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Should we accept Sweden into NATO?

Should we accept Sweden into NATO?

  • YES - Sweden should gain the trust of other member countries of the union with the steps it will tak

    Votes: 19 46.3%
  • NO - If Sweden is to continue supporting terrorism, it must get along with Russia

    Votes: 24 58.5%

  • Total voters
    41

dBSPL

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Sweden is the country that fears Russia the most. We are talking about a country that built around 40,000 bunkers during the Cold War, mostly because of fear of nuclear attack. This fear is now driving them into the despair of joining NATO. However, they tries to fend off the just demands by trying to develop stupid political discourse, never wanna face their own mistakes and still trying keeping their tail up.

Today, we have read many things accusing and insulting Turkey on Swedish social media and mainstream media, even from representatives of small left parties.

Sweden tries to explain its political interests and irresponsible arrogance with so-called human rights advocacy and liberalism; they accuse us of being an anti-democratic dictatorship. They even try to market Turkey as a pro-Russian, Eurasian, and bigotary country against the european values.

We will get into some details in this thread and I will ask just one question, which writin on title.

*

But first, I would like to make a few reminders to some circles who do not hesitate to slander Turkish values and culture:

How many people know that the basis of Sweden's legendary social welfare state system was a disastrous decades-long campaign of ethnic cleansing. More than 60,000 people in Sweden were victims of a Nazi-style forced sterilization campaign just because their type didn't resemble the Nordic race.

What is the name of sterilizing and extinction of non-purebreds in order to create an 'ideal' society? What kind of thoughts were behind the Institute of Racial Biology, which was established in Sweden in 1921 for the first time in the world, printing posters saying "Ideal northern type"? They explained that the policy followed at that time was to prevent the proliferation of unsuitable generations in order to establish an ideal society. Moreover, among those who support this view, the Nobel Prize-winning social democratic thinker Prof. Gunnar Myrdal and his wife, Nobel Peace Prize winner Alva Myrdal, were also present.


The signature under the circulars sent to the authorities for the measurement of skulls was Tage Erlander, the legendary leader of the Swedish social democrats. In your history books, schoolbooks and encyclopedias, neither how 100,000 people were sterilized written nor the "State Institute of Racial Biology" was written, which was established in Uppsala in 1921, and later Nazi Germany took as an example. European historiography is purely political, lacking in objectivity, and, like Rome writing Carthage, a triumphal quackery.

FSvMxT_WYAEUDhl


Years and years later; Historian Gunnar Broberg's book and Polish journalist Maciej Zaremba's research published in the Dagen Nyheter newspaper dated 19-20 August 1997 revealed Sweden nazism and ethnic cleansing methods.

Nordic countries followed the same line as Sweden. Between 1935 and 1976, approximately 50,000 people in Norway and 6,000 people in Denmark were sterilized. Although it is written that sterilization is optional in the law, it has been seen that repression is used in practice.

FSvNR9oWUAQJTnZ


In 1942, a circular was signed by Tage Erlander to make a census of all gypsies and the mobile workers called "Tattare". Prior to this, a report called the 'non pure race' was prepared about the Tattares in 1937.

Although the opinion that the Tattares could be assimilated gained weight in the evaluation made after the report, the sterilization policy was preferred, and a census and search was started for all their people one by one, because of the fear of the emergence of bad habits in future generations.

FSvNc1BXsAIbqDy

FSvQChgXEAI_Evl


When the skull measurements were completed in 1945, it was revealed that the Tattares were Swedish, but the General Directorate of Social Services did not accept this result. After 1950, when UNESCO opposed the use of the concept of race in a racist sense, the Tattares were called "counter race".

And a large number of Tattares were neutered. According to Maija Runcis, who is a doctoral researcher on sterilization policy, since the law only allows voluntary sterilization, the authorities issued a phony report for the victims chosen by the authorities as "mentally unstable".

Documents available show that 95 percent of those sterilized are women. Those who were admitted to the school for the handicapped were also threatened with the worst conditions throughout their lives if they did not agree to be sterilized at the end of school.

The increase in sterilization in the 1940s was partly due to the fact that child assistance would be introduced in accordance with the principles of the welfare state in the following years. Gunnar Myrdal, who wanted to point out that those who do not contribute to the welfare society should not benefit from the assistances, warned that “Child aid may lead to an increase in those with bad hereditary characteristics” at that time.

A record was broken with 2264 sterilization operations in 1948, when child aid began, because people with undesirable characteristics were feared to give birth incessantly to benefit from child assistance. The sterilization operations based on the logic of 'Let the undeserving perish' actually lasted until the mid-1960s.

The eugenics, which began quietly in 1935, was quietly ended in 1976 when the law was repealed. The sterilization policy was tried to be explained by the "breeding" winds that blew all over the world in the 1930s, but research shows that this is not so.

Although purging of incompetent society was discussed in many European states, few states practiced it. And these policies were led by Sweden and Norway.

The real shocking truth: While sterilization was applied only for the mentally ill and during the Nazi era in Germany, in the northern countries under the hegemony of the social democrats, people who were seen as a hindrance in the establishment of the welfare state were chosen as victims. They built their society on a terrible form of racism.

The fact that sterilization laws were passed unanimously in the Swedish parliament, and the church allowed it, is also a point to consider. Lifting the veil over recent history has also revealed the hypocrisy of politicians.

In 1997, the Minister of Social Security, Margot Wallström, stated that she was deeply saddened by the events and would take the matter to the government for compensation, after the incident had a wide repercussions and a woman who was one of the victims of the sterilization policy announced that her application to the government for compensation was rejected.

At the bottom of the letter sent to the woman was this minister's signature and stated that compensation would not be paid as the practice was done in accordance with the law.

(I would like to thank journalist Mithat Alaban for his article and photos they share which used as a source, this part of post.)

***

Today, Sweden still continues to ignore other people's lives for its own interests, openly support terrorism in other countries and try to explain all this with so-called human rights and liberalism. They are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people in Turkey.


Here is a brief summary of the current situation from another thread:

Although Finland does not directly recognize the PKK as a terrorist organization, it is among the countries that recognize it as a terrorist organization due to EU decisions. Except for some individual PKK/PYD support, the country does not give open support directly. There is only one step the Finnish parliament has to take to join NATO.

*

BUT Sweden is among the biggest supporters of PKK/PYD and anti-Turkey projects. There has been distrust between Sweden and Turkey for many years due to their support policies for the PKK and its Syrian extension PYD/YPG. The politicians in Sweden, the proposals to remove the PKK from the EU list of terrorist organizations, the increasing activities of the PKK in Sweden, the support of personnel and financing efforts and the open support of the ministers have caused great wounds between the two countries. Sweden, which became the final destination of the PKK supporters due to the magazines Kurmanji and Sorani published by the Kurdish diaspora in the 1980s, which are established by PKK. The Swedish judiciary never considers extraditions requests. It is one of the few countries within the EU region that has become a safe haven for terrorists.

The support given to the PKK for many years continues with support to the PYD-YPG. The PKK is able to form a mass, manages financing, recruiting militants, lobbying and propaganda activities through culture-language themed associations. Within the scope of its lobbying activities, the PKK is intertwined with political groups, parties and non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in Sweden. Swedish politicians do not hesitate to openly advocate the PKK's policies.

The Kurdish Businessmen's Association, which was established by the PKK in the Netherlands in 2001 for the purpose of laundering illegal money and drug revenues in EU countries, provides ammunition and logistics support to PKK terror camps, while 8 companies in Sweden are affiliated with KARSAZ, publicly and secretly. It is known that they carries out various illegal activities on behalf of the terrorist organization. Sweden ranks 3rd among EU countries sending foreign terrorist fighters to the PKK/PYD. PKK targets schools in Sweden to recruit militants and sympathizers. This is proven by the 1998 report of the Radda Barnen Foundation, which organizes international child protection programs. Sweden had recently come to the fore with the minister's meetings and statements of support, where they accepted the PYD-YPG terrorists.

Swedish organizations are of great importance for the PKK's Belgium-based EU structure. Among the PKK/PYD-YPG's NGO structures in Sweden; There are the Swedish Kurdish Council and its additional organization, the Swedish Democratic Kurdish Community Centre, the Swedish Kurdish Cultural Association, the Kurdistan Free Life Party, the PYD-Swedish Free Youth Movement, and the Rojava Committee. They openly continues to develop actions involving PYD/PKK propaganda.

PKK/PYD-YPG terrorist elements also receive financial support through their so-called TV channels in EU member countries where they operate through their NGO named "Rojava Solidarity". While it was revealed that approximately 3.5 million Euros were obtained by cutting the salaries of the employees of the so-called TV channels of the terrorist organization in Sweden between 2005 and 2017, there are also restaurants in the selected EU countries that the PKK manages and imposes mandatory "tribute" is known.

Within the media structure of the PKK, which started with the establishment of the Kurdish Media Foundation in Sweden in 1997, 4 media organs, including Aryen TV and Rohani TV, still carry out their activities. Sweden, which has provided 210 million dollars of support to the PYD/YPG so far, is planned to increase this support to 376 million dollars by 2023.

These countries also provide defense support to the PKK/PYD-YPG. The so-called Kurdistan Red Crescent, which is tasked with finding financial resources for the PKK's NGO structures, especially for the organization's extensions in Turkey, Iraq and Syria, operates in Sweden and is estimated to collect 50 million Euros annually under the name of donations in European countries.

***

In the face of this legitimate demand of Turkey, it is possible to see the typical European populism and orientalist arrogance, which cannot say a word to their country's supporter of terrorism, even under this title.



The real question is: Should we take Sweden, which has such a fascist and racist past, into NATO? Or should we not? Or is it worth sacrificing our Turkish soldiers, our Mehmetçik, to protect Sweden and their welfare?
 
Last edited:

MeFishToo

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Exactly how do these arguments differ from russian propaganda towards Ukraine? If this is how the majority in Turkey think of northern europe, I think its time we seperate for good. No need to pretend we have anything in common.
 

vi-va

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Sweden and NATO want to make an alliance, no one can stop it.

Fact:
Turkey can veto, but those countries will work around the sabotage.
 

Chat SAMOSA

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Sweden is the country that fears Russia the most. We are talking about a country that built around 40,000 bunkers during the Cold War, mostly because of fear of nuclear attack. This fear is now driving them into the despair of joining NATO. However, they tries to fend off the just demands by trying to develop stupid political discourse, never wanna face their own mistakes and still trying keeping their tail up.

Today, we have read many things accusing and insulting Turkey on Swedish social media and mainstream media, even from representatives of small left parties.

Sweden tries to explain its political interests and irresponsible arrogance with so-called human rights advocacy and liberalism; they accuse us of being an anti-democratic dictatorship. They even try to market Turkey as a pro-Russian, Eurasian, and bigotary country against the european values.

We will get into some details in this thread and I will ask just one question, which writin on title.

*

But first, I would like to make a few reminders to some circles who do not hesitate to slander Turkish values and culture:

How many people know that the basis of Sweden's legendary social welfare state system was a disastrous decades-long campaign of ethnic cleansing. More than 60,000 people in Sweden were victims of a Nazi-style forced sterilization campaign just because their type didn't resemble the Nordic race.

What is the name of sterilizing and extinction of non-purebreds in order to create an 'ideal' society? What kind of thoughts were behind the Institute of Racial Biology, which was established in Sweden in 1921 for the first time in the world, printing posters saying "Ideal northern type"? They explained that the policy followed at that time was to prevent the proliferation of unsuitable generations in order to establish an ideal society. Moreover, among those who support this view, the Nobel Prize-winning social democratic thinker Prof. Gunnar Myrdal and his wife, Nobel Peace Prize winner Alva Myrdal, were also present.


The signature under the circulars sent to the authorities for the measurement of skulls was Tage Erlander, the legendary leader of the Swedish social democrats. In your history books, schoolbooks and encyclopedias, neither how 100,000 people were sterilized written nor the "State Institute of Racial Biology" was written, which was established in Uppsala in 1921, and later Nazi Germany took as an example. European historiography is purely political, lacking in objectivity, and, like Rome writing Carthage, a triumphal quackery.

FSvMxT_WYAEUDhl


Years and years later; Historian Gunnar Broberg's book and Polish journalist Maciej Zaremba's research published in the Dagen Nyheter newspaper dated 19-20 August 1997 revealed Sweden nazism and ethnic cleansing methods.

Nordic countries followed the same line as Sweden. Between 1935 and 1976, approximately 50,000 people in Norway and 6,000 people in Denmark were sterilized. Although it is written that sterilization is optional in the law, it has been seen that repression is used in practice.

FSvNR9oWUAQJTnZ


In 1942, a circular was signed by Tage Erlander to make a census of all gypsies and the mobile workers called "Tattare". Prior to this, a report called the 'non pure race' was prepared about the Tattares in 1937.

Although the opinion that the Tattares could be assimilated gained weight in the evaluation made after the report, the sterilization policy was preferred, and a census and search was started for all their people one by one, because of the fear of the emergence of bad habits in future generations.

FSvNc1BXsAIbqDy

FSvQChgXEAI_Evl


When the skull measurements were completed in 1945, it was revealed that the Tattares were Swedish, but the General Directorate of Social Services did not accept this result. After 1950, when UNESCO opposed the use of the concept of race in a racist sense, the Tattares were called "counter race".

And a large number of Tattares were neutered. According to Maija Runcis, who is a doctoral researcher on sterilization policy, since the law only allows voluntary sterilization, the authorities issued a phony report for the victims chosen by the authorities as "mentally unstable".

Documents available show that 95 percent of those sterilized are women. Those who were admitted to the school for the handicapped were also threatened with the worst conditions throughout their lives if they did not agree to be sterilized at the end of school.

The increase in sterilization in the 1940s was partly due to the fact that child assistance would be introduced in accordance with the principles of the welfare state in the following years. Gunnar Myrdal, who wanted to point out that those who do not contribute to the welfare society should not benefit from the assistances, warned that “Child aid may lead to an increase in those with bad hereditary characteristics” at that time.

A record was broken with 2264 sterilization operations in 1948, when child aid began, because people with undesirable characteristics were feared to give birth incessantly to benefit from child assistance. The sterilization operations based on the logic of 'Let the undeserving perish' actually lasted until the mid-1960s.

The eugenics, which began quietly in 1935, was quietly ended in 1976 when the law was repealed. The sterilization policy was tried to be explained by the "breeding" winds that blew all over the world in the 1930s, but research shows that this is not so.

Although purging of incompetent society was discussed in many European states, few states practiced it. And these policies were led by Sweden and Norway.

The real shocking truth: While sterilization was applied only for the mentally ill and during the Nazi era in Germany, in the northern countries under the hegemony of the social democrats, people who were seen as a hindrance in the establishment of the welfare state were chosen as victims. They built their society on a terrible form of racism.

The fact that sterilization laws were passed unanimously in the Swedish parliament, and the church allowed it, is also a point to consider. Lifting the veil over recent history has also revealed the hypocrisy of politicians.

In 1997, the Minister of Social Security, Margot Wallström, stated that she was deeply saddened by the events and would take the matter to the government for compensation, after the incident had a wide repercussions and a woman who was one of the victims of the sterilization policy announced that her application to the government for compensation was rejected.

At the bottom of the letter sent to the woman was this minister's signature and stated that compensation would not be paid as the practice was done in accordance with the law.

(I would like to thank journalist Mithat Alaban for his article and photos they share which used as a source, this part of post.)

***

Today, Sweden still continues to ignore other people's lives for its own interests, openly support terrorism in other countries and try to explain all this with so-called human rights and liberalism. They are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people in Turkey.


Here is a brief summary of the current situation from another thread:





The real question is: Should we take Sweden, which has such a fascist and racist past, into NATO? Or should we not? Or is it worth sacrificing our Turkish soldiers, our Mehmetçik, to protect Sweden and their welfare?
Good lesson in history. Like the slavery in USA, colonization and international thievery by the British, crusades of Europeans, Islamization of Asia by Middle Easterners, coolonizations of China by Hans, Hitler holocaust, and numerous other atrocities the one thing that becomes cleaer is we don't live up to the sapient part of our race!
 

jamahir

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@dBSPL, why are you bothered anyway ? You have told me in the Ukraine operation thread that you don't support NATO.

Good lesson in history. Like the slavery in USA, colonization and international thievery by the British, crusades of Europeans, Islamization of Asia by Middle Easterners, coolonizations of China by Hans, Hitler holocaust, and numerous other atrocities the one thing that becomes cleaer is we don't live up to the sapient part of our race!

As against the Hindutvization of India which is the most intellectual and evolved event in human history ? :rofl:
 

jhungary

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It's not changing much whether or not Turkey veto Sweden Membership.

What Sweden want is not exactly the same as what most NATO member wants, or what Finland want, the Swede joining NATO is a simple way of having US, UK or France to protect Sweden, which make it less likely to attack by Russia. Had Russia attack Sweden, set aside a seaborne invasion, there are no way to invade Sweden via land without go thru Finland or Norway first. Which mean the Swede is looking at NATO member that have strong Navy and Airforce to protect its border. Mainly the US. They also wanted Nuclear Umbrella in case of Russian using Tactical Nuke on Sweden. That's why Sweden effectively just look at US, UK and France.

So what if Sweden NATO bid being Vetoed? Not much would happen as long as US and France are willing to sign individual defence pact with Sweden (UK already did), I don't know how France work, but for US, US have multiple way to form security pact with Sweden, they can either go a non-binding security agreement similar to ANZUS pact, which allow station of US troop and ship in Sweden. (The current ANZUS pact allow US to permanently rotate 2 Marine Regiment to Northern Territories and free access to all Australian port to US Ship vice versa to US.)

Or the US can go for a binding Military Pact with Permanent Station of Troop in Sweden like the one the US have with Japan. All it needed is a bill that pass thru Congress and Senate. Which IIRC they had the number to do it now.

On the other hand, Sweden being a powerhouse of Military Technology (Saab is one of the most advance fighter aircraft manufacturer, Bofor and Carl Gustav weapon usually top export chart. Which mean NATO would gain a lot more combat power and combat technology if Sweden is allowed to NATO.

In my Opinion, I don't think Erdogan will say no to Sweden Membership, because that would increasingly isolate Turkey within NATO, more or less to a point Turkey could be risked being left behind in the organisation, or even the west would go very far to ditch NATO and form a new defensive alliance to include Sweden and Finland (Not likely this will happen but this is a possibility) and conventional wisdom would suggest the West would more incline to choose Sweden and Finland over Turkey if it have to choose between a single entity. Which make Turkey position not as good as it could be to veto the deal.

On the other hand, one thing I have heard from US a few days ago is that there are some people within the Capitol called for suspension of Turkey NATO membership if Turkey is going to veto or "sabotage" the vote. While there are no mechanism to remove a member from NATO, and after a quick discussion with my wife (Who is an international lawyer, coincidentally also Swedish) she said NATO does not have a mechanism to remove a member does not mean they cannot be removed. According to Article 60 of Vienna convention regarding Law of Treaties, member within a treaty can vote to remove a member if it had breach the contractual obligation of said treaties with a unanimous vote, so it would not be far fetch to say if Turkey did not contribute 2% of its GDP on defence (as a part of NATO obligation) other country can remove Turkey if they all voted to. But, that's just one lawyer opinion, I would take this with a grain of salt as this is not legally challenged.
 
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KAL-EL

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If Sweden wants to join NATO, that's its prerogative and no one else's.

Irregardless of whether people accept it or not.
 

WotTen

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Good lesson in history. Like the slavery in USA, colonization and international thievery by the British, crusades of Europeans, Islamization of Asia by Middle Easterners, coolonizations of China by Hans, Hitler holocaust, and numerous other atrocities the one thing that becomes cleaer is we don't live up to the sapient part of our race!

You polluted this thread and wrote that entire irrelevant post just for the bolded part. Your Hindutva fanatical ancestors wiped out Buddhism from its birthplace in India. Why not add that to your list?
 

Chat SAMOSA

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You polluted this thread and wrote that entire irrelevant post just for the bolded part. Your Hindutva fanatical ancestors wiped out Buddhism from its birthplace in India. Why not add that to your list?
If that's what bothered you, wouldn't it better serve your purpose to ask that the part you bolded be removed?

Commit atrocity upon my intellect and oppress my human rights. That is about me but the whole world knows what they did to others.
Oh, that explains. Sorry to hear that.
 

Broccoli

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You say that while supporting Ukrainian Nazis. :rofl:

If you agree with Russian arguments then we can also conclude that India isn't an real nation nor are Indians really independent people and whole place with it's population actually belongs to Great Britain. After all India was the Crown Jewel.

Indian independence was a historical mistake, right?
 

jamahir

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If you agree with Russian arguments then we can also conclude that India isn't an real nation nor are Indians really independent people and whole place with it's population actually belongs to Great Britain. After all India was the Crown Jewel.

Indian independence was a historical mistake, right?

Thing is, while India's first prime minister Nehru and the first law minister Ambedkar were progressive people - Ambedkar especially - India would not have seen a withdrawal of the British ( Great in what way, LOL ? ) is the Indian Communists and Socialists had been more prominent than Nehru's Congress party. This is like Afghanistan where NATO left the Taliban in charge but NATO wouldn't have gone if it was the leftists like the Solidarity Party of Afghanistan which would have a chance of taking governance.

Please read this - the "Meerut Conspiracy Case" - started by the British colonial government of India against the Communists :
The British government was clearly worried about the growing influence of the Communist International. It was also thoroughly convinced that all infiltration of communist and socialist ideas was propagated to the workers by the Communist Party of India (CPI). Its ultimate objective, the government perceived, was to achieve "complete paralysis and overthrow of existing Governments in every country (including India) by means of a general strike and armed uprising".[2] The government's immediate response was to foist yet another conspiracy case, the Meerut Conspiracy Case.
93 years later in India the current right-wing Modi government continues the war against the Communists in armed and other ways. From Indian government's participation in the Korea War in 1950 alongside the NATO side, the so-called UN alliance, fighting against the Communist alliance of North Korea, USSR and then China, to now last year in 2021 the tragic death of the Parkinsons-suffering Father Stan Swamy imprisoned on charges of being part of the Communist guerrillas called the Naxals, "Independent" India has always been in the Western bloc including by co-founding the Non Aligned Movement which was just desiring to be part of Western bloc but by other means.
 

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