Kashmiris coming into Kashmir. But of course Modi can never shelve such legislation because the complainants are muslims and the potential beneficiaries of Kashmir's looting will be Hindus. Sick.

I know it is slightly different because the Assam bill was about completely foreign non-assamese migrants while the new Kashmir legislation is about domestic non-Kashmiri migrants....but the point I am making is independent of that difference and the underlying problem is not whether the migrants are foreign or domestic but that they are not wanted by local population to overrun them. Modi listened when Hindus complained about being overrun by other Hindus and placated them by scrapping a political plan that would have allowed such influx of people. Against the Muslims of Kashmir though the agenda is different. It is not about placating them. Indeed it is the opposite. Modi wants them replaced by Hindus.
That is why I think the Pakistan push should not be for Muslim Kashmiris only but for all the people of Jammu & Kashmir. Pakistan should promise to fight for their autonomy & independence, not neccesarily that it will integrate them into Pakistan.

I am sure having read and interacted with some of them, the Hindus of Kashmir are certainly not culturally the same as the cow belt, they will be worried about their culture and land literally being sold off and crowded out in the coming years.
 

Kaniska

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That is why I think the Pakistan push should not be for Muslim Kashmiris only but for all the people of Jammu & Kashmir. Pakistan should promise to fight for their autonomy & independence, not neccesarily that it will integrate them into Pakistan.

I am sure having read and interacted with some of them, the Hindus of Kashmir are certainly not culturally the same as the cow belt, they will be worried about their culture and land literally being sold off and crowded out in the coming years.
Exactly...If Pakistan could have made the Kashmir as a political struggle than the religious one, you could have got better return on your investment
 

Meengla

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Exactly...If Pakistan could have made the Kashmir as a political struggle than the religious one, you could have got better return on your investment
Nah. It's a figleaf to say 'political' vs 'religious'.
Everything ALWAYS boils down to materialism. Marx was right in mid 19th century and Marx is right now about most things. What you are saying will never work in modern India: A 'non violent' protest by the Kashmiris. This myth has been propagated by the Israelis and their apologists about the Palestinians: Do the 'Gandhian' non-violent and you'd get your Rights. Never. At most the Palestinians would get some reprieve from the roadblocks as they polish the shoes of the imported 'Israelis' from Russia.

Utter BS. Turning 'the other cheek' or 'eye for an eye making world blind' BS.

Kashmir WAS a political struggle and IS political struggle. Religions just camouflage the reality.
 

masterchief_mirza

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That is why I think the Pakistan push should not be for Muslim Kashmiris only but for all the people of Jammu & Kashmir. Pakistan should promise to fight for their autonomy & independence, not neccesarily that it will integrate them into Pakistan.

I am sure having read and interacted with some of them, the Hindus of Kashmir are certainly not culturally the same as the cow belt, they will be worried about their culture and land literally being sold off and crowded out in the coming years.
You're assuming the non Muslims of j and k haven't bought into the anti Muslim propaganda from Modi. I don't think your plan would have worked for that reason - they see Muslims as an enemy.
 
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In my mind, there's no doubt that BJP is getting inspiration, if not guidance , from the Israelis about how to gobble up the land inhabitated by millions of estranged locals. Netanyahu is soon going to India., btw.

And in great anger I want to BITCHSLAP those Pakistanis here who were calling to normalize relations with Israel when there are no tangible benefits to be had, let alone losing Pakistan's moral position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict--a position which has widespread support even in the West.

Pakistan is not in a position to gain anything by being in bed with Israel. India has deeper pockets, deeper clout in Washington DC, and Israelis would never trust Pakistan anyway.

That India has been adopting the jargon of the Israelis is mentioned by a person of no less stature than Robert Fisk and now, the events of last few days, many more are drawing the parallels between the two fascist regimes.

Indian Hindus see in Israel the revival of the language and the culture that India lost. There are parallels between the revival of Yiddish/Hebrew and Sanskrit, as between the demolition of the Babri Mosque and the thought of demolishing the Al Quds, as between the Bantustanization of W. Bank and Kashmir. These are the deep ideological underpinning of the BJP led India and the Israelis are the inspiration!!!
Israel is 100% involved. This has undoubtedly Israel written all over it. Israel is the architect of the latest move by India.

Israel is a scum nation that always feels insecure about Pakistan. Hence it feels obliged to prop up Rapistan India against Pakistan.

I think we should seriously consider a counter strategy against Israhell. This has been ongoing for a very long time now.
 

SecularNationalist

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And today UN went against India decision and invoked the Shimla agreement.
A big slap to all indians who call this a internal matter of india.You just cannot control things by force and the upcoming time will tell you.
 

TMA

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And today UN went against India decision and invoked the Shimla agreement.
A big slap to all indians who call this a internal matter of india.You just cannot control things by force and the upcoming time will tell you.
Shimla agreement calls for a bilateral solution as far as my understanding goes. ..
 

Meengla

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Shimla agreement calls for a bilateral solution as far as my understanding goes. ..
Shimla Agreement works for India because it, according to the Indian interpretations, excludes outside influence. Pakistan would have never signed the Shimla Agreement had there not been the need to bring up the POWs from India after the 1971 war. But it was not exactly a Versailles Treaty like humiliation for Pakistan. The language, while favors India, is still not completely against Pakistan's interpretation. I think India had screwed up the chance to impose a harsher language then. I have to admit that Ms. Gandhi was generous to Mr. Bhutto then or he outfoxed her.

But... we are now back to 1947/48: No agreement is valid anymore because of what India has just done. I don't think Pakistan should wish for the status-quo, which had benefited India. I have no doubt that the high-handed way of Indian dealing in last few days has damaged India's case. There are many even in India who don't favor the latest move. India is walking on thin ice.

India did something on 26 Feb. 2019. Pakistan responded on 27 Feb. 2019. The ball is in Pakistan's court to respond again...
 

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