• Saturday, August 8, 2020

Should we be doing this?

Discussion in 'Pakistan Economy' started by 1Paki$tani, Oct 4, 2019.

  1. 1Paki$tani

    1Paki$tani FULL MEMBER

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    I am against this. Many people here know my opinion about many things in particular about economy. However, I am against this behaviour and posting video online without other person having rights of rebuttal.

    So Why I am against this?


    There are number of reasons which I will list as follows:

    1. Its a Free Market; these people are not running a charity and they have employees and family to feed as well. If one shop, say the guys in the video, is selling it expensive while another one selling it cheaper than go buy it from the one selling it cheaper forcing the expensive person to move the price down.

    Ie supply and demand. If he is not selling his products and they are expiring it might mean he is losing money thus might think about reducing prices to meet the market expectation.

    I support price control on essential goods and vegetable and that about it.

    2. Cost of Business;

    Now many people, especially those with cameras, do not realise this but the reality is people selling these products are running a business. like any person running a business there is general expectation that one must make profit.

    Now people complaining that oh in one city we have two prices. Well so what? It could simply mean the the two sets of shops have different cost base thus they price their product accordingly.

    Less take any example of Islamabad city: If one shop is located in say F-10 Markaz and one shop located in say G-9 Markaz or say G-13 Markaz. The cost of lease alone between two shops will be different and the difference could be many thousands of rupees per month. On top of that there could be cost of employees. For example the shop in G-9 or G-13 might have 1 employee while one in F-10 might have 5 employees. Add to that cost of electricity and other incidental costs.

    There is no rocket science in understanding the difference in price.

    If you are not happy dont buy from here and buy elsewhere but do not post videos like that on Internet and trying to shame people for running a business and employing staff.

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    Though had this been about issue of no compliance with tax regime than I would support it on one simple basis, avoidance of tax is criminal behaviour thus must be exposed. Though the person should provide opportunity to the other person.
     
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  2. crankthatskunk

    crankthatskunk SENIOR MEMBER

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    Oh Boy. You live in Australia according to flags on your nick. I hope when you are talking about "Free Market Economy" and "cost of business", you should also remember that paying taxes on their income is also a " legal requirement" in the countries which have "free markets".

    Is there a "Free Market" in Australia, and the shop keepers can charge whatever they want!!
    can the same traders after charging the prices in a "free market" then withheld their VAT/Sales Taxes they collected from their customers and do not declare and deposit in to the national exchequer!!
    What would "Australian Tax Office" do to such "Free Market Traders" who do not submit their "GST" returns to the ATO and pay the tax due on time!!
    Can an Australian "free market Trader" refuse to pay the due GST, Penalties and Interest charged by ATO!!
    And the Income Tax/Corporation Tax due on their trade incomes!!!

    When you present an argument make sure that you present all aspects of the argument. Thank you.
     
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  3. 1Paki$tani

    1Paki$tani FULL MEMBER

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    Read last bit of my post.

    There are other videos include some of the major outlets about GST, which is fine as avoidance of tax is criminal.

    But doing the same for the fact that one shop is selling a particular item for x amount while other shop is selling that particular item for the y amount is wrong.
     
  4. crankthatskunk

    crankthatskunk SENIOR MEMBER

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    Exactly. Now can you support these innocent "Free Market" traders to refuse to register their business, declaring their sales correctly and paying income tax on their incomes and the GST they charge to the customers back to the Government!!

    I can assure you that the GST correct payments to the government which is not the money of the traders, but what is paid by the customers, can change Pakistani economy to no ends.

    These shopkeepers would be "Criminals" under the "free markets economies" of UK, USA and Australia. Not so honest as you pretend them to be.

    My family member runs shops of "shoes" as "official franchises" in Karachi. He get certain % from the big brand name. On which the taxes are deducted at source. He says for example another shop of the same size, only two/three shops away from his, makes 5 times the sale, as independent and pay "no taxes" at all.
    We are talking sales of "crores" of rupees a month.
    The theft in tax system in Pakistan is "astronomical". I know many many people in Karachi, whose income from their businesses are in "crores" of rupees per months, but they pay Zilch taxes.
    The theft of "GST" is widespread in the traders in Pakistan.
    Despite this fact , they have the gals to go to the COAS regarding their businesses. Here in the UK as well as in Australia, they would be going to the jails.
     
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  5. Genghis khan1

    Genghis khan1 SENIOR MEMBER

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    Agree, he is not the only one selling this product. He is not controlling the supply of the product to raise prices. If you can buy same product at different location for less money than go buy from there. Idiot is crying for price difference. It’s not against the law or Islamic law.
     
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  6. Maxpane

    Maxpane SENIOR MEMBER

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    sir i have a question? can i sell one litre milk in 200 or 300 rupees if the market rate is 100 rupees?
     
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  7. 1Paki$tani

    1Paki$tani FULL MEMBER

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    1. If government has classified it as essential item and fixed sale price than the person selling it is breaching the law hence liable for punishment.

    2. If it is not a price controlled item, than yes the person can ask as much as he wants, but an astute purchaser would recognise the higher price and will purchaser from those selling it cheaper. If the seller has monopoly than it is up to the government sort it out.
     
  8. Yaseen1

    Yaseen1 ELITE MEMBER

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    only best way to stop it is to carryout market survey before buying any products,customers should visit different shops and get information about price of product they want then they should choose to buy from those shops who are selling at lowest or reasonable prices ,this will automatically eliminate such corrupt traders from market
     
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  9. 1Paki$tani

    1Paki$tani FULL MEMBER

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    I agree with you on taxation system and I will support people being called our for not doing their share. I have written on this forum against the business community for having a cry about taxes and with one particular member of this forum.

    However, that is separate matter and I agree entirely with you. If this video was not issuing a property tax invoice in accordance with the tax law than I agree such video should be made and posted, provided other person has been given chance to respond.

    However, prices are not regulated in many countries and same applies to Pakistan other than some essential goods. So should one call out a shop keeper for selling expensive when the buyer can buy cheaper else where.

    Would you not regard it as blackmail in that either give me the product at a discounted rate or else I will make the video and post it online.

    With your family's shop business I can say for certain your prices will be different from other shop keepers, whether by small margin or big margin. Its a choice that your family business makes in terms of selling price. Before that choice is made a decision is made as to cost base for each product which would include cost of goods and other incidental costs of business allocated proportionally to each product based on value than on top of that you will add you margin be it 20 or 30% or what ever amount.
     
  10. Maxpane

    Maxpane SENIOR MEMBER

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    sir why government has to interfere ? its my product and i have the right to sell on whatever the price i want .
     
  11. T|/|T

    T|/|T SENIOR MEMBER

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    The problem in Pakistan is that these shopkeepers allign together and make a mafia and sell things on their own prices. I remember how these mafia goons beat up one shop keeper because he was selling things cheaper and "ruining" their business.

    Price control and regulations are part of every free market. A free market doesn't mean u can do watever the hell u wish.

    This is also unislamic as Islam allows u to earn modestly and not have unfair profits.

    Also this video shows reality and hypocrisy of our society, see his big beard, he will be showing everyone how religious he is and how pious he is, in reality he is a hypocrite crook.
     
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  12. VCheng

    VCheng ELITE MEMBER

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    The real question to ask here is can you find enough buyers at that price to keep your business viable in the presence of competitors in the market?
     
  13. Maxpane

    Maxpane SENIOR MEMBER

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    sir i know that with that price you cant attract customers but i just ask this question in an other perspective because he says that its islamic andd lawful
     
  14. VCheng

    VCheng ELITE MEMBER

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    Letting market forces determine prices is usually what works better than just about any other system out there, without getting into any religious aspects or discussion. Prevention of abusive monopolies and price gouging is part of a fair and open market system, please note, and there are many examples that show how this works in open societies.
     
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  15. Longhorn

    Longhorn FULL MEMBER

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    Yes, but if it is s free open market, other traders will undercut you and you will find that you cannot sell your product. It's how the market works and how it sets prices.
    Where the problem arises is when a) traders horde commodities to create artificial scarcity thereby artificially raising prices and b) when they form cartels to keep prices artificially high.
    Otherwise a trader is well within his rights to price his goods how he wants.