Navdeep,You didn't get me.
India military trucks are right hand drive the imported ones, and they drive on left side in India no problems.
By switching you will actually help them. Lol
We have minimal interest in the Indian auto industry, and the standards based on the "local need"You should research Indian auto industry, its shaped according to local needs, its not low quality.
And you are giving reason 4 switching sitting EU countries while you don't want to do anything with India lol, see the irony? They switched to increase trade and easy traveling.
For your information China and Pakistan have started exchanging goods and traffic primarily through the Karakoram highway and CPECNow 4 china its more economical to send goods by Sea route than Trucks. Its a universal truth, trade is always cheaper when sea routes are used. So this argument doesn't mean anything, when only country you can have road trade is out of picture. I.e, india.
There are a large number of startups for three wheelers, electric cars, and two wheelers with Chinese collaboration. Pakistan is also into the automobile components business with China. Joint manufacture with China of regular automobiles is a natural step.Only reason left is cheaper cars, China will kill your industry in few years if you allow cheap imports, China is way too powerful in mass productions.
Sweden changed in one day ( September 03, 1967) even though they had planned the change for about four years prior. Myanmar changed recently.Nobody is talking about what will happen to the hundreds of thousands of cars/trucks/buses already bought and running on the road ,
Changing them to LHD would too expensive , Plus nobody would be willing to pay that much extra . You could wait for them to get old and slowly phase them out but that would mean waiting a minimum of 15-20 years more
A good point. This problem was solved by placing orange visibility cones around the bus stops . This kept the traffic away from the pedestrian traffic mounting and dismounting from the bus.. running cars and buses with the opposite side doors in the meantime would be a massive safety hazard (Buses would be letting people down towards traffic instead of towards sidewalk/footpath.
Have already answered this to my reply to Navdeep.See above.The strategic advantage vis-a vis India is shaky at best , incoming armies and occupying militaries don't give a big deal about who drives where (especially in a war like situation ) , Heck some of India's imported trucks are actually already LHD.
Agree.,Yes, it is much better to co- manufacture automobiles. See my post to Navdeep above on this topicThe only real argument is cheaper cars but its much better to try to colaborate with the Chinese and start producing your own rather than try this scheme ,
We are deviating from the topic but I will answer your question brieflyIn my knowledge I have never heard Road or rail To be cheaper Than Sea Routes.
Can you please guide to any link. Cause Capec is good but its more about China political ambition than actually replacing sea route.
I think your port that China leased will be a major source of trade than the road network.
firstly the number of cars and buses in 1967 in a small population like Sweden and Pak in 2020 is different by an order of several magnitudes , Sweden only had close to a million vehicles , 90% of which were ALREADY LHD , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_HSweden changed in one day ( September 03, 1967) even though they had planned the change for about four years prior. Myanmar changed recently.
Cars and trucks can run their natural life. There is the famous example of Willy's Jeeps which were in use during and after World War 2 in both India and Pakistan. There were over 645,000 of these built by the USA and served with all allied nations in several left side of the road driving countries, India,Pakistan, U.K. Australia, Indonesia, Hong Kong, Singapore Malaysia etc. The Jeeps had no turn signals and the turning was effected by the driver giving hand signals which was not visible to an overtaking vehicle as thr driver was sitting on the left. The jeep carried a a "no signal " sign at the back. The onus lay on the overtaking vehicle to warn the driver by using the horn .People and systems do change. The world transitioned from land lines to mobile phones even the first mobile phones ( the size of a brick) were so expensive that no one predicted it would become an almost universal communications device for billions. Likewise the world transitioned to flat screen TV when the first TVs came on the market they cost $2000 far beyond what an average family could afford. Times change.
firstly the number of cars and buses in 1967 in a small population like Sweden and Pak in 2020 is different by an order of several magnitudes , Sweden only had close to a million vehicles , 90% of which were ALREADY LHD , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H
And no Myanmar didn't change "recently " they shifted in 1970 , https://www.irrawaddy.com/specials/on-this-day/day-myanmar-started-driving-right.html again at a time when there were few personal vehicles , despite this even 50 years later 8/10 Burmese cars are still RHD imported from Japan , their buses still let people out in oncoming traffic and the situation is still a massive chaos .And Considering Pak's authorities and driving public is far more similar to Myanmar than the Swedes it should serve as a cautionary tale .
For a topic you seem to be so passionate about it seems you haven't done much research on it ...
As for your flat screen Tv and smartphone example well that's just comparing apples to oranges , when a new technology like that comes that doesn't mean the old systems stop working ...Anyone who has an old tV or an old mobile doesn't need to change their devices if they don't feel like and they still keep working as they were intended to and people aren't actively bothered by it .
But that won't be the case with switching to LHD , People's cars and buses will actively become more dangerous, difficult and complicated to use , A vast majority of Pak commutes by bus which would now be a hazard everywhere (Its pretty much impossible to "switch" the doors on a bus without it costing more than a new bus itself ). All Turn signals would need to be caliberated from Day 1 , All signage and boards would need to be replaced before the change , All toll booths , expresssway entrances and exits would need to be changed . and most importantly the public would need to be taught about the differences and the do's and don'ts
People who have spent 50 years overtaking from the right and turning left without stopping would on one day need to stop that habit or lead to a massive number of crashes
What you are asking for a multi billion dollar undertaking that's a logistical nightmare and would take many years and massive amounts of cooperation with very few strategic or inherent advantages to the common man ,
As far as value of for money goes , Pak can do far far more important and urgent things with a couple of billion dollars
Lmao its clear that you are extremely naive about this topic and don't seem to comprehend or understand the level of logistical nightmare this is or the costs involved . Those switches were decades old and were mostly done by small countries with low vehicle numbers . None of them had even 10% the vehicles Pak has todayWould refer you to the site below which explains why there is a "left side " driving rule and why countries have always switched to right side of the road driving and not vice versa. It is not only Myanmar and Sweden but other countries such as Yugoslavia,Czechoslovakia,Finland etc. The switch to the right side of the road driving never caused any major problems and the benefits of a regionally integrated traffic system was obvious:
On your fears of an increase in accidents..About 35 per cent of the world's countries drive on the left. This strange quirk perplexes the rest of the world; but there is a perfectly good reason.www.worldstandards.eu
A significant number of Pakistanis in the provinces of Khybar Pakhtoon Khwa ( KPK) and Baluchistan are already familiar with driving on the right side of the road because of traffic crossing over into Afghanistan and Iran.
The specially trained CPEC drivers and those from the NLC ( National Logistics Cell) are familiar with driving heavy trucks across the most difficult terrain into China easily switching to the right side of the road driving. There is also a large number of ex-pat labor drivers with Gulf driving licenses who have been driving for years in the Gulf countries. As the political and economic situation changes , and Pakistan's ex-pat labor community returns home there will be a large pool of drivers trained to drive on the right side of the road. As Pakistan makes a "Sino-Central Asian" pivot away from the Arab nations, and into an Afghanistan, Iran, Turkey axis
( something like the RCD alliance of the 1960s-1970s ), having a compatible driving system would be advantageous.
If ever there was an opportune moment to make the transition it is now, as China leads the world in the switch to electric cars. Due to a modular design Electric cars are far easier to convert from right hand drive to left hand drive. For existing Right Hand Drive vehicles the example of the Willy's Jeep as mentioned in my earlier post is relevant. If the Willy's jeeps could live out their service life in a LHD mode without turning signal lights then the existing RHD vehicles with turning signals lights can continue to function (with care).
Pakistani buses frequently cross the borders at Torkham and Taftan ( and 12 other crossing points) into Afghanistan and Iran and the drivers effortlessly switch to driving on the right.
We are halfway converted already.
What we need is to make our roads accessible to Afghan, Chinese,Iranian,Turkish, and Arab tourists and businessmen and integrate into a regional Central Asian Middle Eastern hub. As part of the great Belt and Road Initiative formulated by our ally China.We need to take our place in region just as before when the Ghurid and Ghaznavid kingdoms were integrated into the Great Silk Route. The money spent in making our traffic compatible will be repaid many times over with the commerce and business generated.
That is Pakistan's rightful destiny.
On another note :
There is an extraordinary interest from out friendly next door neighbor on an issue that should be of little concern to them.
May I ask why this interest in how Pakistanis should drive?
Picture of heavy trucks crossing into Pakistan at Taftan. These are driving on the left of the road.
I won't suggest that you are dyslexic, only that you are too emotionally charged ( a common affliction across the border) to read the page below:Lmao its clear that you are extremely naive about this topic and don't seem to comprehend or understand the level of logistical nightmare this is or the costs involved . Those switches were decades old and were mostly done by small countries with low vehicle numbers . None of them had even 10% the vehicles Pak has today
Not a single country has shifted since 1970's , NOT ONE ...So your comparisons are 50 + years old with vastly different situations.
Wrong ! Jeeps can be covered or open top, (either a "hard" or soft top, and Indian Army generals preferred driving jeeps with covered tops even in battle.The Willis Jeep stuff is also ridiculous , Here's a newsflash for you ..Jeeps are open top and allow movement from the back of the vehicle , It makes no difference for a Jeep whether the traffic is LHD or RHD , Not even remotely comparable to your average hatchback or sedan.
Well... That's no insult since in terms of craziness we lose to our "friendly next door neighbor ", And to think a few truck/bus drivers in border areas translates into the other 99% of the population understanding LHD or calling it "halfway converted " is crazy
Thank you for your concern, I personally think that this forum should be restricted to Pakistan's Defense and Strategic affairs and on different threads I have expressed my dissent on flame bait topics such as who gets lynched where for having a certain type of beard. I had assumed that our "friendly neighbors " are less "crazy " and more circumspect. But I am changing my opinion.Also a couple of posts =/= "Extraordinary interest" ...Your own social and current event forum is usually filled with non strategic news from India even though they are rarely are anything of Pak's concern.
"completely unnecessary chaos"?Heck as far as we're concerned you should 100% go for this change ... Make it the campaign manifesto for the next election , Because while you're struggling with massive costs and insane logistical issues we'll be over here laughing at the completely unnecessary chaos .
China’s trains are left hand running.....We could do a study by getting data from other countries who have made the switch. If Myanmar could do it with far less resources then Pakistan could do it too. In fact the only logic behind Myanmar's decision is a possible linkup with China. All Myanmar's neighboring countries drive on the left side of the road. However they are still importing expensive right hand drive cars which is intriguing.
There are a large number of ex-pat Pakistani drivers in Dubai and other Middle Eastern countries who are trained to drive on the right side of the road.
As inter-operability is crucial with our allies most importantly China having left hand drive vehicles and changing the traffic rules will help immensely in a crisis. Look at the scenario when a large convoy of PLA vehicles cross the Karakoram pass in support of Pakistani defenses engaged in holding the enemy. The vehicles could drive straight through instead of being guided to the left side of the road. Likewise attrition of trucks and transport for the Pakistan army could be quickly made up with transfers from China without modifications or training of Pakistani army drivers.
In a future apocalyptic World War scenario Pakistani transport vehicles could operate in Afghanistan, and Iran far more easily.
Ground Support Vehicles.
Vehicles and equipment needed for ground support civil and military aviation are mostly left hand drive and it is harder for a right hand drive familiar driver to mentally adjust to operating a left hand drive aviation tractor. Positioning equipment such as luggage conveyors , battery trucks, waste water tanks, fuel trucks carefully such that they don't bump into the planes requires extreme care, I don't have any data as such but one ground maintenance engineer was telling me that equipment mishandling results in a lot of minor damage to aircraft on the ground which delays flights and results in costly repairs.
We should also seriously consider moving away from the British legacy 1676 mm ( Broad Gauge) to 1435 mm ( Standard Gauge). The vast majority of railway work equipment, locomotives, wagons and passenger coaches made globally are in the standard 1435 mm gauge and in fact this is the gauge used in the U.K. that imposed a different gauge on the sub-continent.
India removed some rolling stock from East Pakistan in the 1971 war and used the railway tracks extensively to bring its military hardware and supplies. The advantage of a broad gauge network to Pakistan's enemy is obvious.
Pakistan is partially converted to standard gauge ( at least on the CPEC route) but it should go for full standard gauge conversion and scrap the Munabao ( Thar Express) and Attari ( Samjhauta Express) links. These are the only links in broad gauge that would be relevant but the fact is that they link to an enemy nation and are now anyway defunct.
China Railways has standard 1435 mm gauge and the advantages of linking Pakistan Railways with a common gauge ate obvious.
The biggest advantage of converting from to standard gauge is the relatively lower cost had the conversion been to the reverse ( standard to broad).
India converted all its meter ( 1000 mm ) tracks to broad gauge at a huge cost, because widening the track meant widening bridges, tunnels, underpasses, railway platforms. Since a standard gauge is narrower than a broad gauge the conversion is far easier.
Did you link a video?
It didn't show up. Could you repost please,
China’s trains are left hand running and yes we should move to the standard Gauge in a similar fashion to how Australia didYou do have a valid case when you point to the rail network.
Calls another poster "dyslexic " while unable to differentiate between 1970 and 1970's ..... BrilliantI won't suggest that you are dyslexic, only that you are too emotionally charged ( a common affliction across the border) to read the page below:
For your bald ignorant statement that "Not ONE country has switched to the right hand side of the road since 1970 here's a news flash for you:
Nigeria switched to right side of the road driving in April 1972
Ghana switched in to the right side of the road driving in 1974
And to think a few truck/bus drivers in border areas translates into the other 99% of the population understanding LHD or calling it "halfway converted " is crazy .
That was clearly a response to your commentWell... That's no insult since in terms of craziness we lose to our "friendly next door neighbor "
I guess we are as "crazy" as China and the rest of the 65% of the world
that drives on the right.
Ok... I stand corrected and will yield to you here. I apologize for inferring you were dyslexic. I don't want to split hairs by arguing that in 1982 Falkland Islands under occupation by Argentina briefly changed to driving on the right side of the road, and East Timor has changed driving sides at least four times in the last century, because none of these changes were permanent, and as matters stand these territories drive on the left. The switch by Western Samoa in 2009 was to drive on the left.Calls another poster "dyslexic " while unable to differentiate between 1970 and 1970's ..... Brilliant
Confused here . I said 65% of the world's population which would be the case if Pakistan with it's 200 million population switches to driving on the right .Where did the 99% figure come from?That was clearly a response to your comment
"Pakistani buses frequently cross the borders at Torkham and Taftan ( and 12 other crossing points) into Afghanistan and Iran and the drivers effortlessly switch to driving on the right.
We are halfway converted already "
The 99% refers to rest of your populace ,living Karachi ,Lahore and other cities who are nowhere close to "halfway converted " to LHD , Hell like the rest of South Asia they barely manage to follow basic traffic rules .... Only you know how did you manage to twist this to mean 99 % of the world population .