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Spike or Javelin? India Still Undecided on a Billion Dollar Missile Buy..

Discussion in 'Indian Defence Forum' started by jha, Mar 28, 2011.

  1. jha

    jha ELITE MEMBER

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    Spike or Javelin? India Still Undecided on a Billion Dollar Missile Buy..

    The Indian Army is planning to equip its ground forces with thousands of anti-tank missiles to be built in India. The Indian military considers two options, both of them exclusive – the FGM-148 Javelin, proposed under a Government-to-Government (G2G) program via U.S. Foreign Military Sale (FMS), and the Spike MR, proposed by Israel’s Rafael Advanced Defense Systems, being the only bidder in an international tender, which specified characteristics and specifications only the Israeli company could meet.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    SPIKE

    The Indian Army plans to install the missiles on infantry combat vehicles currently carrying locally produced AT-5 or Milan missiles.

    The Indian Ministry of Defense plans to order 321 launchers, and 8,356 missiles, plus 15 training simulators in a multi-phase arms package worth over one billion US$. Two options are currently on the table – the U.S. Javelin and the Israeli Spike MR.

    The current decision by the Indian authorities clears the way for an official selection of Rafael as a preferred supplier of the missile but does not guarantee winning the order, since as a single supplier a company is most exposed to procedural and bureaucratic objections that are likely to delay the program, enabling competitors to gain pressure in hope for a wind change at the Indian MOD. Overall, a single supplier status is often approved for short term programs, justified by rapidly addressing urgent operational requirements. (An examplem is the recent French acquisition of Javelin missiles, to equip its units in Afghanistan.)

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Javelin

    Recent news reports (Defense News 24 June, 2010 and 24 March, 2011) claimed both companies have won the program. Both are premature, and, technically, both can be correct, as the Indians have not made their selection yet. Both programs are proceeding in parallel channels; each has its own advantages and obstacles. Eventually, only one channel will be selected – either the open bid contract or the G2G path. The later means the work share Indian companies will get would be minimal (unless Lockheed Martin and Raytheon will be authorized by the U.S. government to outsource Javelin work to India, a procedure that hasn’t been approved yet). In addition to limited local production will not be possible, as the procurement would be made through the U.S. Army channels and, as such, is likely to be more expensive than the Israeli alternative. On the positive side, the G2G path is less susceptible to public scrutiny and bureaucratic obstacles, and therefore, could be available in short term.

    The open selection means the process will be longer, yet offer much more Indian industrial involvement, technology transfer, and local production, in addition to the benefit of offset, as mandated by the Indian government.

    Rafael being the only bidder in this tender, the Indian Army had to obtain a special permit to sign a deal on the basis of a tender with just one potential vendor. While technology transfer is a big issue in India, another reason for the absence of competitors was the Indian insistence on unique weapons performance – the Indians demanded that the missiles will enable “active-passive fire-and-forget guidance system”, which only Rafael can offer. Off the shelf third generation (3G) missiles are employing passive sensors to lock on the target before launch, and perform ‘fire and forget’ engagement. At present, only the Spike can offer ‘active passive 3G fire and forget’ – the ability for the user to correct the missile’s aiming in flight, as it closes in on the target, thus offering the ‘active’ element of the engagement.

    While the Indian Army is currently interested in the medium range version of Spike, other requirements also include will longer range guided weapons which could offer the Spike an advantage in establishing a common logistics, training and support.

    As industrial participation and technology transfer, if Rafael eventually wins the order, the Indians will get the first deliveries of missiles from Israel but Rafael is likely to shift production to India, as it successfully have done in other markets, some of the recent examples include Poland and Spain. In India, Rafael is likely to work with Bharat Dynamics Ltd., an Indian government-owned company specialized in missile development and production. In addition to missile assembly, India could produce most of the system, particularly if Rafael is successful in negotiating the joint venture it plans with Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), in establishing a private, India based company to produce missile seekers for air/air and surface/air missiles. This JV could also address the Spike’s EO seekers.


    Spike or Javelin? India Still Undecided on a Billion Dollar Missile Buy - Defense-Update
     
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  2. Black Widow

    Black Widow BANNED

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    Why Not NAG???? can not it be used as ATG???

    I will tell you a story: During field trial of Arjuna Tank it was observed that It(Arjuna) was failing to meet objective.. every time some issue were coming..Arjuna lost and order was given for Russian 1000+ T90 ........DRDO was pissed off.... ..Finally they decided to attach a black box mechanism to Arjuna, The black box mechanism was capable to catch any sabotage (done by Army)... And finally Arjuna test was successful...

    So these kind of leg pulling happen to our engineer... The brokers intentionally sabotage the indian products... I think instead of going spike or javeine its better to see if we can develop any thing similar...
     
  3. tallboy123

    tallboy123 SENIOR MEMBER

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    ^^NAG is not shoulder launched and man portable...

    Man portable NAG is in development
     
  4. Black Widow

    Black Widow BANNED

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    Yeah I just browsed... I think IA must give some time to get "Man portable NAG" developed....
     
  5. BlueDot_in_Space

    BlueDot_in_Space FULL MEMBER

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    You are asking too much from IA. time is money my freind:devil:
     
  6. madooxno9

    madooxno9 BANNED

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  7. angeldemon_007

    angeldemon_007 SENIOR MEMBER

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    I prefer Spike.....Javelin is not that good and even expensive...
     
  8. iPakMan

    iPakMan FULL MEMBER

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    Well sounds to me that Spike is the better choice, though i am a bit biased, from the article i think its the better choice for the Indian army. :meeting:
     
  9. rockstarIN

    rockstarIN SENIOR MEMBER

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    Spike need a stand/platform to fire where as Javelin is more user friendly..

    I prefer Javelin for a limited quantity for filling the gap till we get man portable NAG..
     
  10. guest11

    guest11 FULL MEMBER

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    The advantage Spike has over Javelin is it's Fibre optic guidance system; allows firing from covered and reverse slope positions and the guidance package on the Spike allows mid-course correction and the changing of the target being engaged. Javelin is direct line of sight (although its true that the missile arcs upward before engaging/top attack mode). Also once you fire off a Javelin that's it, no possibility of redirecting the missile to a higher value target.

    Courtesy :Tukhachevskii.

    I too believe that man in loop option gives Spike an edge over Javelin and another thing which should be considered is of course the price tag.
     
  11. justanobserver

    justanobserver SENIOR MEMBER

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    Ahh screw both of them and develop the man portable NAG !
     
  12. BlueDot_in_Space

    BlueDot_in_Space FULL MEMBER

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    Just get the Javelin to satisfy some IA bad eggs. In the meantime work on man-portable NAG. This must be the last foreign ATGM inducted into IA.
     
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  13. Skull and Bones

    Skull and Bones ELITE MEMBER

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    Don't we already have MILAN ATGMs and that's too in large numbers, then what's the hurry to go for another platform. We should give DRDO some time to come up with their own shoulder fired AGTMs.
     
  14. Tshering22

    Tshering22 ELITE MEMBER

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    Typical indecisive corrupt nature of UPA-ruled Indian government...no matter how many times their zombies in Indian public try to defend them, their actions always live upto their reputation.
     
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  15. luckyyy

    luckyyy SENIOR MEMBER

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    as per the article :

    The Indian Army plans to install the missiles on infantry combat vehicles currently carrying locally produced AT-5 or Milan missiles