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Situation is on the brink in Depsang-DBO axis, can Pakistan Army tilt the balance for a common goal

Marker

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I have this sinking feeling that even if China moves, Bajwa and Imran would be sitting like Doves and opportunities would be lost.

Since 27 Feb 19, I had been advocating that Pakistan should have given Indians the bloody nose and should have shot down all 9 jets they say were locked on. And also hit the 6 targets they selected inside Kashmir.

The fact is India attacked Pakistan proper on 26 Feb 19. They attacked with the force they thought was necessary. Due to their incapability the targets were missed. But there was no lack of will on Indian's part.
So why there was lack of will from Pakistani side to respond to Indian aggression!!
Why the response had to be measured and appropriate to the loss Pakistan suffered!!
If it was down to the Indians and their will , they wouldn't have hesitated to kill as many Pakistanis as possible. As a matter of fact until now they have not withdrawn their claims of killing 350+ in their raid.
So why Pakistan dithered!!

@MastanKhan . Therefore, looking at the facts in Feb 19, I have no hopes that Pakistan would be ready to deliver devastating blows to the Indians and take all steps necessary to liberate Kashmir from illegal occupation of India.
Respected member,

We all Pakistanis and Kashmiris are motivated and elevated to give a befitting response to Indian Armed Forces for their injustice, cruelty and tyranny towards people of IJK. We all wanted to liberate these brave but imprisoned people of IJK.

However decision to declare war against a nuclear country is very critical and difficult. Though final declaration of this decision is with PM Imran Khan but it is and must be collective decision. Every political party, all institutes of government, civil and military leadership must give consent because this will not only endanger economical condition and infrastructure of the country but also endanger the precious lives of people of this country.

Every pros and cons are to be considered. Today's war is quite different than past wars. Losing millions of precious lives in seconds is the cruel and harsh reality of nuclear war. By declaring war, our country will already be at risk of high number of civilian casualties.

For this type of risk we have to have consensus.

I am very confident of capabilities of our armed forces and their leadership. They are trained and equipped to take down the enemy very efficiently. But war is also a game of chances and luck. Therefore, we have to prepare ourselves to face the unknown risks during the war.

May Allah grant us and our leaders courage and wisdom to take the best decision for Pakistan and Kashmir. And may Allah lead us to victory. May Allah grant freedom to the people of IJK. Ameen
 
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Wolf

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This is the time. But, we should have built our war endurance which we didn't. However, even then, we need a lot of volunteers and we can have a breakthrough if top brass of ours show some decision power.

In any future conflict, success can't be achieved unless civilian volunteers fight alongside armed forces.
 

Sal12

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You have no right to declare any Military officer or a soldier coward. Gen Bajwa has spent his prime age in the military defending the borders of Pakistan. He and his team mates never relaxed as you do. They are always on duty 24/7.

Sitting in a cozy corner and your fingers striking on the key board and stating COAS of Pakistan Army a coward. In my opinion, you do not deserve to represent Pakistan (if you somehow posses Pakistani citizenship which I doubt) in any International Forum.

Whether he got 3 year extension or otherwise, it is never important. At present he is COAS of Pakistan Army and deserve due respect.

Decision to declare war is the most critical and difficult decision for the leadership.

First of all army chief has no power to declare war, the responsibility lies on the shoulder of chief executive of the country. In Pakistan's case, PM Imran Khan will be the person to take that critical and difficult decision and of course this decision will be made with the consent of all military and civilian leadership.

We in this forum act as think tanks or intellects or opinion holders and that is all. We are not decision makers. The right of this decision only lies with the PM of Pakistan. And let me tell you, Imran Khan is not a coward man and he will not sell Kashmir and Pakistan.
A man is known by his actions and respect is somethings which needs to be earned. Army Chief might be a holy cow for you but not for me. If you are not born today then everyone knows this is Army chief who yields real power in Pakistan.

Also opportunity never comes to the cowards since cowards are always looking for the right time and no time is the right time for the cowards. Mark may words that IK and Bajwa wont do anything in their entire tenure other than releasing statements that Pak will teach enemy a lesson if enemy does any misadventure but these useless statements wont bring any freedom to the people of Kashmir.
 

Marker

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A man is known by his actions and respect is somethings which needs to be earned. Army Chief might be a holy cow for you but not for me. If you are not born today then everyone knows this is Army chief who yields real power in Pakistan.

Also opportunity never comes to the cowards since cowards are always looking for the right time and no time is the right time for the cowards. Mark may words that IK and Bajwa wont do anything in their entire tenure other than releasing statements that Pak will teach enemy a lesson if enemy does any misadventure but these useless statements wont bring any freedom to the people of Kashmir.
What Gen Bajwa did to you, that you react like that? Why you repeatedly stating Gen Bajwa a coward? Do you have any evidence of his cowardice action?

He spent his 40 years in army, undergoing rigorous training, performing various operations inside and outside Pakistan. How can he be declared coward? Just because he is not taking initiative to declare war against India a nuclear state, you cannot judge him as coward. Furthermore, he cannot take this decision by himself neither he can force it through from PM Imran Khan. This is a very critical and most difficult decision which can change the historical course of Pakistan. Due to its importance, the decision will be made with the consent of all civil and military leadership.

Gen Bajwa cannot be a "holy cow" to any Muslim, and I am a proud Pakistani Muslim. Your statement shows that you are very close to Indian culture. Are you an Indian in disguise?

The way you are forcing your opinion in this forum, it appears that you want to steer your opinion with some malicious intentions.
 
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Sal12

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What Gen Bajwa did to you, that you react like that? Why you repeatedly stating Gen Bajwa a coward? Do you have any evidence of his cowardice action?

He spent his 40 years in army, undergoing rigorous training, performing various operations inside and outside Pakistan. How can he be declared coward? Just because he is not taking initiative to declare war against India a nuclear state, you cannot judge him as coward. Furthermore, he cannot take this decision by himself neither he can force it through from PM Imran Khan. This is a very critical and most difficult decision which can change the historical course of Pakistan. Due to its importance, the decision will be made with the consent of all civil and military leadership.

Gen Bajwa cannot be a "holy cow" to any Muslim, and I am a proud Pakistani Muslim. Your statement shows that you are very close to Indian culture. Are you an Indian in disguise?

The way you are forcing your opinion in this forum, it appears that you want to steer your opinion with some malicious intentions.
Bajwa did Not do anything nor he will do anything. Leave aside Kashmir and India.

Zardari did one speech against the army when Gen Raheel was army chief and Zardari left Pak for one and a half year and came back to Pak only after Bajwa became army chief. If Bajwa was army chief in 2016 then MQM would have alive even today. Bajwa even cannot tame PTM. Neither politician nor media could dare to speak against the army the way now every tom dick and harry does now in tenure of Bajwa. This was Bajwa who forced IK to let Nawaz escape from the country and now listen today's Nawaz speech. Actually Bajwa was busy in inquiring health of NS and Shehbaz Sharif. I can count many many examples.

Coming back to Kashmir, India is really in a mess today. Rising Convid cases, 24 % GDP contraction, unemployment, religious divides and then Ladakh where India lost 1000 sq km. India has committed over 200K troops against China in Ladakh and Aurachal Perdesh and there is no way India could bring them to Pak theatre. The same case is with IAF squadrons. I do understand that India has still numerical superiority against the Pak but Pak has to take risk. If PAk army is so weak under the leadership of Bajwa that it cannot take any advantage in this difficult time of India then forget Kashmir. Stop delivering speeches and tell this straight to IOK since no amount of speeches will bring any freedom to Kashmir. Stop this Kashmir Kashmir all the time.
 

Arsalan 345

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China can block access to dbo but this will not happen without a fight and as far as I know, pakistan doesn't have any plans or interest in Kashmir anymore. We don't have interest in siachen as well. It's like accepting new indian aggressive doctrine. Aggressive policy is need of time. Why we can't start this war and take back siachen? Why are we so defensive? Pompeo regularly urge pakistan not to intervene. How long will we continue to follow Americans like a blind man? United States will make India super power. Everything is for sale for India,nothing for pakistan. We aren't even getting any dollars now. I wish that we show courage and take our revenge. Pak military can do it. I am sure we can do it.
Let me tell you one thing. China will not leave even an inch of Indian territory because it's vital for China.
 

Marker

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Coming back to Kashmir, India is really in a mess today. Rising Convid cases, 24 % GDP contraction, unemployment, religious divides and then Ladakh where India lost 1000 sq km. India has committed over 200K troops against China in Ladakh and Aurachal Perdesh and there is no way India could bring them to Pak theatre. The same case is with IAF squadrons. I do understand that India has still numerical superiority against the Pak but Pak has to take risk. If PAk army is so weak under the leadership of Bajwa that it cannot take any advantage in this difficult time of India then forget Kashmir. Stop delivering speeches and tell this straight to IOK since no amount of speeches will bring any freedom to Kashmir. Stop this Kashmir Kashmir all the time.
Yes, opportunity do exist. But still going to war against a nuclear nation whose leadership consist of insane and mentally deranged people, is a very risky issue.

When I say this decision is critical and difficult for the leadership because due to this decision Pakistan will be under high risk of nuclear war. This means lives of millions of innocents civilians both side of border will be at stake.

It is really a big gamble to assume that Indians will not respond with nukes while loosing IJK.

No sane leader will take this responsibility alone. Indians are very unfortunate, because their mentally deranged leadership brought them in a hostile situation where they are forced to face two nuclear countries as their enemies.
 

Ghost 125

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Yes, opportunity do exist. But still going to war against a nuclear nation whose leadership consist of insane and mentally deranged people, is a very risky issue.

When I say this decision is critical and difficult for the leadership because due to this decision Pakistan will be under high risk of nuclear war. This means lives of millions of innocents civilians both side of border will be at stake.

It is really a big gamble to assume that Indians will not respond with nukes while loosing IJK.

No sane leader will take this responsibility alone. Indians are very unfortunate, because their mentally deranged leadership brought them in a hostile situation where they are forced to face two nuclear countries as their enemies.
thanks God our Militry leadership does not listen to PDF Fanboys and warmongers :D
 

HalfMoon

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I have a question .......Lets assume Pakistan and China both have decided to go for full scale war with India to liberate Ladakh Kashmir etc. Indians themselves have said time and again that India alone cannot win a two front war with China and Pakistan combined . Lets assume Western powers and Israel are too busy in their own problems like Covid 19, Elections etc. and cannot come to rescue India . In this situation India is certain to loose and loose Ladakh , Kashmir, and even 7 sister states in the East . In other words India's existence as we know it now will come to an end.

Now comes my question . In a scenario when India is about to loose its existence , can India use its nuclear option on either Pakistan or China or both ??? And if India does it then what can be the response from China / Pakistan ? And ultimate fallout of this ? :what::what::what:

Indian nuke tests failed.

India does not have nukes.
 

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