• Friday, December 6, 2019

Social Acceptability of the Talib & the Talib Ideology !

Discussion in 'Pakistan's Internal Security' started by Armstrong, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. niaz

    niaz PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Religious party support in the Frontier regions goes back a long way. First Islamic Emirate headed by Syed Ahmed Shaheed Braelvi was established circa 1826. This ended after the defeat and shahadat of Syed Ahmed & Shah Ismail at the battle of Balakot on May 6, 1831. Also that most of the training camps for the Mujahedeen were in the then NWFP. Malakand also had strong support for the TNFSM as long as I can remember. Nevertheless, Bacha Khan Red Shirts were a secular group and have also enjoyed popularity since before partition. To this day secular ANP is probably the biggest political party in the KP.

    Additionally, we must not forget support for the extremist parties in the Southern Punjab. Islamic extremist parties have been active in Ahmedpur East and Jhang from the early 80’s. Taliban armies fighting Northern Alliance included many Pakistanis from South Punjab. These have been financed by our Middle Eastern friends for a very long time. See report in Dawn:

    Saudi Arabia, UAE financing extremism in south Punjab | DAWN.COM

    Among the Urdu speakers of Karachi, JI is the second most popular party after MQM. Thus
    social acceptability of Taliban ideology is now wide spread in Pakistan. We may not like it but have to accept the bitter truth. An excellent article by Ayaz Amir lamenting the ignorance of young Pakistanis and the dishonesty of the public in general is noted below:

    Courage as defined in the Islamic Republic’


    Ayaz Amir
    Friday, November 23, 2012

    Islamabad diary

    In the annals of bravery this must rank very high: brainwashing virtual kids into strapping suicide vests around their bodies and blowing them up as per the directions of their handlers. The boy caught two to three days ago in Peshawar wearing a suicide vest was a 13-year-old. His handler caught with him was 20-21.

    It can be guessed that they thought they were on their way to instant paradise, the incense of martyrdom in their nostrils, convinced that houris of unimaginable beauty impatiently awaited their arrival. With my own sinful ears I have heard preachers advertising the delights of the Elysian Fields. Their recital of the rivers of milk and honey is relatively tepid. But when it comes to the accomplishments of the immortal virgins a kind of rapture comes over them.

    What refined callousness to trick gullible youngsters into the dark world of suicide bombing? No shortage of this quality among the extreme devotees of the faith wearing the righteous badge of the Tehreek-e-Taliban. But impressive as their dreadful courage is I would be slightly more impressed if the vice chancellors of the suicide factories were to send their own kith and kin – why not their own kids? – into divine battle.

    Why are the vice chancellors always picking on impressionable youngsters, most of them coming from backgrounds of extreme poverty? Why not let the incense of martyrdom come closer home?

    One thing I have never been able to understand. Our bravery is pegged to the prospect of instant or eventual reward in heaven. That is the promise. When the votaries of one sect kill members of another sect, when the Taliban send suicide missions, when our own soldiers go into battle, sustaining their courage is the belief that their reward is permanent rest in the ever-green fields.

    How many Germans died in the Second World War? How many Russians? In the uncounted millions. The Germans at least were Christians, some picture of the hereafter a part of their religious beliefs. But the Red Army was a heathen army, according to our way of reckoning these things. The faith of its soldiers was buttressed by no certainty of heavenly recompense. How they fought, both sides, their courage indomitable. So which is the more impressive courage?

    What about Ajmal Kasab, of backwater Faridkot, another product of our jihad factories? Involved as he was in a heinous act of terrorism my heart still went out to him when I heard the news of his hanging. I need hardly say, not out of any sympathy for the deed of which he was a part but because of his extreme vulnerability...which made him such an easy target for his handlers, those who picked him up and trained him and sent him on his desperate mission.

    This mentally half-formed kid, with little knowledge of the outside world, how easily brainwashed. What picture of a make-believe world must have been fed to him. Spies, espionage agents, commandos go on dangerous missions, not knowing whether they would return, but fully aware of the risks. The burden they carry is that of the profession of arms. There is something magnificent in this.

    Hezbollah fighters coming close to Israeli Merkava tanks, as in the 2006 war, and using anti-tank missiles against them...this is true heroism again. But where’s the nobility in turning kids into suicide bombers? All you have is defenceless kids and extremely clever instructors. The devil would be proud of such cleverness.

    And mark the caution of the divine brigade. From its loudspeakers will issue all kinds of fatwas on every subject under the sun but about the evil of child or juvenile bombers not a word. Look at Qazi Hussain Ahmed, targeted in the tribal areas by a female bomber and declaring instantly that this was not the work of the Taliban – perish the very thought – but of the Indo-Jewish-American lobby. Marvel at the reach of this lobby which can enter where our own soldiers are cautious to tread.

    A special kind of bravery is also involved in the attacks on imambargahs and Shia processions we are witnessing this Muharram. Do the suicide bombers understand the complications of the web in which they are caught? They deserve pity and understanding. But what about their masterminds? What are they aiming at? Isn’t there enough disorder in the country already? Or is it the greater glory of their own particular sect that they seek? If this, then it is a demented frame of mind which finds glory in acts so despicable.

    There are warriors of the faith, greatly respected in their own communities, who proclaim it their life-mission to eliminate sectarian enemies. Forgive my vague terminology but with fires burning all around us we have to be careful. And because they think that their mission is divinely-ordained they feel no qualms in stopping people, checking their identities and, if they happen to be on the wrong side of the sectarian divide, shooting them in cold blood. And this Muharram, just as it has started, Shia places of worship – in Karachi, in ‘Pindi and elsewhere – have been attacked. And all that the authorities can do is mount more police marches, which terrify no one, and issue meaningless statements.

    Don’t discount conspiracy theorists who will say that this is the work of the agencies. And don’t discount the Qazi Hussain school of thought whose knights with solemn face will again draw attention to the Indo-Jewish lobby...everyone to blame except our own failings.

    What are we coming to? No...what have we come to is more like it. The wages of what jihad are we earning? Seeking influence in Afghanistan, liberating Kashmir and setting our own house on fire in the process is the sum-total of our strategic brilliance. The grandmasters who gave us this philosophy deserve an extended stay in a correction centre.

    But the past is the past; the future beckons. Discipline, even a modicum of it, has fled from our national life. Disorder is spreading and since we are not Maoists, nor ever were meant to be, we can’t say that the resultant situation is excellent. The litany of despair is long and familiar. No need to go over it again. But consider one thing: if even loudspeakers are out of control, how on earth do we go about fixing other things?

    Milk adulterated, other foodstuffs adulterated, clean drinking water hard to come by, we all understand. But the call to prayer adulterated? Go to any town or village in Pakistan and listen to the tamasha made of the morning call to prayers: something added before the azaan and something added afterwards, and even when the azaan is done preachers making a nuisance of themselves, and the authorities helpless as ever.

    Whether a political schemer of the first rank or not, Manzoor Wattoo as Punjab chief minister forbade the misuse of mosque loudspeakers and saw to it that his orders were implemented. For this one act of kindness his other sins can be forgiven.

    Loudspeakers, however, can be controlled, as can the traffic on the roads. The tax collection machinery can be improved and the police reformed, although it will take more than pious statements of intent to bring this about. But looking at the craziness taking hold across the country our basic problem seems a bit different. It is the national psyche and our modes of thinking which seem to be out of order: the computer wiring gone all wrong. Is there any other explanation for juvenile suicide bombers and imambargah bombings?

    Email: winlust@yahoo.com
    Courage as defined in the Islamic Republic
     
  2. snakeeagle

    snakeeagle FULL MEMBER

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    in old days we pronouced talib to that person who dewote his life for seeking knowledge,
     
  3. Arsalan

    Arsalan MODERATOR

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    Kaisi Bakhshish Ka Ye Saaman Huwa Phirta Hai,
    Shehr Saara Hi Preshan Huwa Phirta Hai..

    Ek Barood Ki Jacket aur Naara-e-Takbeer,
    Raasta Jannat Ka Aasan Huwa Phirta Hai...

    Kaisa Ishq Hai? Tere Naam Pe Qurban Hai Mgr,
    Teri Har Baat Say Anjaan Huwa Phirta Hai...

    Shab Ko Shaitan B Mangay Hai Panaahen Jis Say,
    Subah Ko Wo Sahib-e-Eimaan Huwa Phirta Hai...

    Jaanay Kab Kon Kisay Maar Day Kafir Keh Kar,
    Shehr Ka Shehr Muslman Huwa Phirta Hai...!!

    :cry:
     
  4. niaz

    niaz PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Very poignant indeed, my compliments sir.
     
  5. muse

    muse PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Found this editorial - please do review - especially Fauji types, win or get out of the way:

    Pattern of terrorism and our response
    By Editorial
    Published: November 24, 2012



    There is no doubt that the Taliban had prepared a more elaborate plan of terrorist action during Ashura this year than in the past. They had given a warning about it and the Pakistani state was amply forewarned and to some extent, better prepared. It needs to be stated, however, that the Taliban’s strength shows no sign of abating despite rumours of their internal fragmentation.

    On November 22, a bomb stashed in a vegetable vehicle near an imambargah in Karachi was defused successfully. Another concealed in a can was more amateurish and its five-kilogramme load was without a timer or any other detonation device. Karachi, despite adverse publicity from the probing media, seemed somewhat better prepared. For the Ninth and Tenth of Muharram, the city will have 40,000 officials of the police, Rangers and FC deployed with CCTV cameras and restricted traffic in critical areas.

    In the rest of the country, the Taliban had devised more organised destruction: the suicide bombing of a Muharram procession in Rawalpindi killed 23 but a closer look at how the mayhem unfolded tells us that the bombing did not go as planned after the bomber was stopped from entering the main body of the procession. Telltale hand grenades told the story of the attackers’ original plan. Suicide bombers were caught in Peshawar and a planted bomb defused.

    The D-Day is the climax of Ashura, the Ninth and Tenth of Muharram. The government is losing the media battle and has lost trust of the people but is nonetheless facing up to the challenge despite paucity of funds and untrained police manpower. It is relying on the people themselves to take precautionary measures, which are not popular: suspending cellular services and banning pillion riding in cities where people have to go to their jobs or starve in a collapsing economy.


    Punjab, better off on record than the other provinces in countering terrorism, is also worried this time because of a number of daring acts carried out on its territory earlier, including the killing of military personnel near Gujrat. The inspector general of the Punjab police has made elaborate antiterrorism plan and is strengthened in his confidence by the capture of two Taliban-linked terrorists who had killed our soldiers.

    As for the rest of the country, the situation seems bleak as ever, with every passing day of the month of Muharram, causing either high anxiety or bringing reports of an actual attack. In the past few days, several attacks have taken place, causing scores of deaths, suggesting that the assault on the country’s Shias, by highly misguided bigoted groups is, unfortunately, continuing and instead of coming with any long-term strategy, the state is left with little choice but to respond to it — for now — on a day-to-day basis.

    Every Muharram, the Taliban and their allied sectarian and militant outfits make a show of their strength. It is psychological war against the state and it is succeeding every time the victim after escaping death says the Americans had tried to kill him. This is humiliating because this pathology of fear comes after the Taliban have claimed that they mounted the attack. And it will, unfortunately, continue to happen until the state is united and mounts a wholesale offensive – military and non-military – against those involved in perpetrating violence on its citizens on the basis of their sect.

    Where Pakistan is losing the battle is the mind. And that includes the minds of our ministers and political figures who take great pains to ‘explain’ terrorism as ‘foreign hand’, carefully ignoring the claims of strikes made by Hakeemullah Mehsud’s spokesmen in North Waziristan. Psychologically, it can only be explained as defeatism because the ‘foreign hand’ posited by them includes countries Pakistan can do nothing against. If America, India and Israel are involved in terrorism here, then we should say goodbye to Pakistan because we are not in a position to attack them except that we should reactivate our non-state actors who have brought only shame to us.
     
  6. The Green1

    The Green1 FULL MEMBER

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    Consider that incident as a reaction not an offensive.
     
  7. The Green1

    The Green1 FULL MEMBER

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    I think Talibans were created in Afg and they remain there, the people who are carrying out attacks inside Pakistan have a confused thinking and mostly work for money. Suddenly you read that ttp broke into 3 branches , had a fight with his commander the group got split. Apparently these pakistani so called ttp have taken a wow with Mullah Umer but it is just a propaganda Mullah Umer never declared a war against Pakistan or its armed forces. These ttp thugs have support from cia, raw, mossad and mi6 with out their funding they cant survive 2 weeks.
    Yes the real talibans who are in afghanistan have sympathy and roots in our society purely because of jihad and their positive behavior for Pakistan.

    As for suicide bombings on our shia brothers this is the work of these terrorists who kidnap young kids strap them with suicide jackets , force them to do it otherwise they would kill their family members etc etc . Some also brain wash these kids.
    People on this forum who have links in the intelligence agency might have some idea what i am talking about.
     
  8. Thorough Pro

    Thorough Pro ELITE MEMBER

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    I'll consider the bolded part as a joke. 9/11 had nothing to do with Pakistan or Afghanistan or Taliban. To start with if any one thinks that 9/11 was an out side job lives an ingnorant life. 9/11 was nothing more than a self-inflicted injury to promote US agenda. This false WOT is hte real cause of extremism in afghanistan, and drone attacksarecause ofextremism inn Pakistani tribalbelt, not the other way round.
     
  9. Fracker

    Fracker SENIOR MEMBER

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    TTP is not capable of doing anything by their own, especially inside Pakistan. They have been supervised by foreign elements, to guide them in their struggle to raise a conflict between Shia and Sunni. They also know what is in a head of them. This also can be something to divert attention for something big planning ... PA and ISI are now into most crucial state. Gawadar hand over has pushed western force to achieve their goal quickly.

    Pakistani People should know that PA, Police, MI and other security officials can't do everything by their own.. Threats has become much dangerous now.. We should see what is happening around and try to alert security on any thing Suspicious.. who knows in reality you are protecting yourself as your family..

    Murderer has no moral, no religion, no dignity, They only have goals.... and why all these attacks are for? To Divide Muslims
     
  10. VCheng

    VCheng ELITE MEMBER

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    Oh really? OBL hatched the plan in which country? KSM, the mastermind of logistical planning for the attack, was a citizen of which country, and was captured where? Where was OBL killed? How many Al-Qaeda operatives in which country were apprehended by your own security agencies?

    Your conspiratorial rant only serves to indicate that the lunacy which contributed to the attack is seeping ever widespread into Pakistani society, and that does not bode well for the future. The tragedy is that the price for such lunacy will be high and paid by more innocents.

    The joke is really on you, sadly.
     
  11. batmannow

    batmannow BANNED

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    Jamming cell phones will not stop us: Taliban
    By: The Nation Monitoring | November 24, 2012 . 8
    Jamming cell phones will not stop us: Taliban | The Nation

    KHYBER AGENCY - A spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban has claimed that suspending mobile phone services in the country will not hold back the militant group from carrying out its activities, reported a private TV channel on Friday.Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan, speaking on the telephone from an undisclosed location, claimed the banned group did not carry out bombings using cellular phones as detonators. “We do not carry out bombings through mobile phones,” said the Taliban spokesman. The militant group’s claim came on a day of cellular service suspension in several parts of the country, with the interior minister announcing services would be blocked again Saturday morning for the next two days after a few hours of restoration Friday midnight. Authorities say militants often detonate bombs using cell phones, with Interior Minister Rehman Malik claiming earlier Friday that 90 per cent of the bombs set off by militants in the country had been detonated using mobile phones. “The Taliban cannot be stopped by jamming mobile phone services. We would achieve our targets in any case,” said Ehsan, accusing Malik of blocking cellular services for “his own personal business interests”.


    Another great example of Social Acceptability of the Talib & the Talib Ideology !
    cause even this newspaper never try to give TTps spokesperson,s location & our law enforcement agencies never wanted to know too?
     
  12. Thorough Pro

    Thorough Pro ELITE MEMBER

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    Just go to you tube, find thousand of 9/11 vides and explain the blasts, including the blasts in the basements, and tell me again that Taliban planted all those bombs while Bushe's brother's security company guarded the twin towers. You guys are ot only madly biased, but blind and hopelessly empy up there.

    There are thousnads more like these and mind you these are NYFD boys.







     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2013
  13. VCheng

    VCheng ELITE MEMBER

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    Thankfully, there are more people who agree with me than you. :D

    The likes of me will defeat the likes of you. You can count on it.