What's new

SSG Commandos will induct Turkish MPT 76 Special Forces Varient kaan 717

Status
Not open for further replies.

iLION12345_1

SENIOR MEMBER
May 1, 2016
2,281
16
7,053
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Have they not already replaced their assualt rifles with the AK103 or someone from its kind?
They have not. A very small number of AK-103s were bought, and that was it, the standard rifles are currently Type 56-IIMs and other modernized AKs. G3s are only in limited use, both need replacement.

They were using a 7.62 chambered weapon a few years ago n they used it for 90% of WOT with great effect.
Those were not 7.62x51 weapons, they were 7.62x39 Type 56-IIs And then they got rid of them on the first chance when M4s were available because it’s a terrible rifle compared to the M4, especially in terms of accessory mounts.

so if you belittle our guns why not SSG buy fn mag and us saw instead of mpt 76?
They are copies, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. That’s how firearm designs work, if it’s good, you copy it, it’s smarter and cheaper, everyone does it; and it still takes a very good industry to produce these weapons at high quality.

Pakistan doesn’t produce any modern firearms on any large scale, so there’s no reason to feel offended by his words. The SSG can afford to buy the western weaponry as they need it in smaller number, for the regular infantry, Turkey will always make more sense for Pakistan due to cheaper costs and easier ToT.
 
Last edited:

Reichmarshal

FULL MEMBER
Jan 19, 2006
878
0
1,961
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
They have not. A very small number of AK-103s were bought, and that was it, the standard rifles are currently Type 56-IIMs and other modernized AKs. G3s are only in limited use, both need replacement.


Those were not 7.62x51 weapons, they were 7.62x39 Type 56-IIs And then they got rid of them on the first chance when M4s were available because it’s a terrible rifle compared to the M4, especially in terms of accessory mounts.
M4 it self has not covered it self will glory. Some time ago the M4 finished dead last in a sandstorm reliability test, against 3 competitors that include a convertible M4 variant. Worse, the 4th place M4 had over 3.5x more jams than the 3rd place finisher. The u.s Army moved forward with an “Individual Carbine” competition, but as the results started to show the M4 again lagging – even with ammunition changed to a round specially formulated to make the M4 shine – the u.s Army abruptly stopped the process.
A small arms review done by the u.s Marines after the early phases of Operation Iraqi Freedom revealed that urban warfare scenarios made employment of the M4 difficult in some situations; Marines were picking up short AK-47s with folding butt-stocks, or scrounging pistols for use.

The problem with an M4 is its reliability – if you can maintain it. Failure to maintain the weapon meticulously can lead to jams, especially in sandy or dusty environments. Kalashnikovs may not have a reputation for accuracy, or lightness – but they do have a well-earned reputation for being able to take amazing amounts of abuse, without maintenance, and still fire reliably.
In the heat of a battle reliability is the thing that out weighs all other aspects of a weapon.

How did they over came this major flaw

Delta force had reached out to H&K for a fix.
One of which is heat build-up and gas from its operating mechanism that dries out some lubricants, and helps open the way for sand damage
H&K replaced Colt’s “gas-tube” system with a short-stroke piston system that eliminates carbon blow-back into the chamber, and also reduces the heat problem created by the super-hot gases used to cycle the M4. Other changes were made to the magazine, barrel, etc. The final product was an M4 with a new upper receiver and magazine, plus H&K’s 4-rail system of standard “Picatinny Rails” on the top, bottom, and both sides for easy addition of anything a Special Operator might require.

HK416 was the result of all of the above. But wt SSG got is an other sorry story.
 

Metal 0-1

FULL MEMBER
Aug 14, 2016
1,771
11
1,936
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
M4 it self has not covered it self will glory. Some time ago the M4 finished dead last in a sandstorm reliability test, against 3 competitors that include a convertible M4 variant. Worse, the 4th place M4 had over 3.5x more jams than the 3rd place finisher. The u.s Army moved forward with an “Individual Carbine” competition, but as the results started to show the M4 again lagging – even with ammunition changed to a round specially formulated to make the M4 shine – the u.s Army abruptly stopped the process.
A small arms review done by the u.s Marines after the early phases of Operation Iraqi Freedom revealed that urban warfare scenarios made employment of the M4 difficult in some situations; Marines were picking up short AK-47s with folding butt-stocks, or scrounging pistols for use.

The problem with an M4 is its reliability – if you can maintain it. Failure to maintain the weapon meticulously can lead to jams, especially in sandy or dusty environments. Kalashnikovs may not have a reputation for accuracy, or lightness – but they do have a well-earned reputation for being able to take amazing amounts of abuse, without maintenance, and still fire reliably.
In the heat of a battle reliability is the thing that out weighs all other aspects of a weapon.

How did they over came this major flaw

Delta force had reached out to H&K for a fix.
One of which is heat build-up and gas from its operating mechanism that dries out some lubricants, and helps open the way for sand damage
H&K replaced Colt’s “gas-tube” system with a short-stroke piston system that eliminates carbon blow-back into the chamber, and also reduces the heat problem created by the super-hot gases used to cycle the M4. Other changes were made to the magazine, barrel, etc. The final product was an M4 with a new upper receiver and magazine, plus H&K’s 4-rail system of standard “Picatinny Rails” on the top, bottom, and both sides for easy addition of anything a Special Operator might require.

HK416 was the result of all of the above. But wt SSG got is an other sorry story.
Whaaaaaaaaat

When you realise HK-416 is AR-18 platform while M-4 is AR-15
 

Reichmarshal

FULL MEMBER
Jan 19, 2006
878
0
1,961
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Whaaaaaaaaat

When you realise HK-416 is AR-18 platform while M-4 is AR-15
HK416 is an assault rifle manufactured by Heckler and Koch with the collaboration of Delta Force. It is an improved version of the M4 carbine. The short stroke gas piston system of the carbine is designed in such a way that when it drives the operating rod it will force the bolt carrier to the rear. This design does not allow combustion gases from entering the interior of the carbine. The short stroke gas piston system of HK416 is actually an adaptation of the Heckler & Koch G36. It is available in the form of a whole weapon and is also offered as an upper receiver kit attachment to any AR-15 type lower receiver. The aiming and illumination gadgets, the grips, and an AG416 40 mm grenade launcher could be fixed on the set of rails.
 

Metal 0-1

FULL MEMBER
Aug 14, 2016
1,771
11
1,936
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
HK416 is an assault rifle manufactured by Heckler and Koch with the collaboration of Delta Force. It is an improved version of the M4 carbine. The short stroke gas piston system of the carbine is designed in such a way that when it drives the operating rod it will force the bolt carrier to the rear. This design does not allow combustion gases from entering the interior of the carbine. The short stroke gas piston system of HK416 is actually an adaptation of the Heckler & Koch G36. It is available in the form of a whole weapon and is also offered as an upper receiver kit attachment to any AR-15 type lower receiver. The aiming and illumination gadgets, the grips, and an AG416 40 mm grenade launcher could be fixed on the set of rails.
Someone get this guy a cookie.


I know man. I know the history of 416.
Larry Vickers is the name of Delta Operator who contributed in this program.
 

bananarepublic

SENIOR MEMBER
Jan 15, 2015
2,415
5
2,842
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
HK416 is an assault rifle manufactured by Heckler and Koch with the collaboration of Delta Force. It is an improved version of the M4 carbine. The short stroke gas piston system of the carbine is designed in such a way that when it drives the operating rod it will force the bolt carrier to the rear. This design does not allow combustion gases from entering the interior of the carbine. The short stroke gas piston system of HK416 is actually an adaptation of the Heckler & Koch G36. It is available in the form of a whole weapon and is also offered as an upper receiver kit attachment to any AR-15 type lower receiver. The aiming and illumination gadgets, the grips, and an AG416 40 mm grenade launcher could be fixed on the set of rails.
My man doesn't know the difference between direct gas impingement and short stroke pistons.
 

Super Falcon

ELITE MEMBER
Jul 3, 2008
15,142
-9
6,019
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Arab Emirates
SSG uses 556 calibre. Why would they entirely switch their standard calibre? Makes absolutely no sense to go from a modern intermediate cartridge back to an older, larger and frankly less useful one (for CQB purposes). The only reason they might buy these is in specialized Rifleman roles in small numbers, otherwise it makes no sense for them to replace perfectly good M4s with these.



Firstly, it’s not lousy. But it’s definitely not a solution. However the army hasn’t bought any of them. Only the FC, which is using it to replace even older Type 56s and G3s. So for them it might make sense due to the cheaper costs.

The army has stopped using G3 in most roles since years ago, it’s mainly Type 56-IIs and other modernized AKs now, however again they’re not a solution, just a stop gap; the army still needs a new rifle, and i suspect it will be a 7.62x39 calibre, with a second 7.62x51 calibre rifle being purchased in smaller numbers for specific roles where it’s still more useful, otherwise the x51 calibre needs to be phased out, it’s way too big for closer engagements, the weapons are too heavy and recoil is too strong.


Trials already ended, haven’t heard anything since, it seems like rifles are not a priority, other things are. I’m sure the army will get there eventually, I just hope it’s soon.
Mpt 76 has varient for 5.56.46 nato rounds as well

Last gun tested was a complete failure

BW 10 Was a stupid idea just giving same G 3 few modification still it's G 3 world is not mad or fool designing completely new gun to replace them

News is KAAN 717 will be bought in armoud 200 carbines for SSG use as they are direct design based on German HK 416 and are better in some features and it's specially designed for special forces units and very reliable gun
 

Yawm al-qiyama

FULL MEMBER

New Recruit

Jul 20, 2017
19
0
24
Country
Turkey
Location
Turkey
Army, FC & SSG with the same weapons.
View attachment 869429 View attachment 869430 View attachment 869434 View attachment 869435 View attachment 869436
View attachment 869431

As for MPT, its not even a machine gun.


And we do produce LMGs and HMGs.
i never claimed mpt to be a machine gun it is an assault rifle take a look at the video thats not mpt its a light machine gun produced by Sar.

All of these are already in use, except mpt76.
How is it in use its not even delivered to Turkish army. I am talking about a new Turkish made machine gun that will soon enter service in the TAF. The mg in question is called KMG556.

 
Last edited:

Yawm al-qiyama

FULL MEMBER

New Recruit

Jul 20, 2017
19
0
24
Country
Turkey
Location
Turkey

blain2

ADVISORS
Jan 20, 2006
8,036
55
11,900
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
I mean rumours are rumours. The fact is the G3 needs to be replaced.
G3 can still be kept in limited numbers, what we do need a replacement for is MG-3. It has outlived its utility. You need two men to sustain one MG. Need a more lightweight system. SSG already dropped it and have been using FN Minime for some time now (which is also being retired in the US Army ala M-149) and this is across all three Special Services.
 

HAIDER

ELITE MEMBER
May 21, 2006
27,559
10
28,676
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
1660497312518.png
 

iLION12345_1

SENIOR MEMBER
May 1, 2016
2,281
16
7,053
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Mpt 76 has varient for 5.56.46 nato rounds as well

Last gun tested was a complete failure

BW 10 Was a stupid idea just giving same G 3 few modification still it's G 3 world is not mad or fool designing completely new gun to replace them

News is KAAN 717 will be bought in armoud 200 carbines for SSG use as they are direct design based on German HK 416 and are better in some features and it's specially designed for special forces units and very reliable gun
I mean no offense, but don’t spread false information about things you know nothing about. And if you’re going to make claims, present sources. Otherwise I have no need to acknowledge or respond to this.

If the SSG is adopting the rifle, then we’ll see it eventually, but as it stands there has been no actual proof or indication of such. We don’t know how the BW series performed in trials either, so that’s another assumption you make without reason. And what good will 200 rifles do for the SSG? The SSG is massive. Why introduce a logistical problem by having two equivalent firearms in a single force, doing the same job, when you don’t have the money for it? If they really have a good reason to entirely switch off the M4 platform, then they’ll do exactly that. Not half *** it.

G3 can still be kept in limited numbers, what we do need a replacement for is MG-3. It has outlived its utility. You need two men to sustain one MG. Need a more lightweight system. SSG already dropped it and have been using FN Minime for some time now (which is also being retired in the US Army ala M-149) and this is across all three Special Services.
The G3 needs to go before the MG3. The MG3 can still do it’s job effectively despite being heavy since it is a two man weapon in the PA.
The G3 cannot do it’s job as effectively due to the same concerns (weight, recoil, size). That’s why the army has basically already stopped using the G3 for most applications.

I think Pakistan can modernize the MG3 platform to make it lighter if they really wanted to, without replacing the entire weapon. Would save a lot of money.

There isn’t really a concept of a single-man LMG in the PA at the moment, like the M249 SAW in the US army. But it can definitely be introduced, for that a new MG can be incorporated, I think for that we will have to wait and see what PAs standard calibre becomes. If they really are switching to 7.62x39, then they’d want an LMG chambered in that too.

The SSGs usage doesn’t really apply to the normal infantry, Their squads work differently, plus they only need a small number so funding isn’t as much of an issue. They also already use the 556 calibre so they can use an MG chambered in the same round.
 
Last edited:

RescueRanger

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Sep 20, 2008
12,040
192
24,653
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
G3 can still be kept in limited numbers, what we do need a replacement for is MG-3. It has outlived its utility. You need two men to sustain one MG. Need a more lightweight system. SSG already dropped it and have been using FN Minime for some time now (which is also being retired in the US Army ala M-149) and this is across all three Special Services.
Fully agree re: MG-3, it's cumbersome to use and deploy, reliable platform dating back to WWII but outdated now and as you have mentioned we have better systems available in market, why not use those.

I've always found the G3 to have great accuracy in single shot but unreliable when using fully auto, the length makes it impractical for CQB, it can be retained for training and doled out to Levies, police and paramilitary forces as they did with the SKS which still saw service with FC in the 90's and early noughties before being replaced by the G3 and SMG 7.62.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom