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Strategic restraint or loss of capabilities?

Pak Nationalist

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First, the Chinese embassy was attacked, we did nothing. Some have postulated that Galwan might have been payback for that, regardless, the attack was conducted on our land by Indian proxies and WE did nothing. Then came an attack on PSX soon after the Shanghai stock exchange had bought a 40% stake signaling greater interest in the Pakistani economy, by the same proxies, we did nothing despite the fact that the heart of the Pakistani financial sector was targeted in broad daylight. Then the Chinese ambassador himself had a narrow escape when the Quetta Serena hotel bomb attempt failed.TTP claimed the responsibility. One might ask what beef TTP has with the Chinese, unlike the Baloch secessionist militants. This clearly shows from where TTP took its instructions to orchestrate this attack. And sticking to the pattern, we did nothing. Now the most strategic project (Dasu) that is vital for our water, food, and energy security was brazenly attacked by the same hostile element and if history is the guide here, we would not do anything. Yesterday, two Chinese engineers were injured in a gun attack in Karachi and the responsibility for it was claimed by the Indian proxy again. Few questions arise from these happenings and our continued inability to either thwart enemy designs to drive a wedge between Pakistan and her most steadfast ally OR hitting back in the sub-conventional space as a deterrent.

1. Are we practicing strategic restrain until we rid ourselves of FATF greylist or a favorable end to Afghan conflict? It must be noted that today we have come to a juncture where the Indian side is not even hiding its machinations and Jaishankar gets to openly boast about keeping us on the greylist. Furthermore, is there even a favorable outcome for us to the Afghan conflict? Afghan Taliban are the least trustworthy actors out there. The CNN interview of TTP amir drops hints about operational independence TTP foresees for itself once TTA sweeps across Afghanistan.

2. Why is our intelligence network unable to bust these networks before they do the damage? If Indian intelligence institutions are able to dismantle the modules in Kashmir and elsewhere in India, why are we unable to replicate what we did during the Raheel Shareef era?

3. Why are we not hitting back? Have we lost the capability to do so due to LoC's anti-infiltration grid or the growing capacity of the Indian state to manage its borders and secure the hinterland?

Looking forward to your views on these points and an informed discussion.
 
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Silverblaze

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An already weak state has become increasingly weaker and it has happened over the years.

A weak leadership has been unable to reform the state bureaucracy that is why u see a sharp decline in national power from sports to economy to law and order.

fact is the country was run on adhocism by both civil and military rulers and no real structure has gained any form. Till today we are talking of presidential form of govt and other options but doing nothing.

unless internal muscle is strengthened, state cannot project power abroad. but we dont see a solid will as of now.
 

Moon

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First, the Chinese embassy was attacked, we did nothing. Some have postulated that Galwan might have been payback for that, regardless, the attack was conducted on our land by Indian proxies and WE did nothing. Then came an attack on PSX soon after the Shanghai stock exchange had bought a 40% stake signaling greater interest in the Pakistani economy by the same proxies, we did nothing despite the fact that the heart of the Pakistani financial sector was targeted in broad daylight. Now the most strategic project (Dasu) that is vital for our water, food, and energy security was brazenly attacked by the same hostile element and if history is the guide here, we would not do anything. Yesterday, two Chinese engineers were injured in a gun attack in Karachi and the responsibility for it was claimed by the Indian proxy again. Few questions arise from these happenings and our continued inability to either thwart enemy designs to drive a wedge between Pakistan and her most steadfast ally OR hitting back in the sub-conventional space as a deterrent.

1. Are we practicing strategic restrain until we rid ourselves of FATF greylist or a favorable end to Afghan conflict? It must be noted that today we have come to a juncture where the Indian side is not even hiding its machinations and Jaishankar gets to openly boast about keeping us on the greylist. Furthermore, is there even a favorable outcome for us to the Afghan conflict? Afghan Taliban are the least trustworthy actors out there. The CNN interview of TTP amir drops hints about operational independence TTP foresees for itself once TTA sweeps across Afghanistan.

2. Why is our intelligence network unable to bust these networks before they do the damage? If Indian intelligence institutions are able to dismantle the modules in Kashmir and elsewhere in India, why are we unable to replicate what we did during the Raheel Shareef era?

3. Why are we not hitting back? Have we lost the capability to do so due to LoC's anti-infiltration grid or the growing capacity of the Indian state to manage its borders and secure the hinterland?

Looking forward to your views on these points and an informed discussion.
I think sadly, it's the loss of capabilities. After international pressure was exerted on Pakistan and it's leadership, we were forced to demolish these capabilities, in exchange for either few benefits or nothing at all.

Secondly, Pakistan has lost much of it's clout in Afghanistan's social circles, these people were either killed off by the Kabul regime or NATO or simply switched sides (Hekmatyar, Ghani, Saleh, all of them had Pakistan as their benefactor at one point or another.)

Third, whatever "goodwill" if you call it that, we had with Islamists (our traditional to-go people in Afg) is effectively finished after Musharraf (rightfully or not) went after them post 9/11.

Fourth, as far as internal security goes, we've spent very little in developing security infrastructure as compared to money spent on things like frigates , tanks or jets. 2 decades of violence in Karachi and we haven't taken an initiative to make peace sustainable in the city. Neither have newer, disruptive technologies been applied in crime busting or counterterrorism.

Lastly, we've failed to create a narrative which would justify such actions, overtly or covertly. Pakistani "intelligentsia" by large support actions of terrorists wether they be TTP of BRAS groups.
 

alee92nawaz

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First, the Chinese embassy was attacked, we did nothing. Some have postulated that Galwan might have been payback for that, regardless, the attack was conducted on our land by Indian proxies and WE did nothing. Then came an attack on PSX soon after the Shanghai stock exchange had bought a 40% stake signaling greater interest in the Pakistani economy by the same proxies, we did nothing despite the fact that the heart of the Pakistani financial sector was targeted in broad daylight. Now the most strategic project (Dasu) that is vital for our water, food, and energy security was brazenly attacked by the same hostile element and if history is the guide here, we would not do anything. Yesterday, two Chinese engineers were injured in a gun attack in Karachi and the responsibility for it was claimed by the Indian proxy again. Few questions arise from these happenings and our continued inability to either thwart enemy designs to drive a wedge between Pakistan and her most steadfast ally OR hitting back in the sub-conventional space as a deterrent.

1. Are we practicing strategic restrain until we rid ourselves of FATF greylist or a favorable end to Afghan conflict? It must be noted that today we have come to a juncture where the Indian side is not even hiding its machinations and Jaishankar gets to openly boast about keeping us on the greylist. Furthermore, is there even a favorable outcome for us to the Afghan conflict? Afghan Taliban are the least trustworthy actors out there. The CNN interview of TTP amir drops hints about operational independence TTP foresees for itself once TTA sweeps across Afghanistan.

2. Why is our intelligence network unable to bust these networks before they do the damage? If Indian intelligence institutions are able to dismantle the modules in Kashmir and elsewhere in India, why are we unable to replicate what we did during the Raheel Shareef era?

3. Why are we not hitting back? Have we lost the capability to do so due to LoC's anti-infiltration grid or the growing capacity of the Indian state to manage its borders and secure the hinterland?

Looking forward to your views on these points and an informed discussion.
Loss of capability because of the focus on internal politics more than the actual job.
 

Village life

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During cold war era India was Russian ally and we were American poodles and Americans portrayed us very capable and intelligent nation with capable and intelligent intelligence agencies and as a nation we were happy that we are doing a lot for the kashmiris and taking care India well but indeed we were taking care of American interest, now India is a American Ally and is taking care of American interests very well and we just doing chest thumping that we are this and we are that,we over exaggerated our capacities and lived in self appeasing praising delusional world, since the Americans have sided now India and our incapacity and preparedness for the hybrid warfare is badly exposed , we are the nation that on institutional level harboured and groomed traitors, to the core corrupts, drug addicts and foreign assets on our own looted wealth and then imposed them on ourself to role us , now system is collapsing and not delivering but we are still living in a denial mode because aur policy makers and decision makers have no clue what to do and they don't have linkes to the public at Grass root level, general public is living in a miserable condition deprived of basic necessities and justice thus creating caos and distrust of public on the institutions, common people feels irrelevant all policies are made behind closed doors, situation could be very volatile if a single incidence of major sabotage happens inside Pakistan, we are in a era in which USSR was before it's collapse , Har shakh py ulu baitha hy , blky ab tu do do teen teen char char ulu baithy hain, India already won the hybrid ward without any difficulty when we deliberately knowingly groomed corrupt elements in every institution and then made them stake holders and decision makers in our system leading to nearly bank corrupt economically weak nation which as result give enemies a open place to hire terrorists and impose their agenda on us, coming to the main question why we don't response to indain terrorism? the answer is simple we don't have power don't have economic power don't have balls don't have leverage rendered by USA and Europe during cold war era because India is now their strategic partner and china don't trust us "as they said we change our policies on a single phone call they said it openly and loudly,,
 

Vapnope

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I don't think there is an issue of capability or even the resources as we have witnessed that we were able to tackle the much bigger threat of TTP. However the problem lies in the vision of the top brass and subsequent policies in that regard. There is an increased need to delink Afghanistan to our response for asymmetrical response. Anyone invoking strategic patience at this point is bluffing because everything can be responded in the same token without escalating the war ladder.

In coming days, the efficiency of Police and associated organizations will be put to test because sleeper cells are going to get active.
 

El Sidd

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Much has to do with the great polar shift to geo economics.

1. Are we practicing strategic restrain until we rid ourselves of FATF greylist or a favorable end to Afghan conflict?
FATF and Afghan conflict are both beyond Pakistan's control to base any policy on it.

2. Why is our intelligence network unable to bust these networks before they do the damage?
The sleeper cells are the hardest nut to crack in the business.
3. Why are we not hitting back? Have we lost the capability to do so due to LoC's anti-infiltration grid or the growing capacity of the Indian state to manage its borders and secure the hinterland?
There is no political will to engage India militarily.
Loss of capability because of the focus on internal politics more than the actual job.
Army is a tool. It gets sharpened by every use.

The military has seen most terrain in a modern war. They have a taste for it.

Contrary to popular beliefs of martial races, Pakistanis are peaceful people.
 

Zarvan

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First, the Chinese embassy was attacked, we did nothing. Some have postulated that Galwan might have been payback for that, regardless, the attack was conducted on our land by Indian proxies and WE did nothing. Then came an attack on PSX soon after the Shanghai stock exchange had bought a 40% stake signaling greater interest in the Pakistani economy by the same proxies, we did nothing despite the fact that the heart of the Pakistani financial sector was targeted in broad daylight. Now the most strategic project (Dasu) that is vital for our water, food, and energy security was brazenly attacked by the same hostile element and if history is the guide here, we would not do anything. Yesterday, two Chinese engineers were injured in a gun attack in Karachi and the responsibility for it was claimed by the Indian proxy again. Few questions arise from these happenings and our continued inability to either thwart enemy designs to drive a wedge between Pakistan and her most steadfast ally OR hitting back in the sub-conventional space as a deterrent.

1. Are we practicing strategic restrain until we rid ourselves of FATF greylist or a favorable end to Afghan conflict? It must be noted that today we have come to a juncture where the Indian side is not even hiding its machinations and Jaishankar gets to openly boast about keeping us on the greylist. Furthermore, is there even a favorable outcome for us to the Afghan conflict? Afghan Taliban are the least trustworthy actors out there. The CNN interview of TTP amir drops hints about operational independence TTP foresees for itself once TTA sweeps across Afghanistan.

2. Why is our intelligence network unable to bust these networks before they do the damage? If Indian intelligence institutions are able to dismantle the modules in Kashmir and elsewhere in India, why are we unable to replicate what we did during the Raheel Shareef era?

3. Why are we not hitting back? Have we lost the capability to do so due to LoC's anti-infiltration grid or the growing capacity of the Indian state to manage its borders and secure the hinterland?

Looking forward to your views on these points and an informed discussion.
Pakistan is waiting for China to end CPEC. Our policies are making sure that soon China says bye bye to CPEC. Our cowardly policy is only going to make sure we bleed more. We need to strike back.
 

Jawad-Ali-Khan

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First, the Chinese embassy was attacked, we did nothing. Some have postulated that Galwan might have been payback for that, regardless, the attack was conducted on our land by Indian proxies and WE did nothing. Then came an attack on PSX soon after the Shanghai stock exchange had bought a 40% stake signaling greater interest in the Pakistani economy by the same proxies, we did nothing despite the fact that the heart of the Pakistani financial sector was targeted in broad daylight. Now the most strategic project (Dasu) that is vital for our water, food, and energy security was brazenly attacked by the same hostile element and if history is the guide here, we would not do anything. Yesterday, two Chinese engineers were injured in a gun attack in Karachi and the responsibility for it was claimed by the Indian proxy again. Few questions arise from these happenings and our continued inability to either thwart enemy designs to drive a wedge between Pakistan and her most steadfast ally OR hitting back in the sub-conventional space as a deterrent.

1. Are we practicing strategic restrain until we rid ourselves of FATF greylist or a favorable end to Afghan conflict? It must be noted that today we have come to a juncture where the Indian side is not even hiding its machinations and Jaishankar gets to openly boast about keeping us on the greylist. Furthermore, is there even a favorable outcome for us to the Afghan conflict? Afghan Taliban are the least trustworthy actors out there. The CNN interview of TTP amir drops hints about operational independence TTP foresees for itself once TTA sweeps across Afghanistan.

2. Why is our intelligence network unable to bust these networks before they do the damage? If Indian intelligence institutions are able to dismantle the modules in Kashmir and elsewhere in India, why are we unable to replicate what we did during the Raheel Shareef era?

3. Why are we not hitting back? Have we lost the capability to do so due to LoC's anti-infiltration grid or the growing capacity of the Indian state to manage its borders and secure the hinterland?

Looking forward to your views on these points and an informed discussion.
I see pragmatic pacifism responsible for our current state.
 

Areesh

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If a rat pokes a lion regularly, lion may take notice someday and put the rat in place. Rat may want to get back, dream to take revenge....but Rat will remain a Rat and Lion will be lion.
We are not discussing India in Ladakh against China. Thread is about various threats Pakistan is facing and its poor response against them

I don't why you needed to bring in famous lynching of Galwan valley in this thread
 

PakFactor

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If a rat pokes a lion regularly, lion may take notice someday and put the rat in place. Rat may want to get back, dream to take revenge....but Rat will remain a Rat and Lion will be lion.

Pakistanis needs to remember its size. PDF janta needs to remember that MAD is not for people in power , who has all the luxury to themself.


Just stop meddling in Afghanistan and Kashmir. ...the issue lies in your meddling.
That’s gold coming from a rat infested nation such as yours. It’s you who started the game in Afghanistan with NA and continued forward through WoT. Don’t compare yourself to lions considering you pulled out quicker than NATO and were reminded of your size after Balakot and Ladakh by the Chinese.
We are not discussing India in Ladakh against China. Thread is about various threats Pakistan is facing and its poor response against them

I don't why you needed to bring in famous lynching of Galwan valley in this thread
These dogs have nothing better to do.
 

El Sidd

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If a rat pokes a lion regularly, lion may take notice someday and put the rat in place. Rat may want to get back, dream to take revenge....but Rat will remain a Rat and Lion will be lion.

Pakistanis needs to remember its size. PDF janta needs to remember that MAD is not for people in power , who has all the luxury to themself.


Just stop meddling in Afghanistan and Kashmir. ...the issue lies in your meddling.
Afghanistan and Kashmir are alien territories for India.

Your size is your problem not a luxury.

Pakistan has stated that it does not see India as a competition anymore.
 

Areesh

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These dogs have nothing better to do.
Bol bol k thak gaya hoon. We need a good kutta maar muhim

we did a good kutta maar muhim in 90s. Then stopped it and the result is in front of us

We need to restart that muhim again

Warna kuttai isi tarah auqat sai bahar ho jaye gai
 

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