What's new

Should The Pakistan Navy build a Mobile Base Ship?

FuturePAF

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 17, 2014
2,861
17
3,423
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
The Outgoing Naval Chief’s farewell speech laid out the new force structure of the Future navy, but it raised a number of key questions.

The navy looks like it wants to become a true blue water force, but the issue of building the capability to operate in contested waters, even within our EEZ could still be in doubt, as the adversary looks to be building a 200 ship navy.

Chief amongst the adversaries capabilities will be a large Attack submarine fleet. From the admiral’s speech, we can expect the acquisition of many more manned MPA and UAV based MPA, but that Can still leave the ships with limited availability of protection from enemy subs and over the horizon information on enemy surface vessels as well.

One option to address this short coming and not acquire LHD is building “Mobile Naval bases” In our own shipyards, on the design of our fleet replenishment tankers. These ships can be equipped with flight decks and hanger space to host a decent number of Large ASW and AEW helicopters or even Large VTOL UAVs for ASW and AEW (saving us from needing to redesign any destroyer or frigates we may acquire), and with the use of cranes on the side can also house UUVs, Midget Subs, Resupply FACs and submarines at sea, the list goes on.

With a ship like this, the navy would have a dedicated platform to complement the AAW capabilities of a destroyer and the ASW towed sonar capabilities of a dedicated ASW Frigate or Corvette, all without having to build or buy a full LHD. If the costs are reasonable, each of the three major naval bases, could have a ship like this, and the threat of enemy Submarines, Surface ships, and Aircraft would have been mitigated significantly.

Our newest fleet tanker at 17,000 tons

A design planned for not that different missions by the US marines.
 

PAR 5

FULL MEMBER
Apr 13, 2016
491
915
1,950
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
بھائ میرے، آپکے دماغ میں ایسے بھونڈے خیالات کہہاں سے جنم لیتے ہیں
 
Last edited:

TheSnakeEatingMarkhur

FULL MEMBER
Dec 26, 2018
469
0
412
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
The Outgoing Naval Chief’s farewell speech laid out the new force structure of the Future navy, but it raised a number of key questions.

The navy looks like it wants to become a true blue water force, but the issue of building the capability to operate in contested waters, even within our EEZ could still be in doubt, as the adversary looks to be building a 200 ship navy.

Chief amongst the adversaries capabilities will be a large Attack submarine fleet. From the admiral’s speech, we can expect the acquisition of many more manned MPA and UAV based MPA, but that Can still leave the ships with limited availability of protection from enemy subs and over the horizon information on enemy surface vessels as well.

One option to address this short coming and not acquire LHD is building “Mobile Naval bases” In our own shipyards, on the design of our fleet replenishment tankers. These ships can be equipped with flight decks and hanger space to host a decent number of Large ASW and AEW helicopters or even Large VTOL UAVs for ASW and AEW (saving us from needing to redesign any destroyer or frigates we may acquire), and with the use of cranes on the side can also house UUVs, Midget Subs, Resupply FACs and submarines at sea, the list goes on.

With a ship like this, the navy would have a dedicated platform to complement the AAW capabilities of a destroyer and the ASW towed sonar capabilities of a dedicated ASW Frigate or Corvette, all without having to build or buy a full LHD. If the costs are reasonable, each of the three major naval bases, could have a ship like this, and the threat of enemy Submarines, Surface ships, and Aircraft would have been mitigated significantly.

Our newest fleet tanker at 17,000 tons

A design planned for not that different missions by the US marines.
Not only that we need Litoral Combat Ships aswell which can provide a platform for Mobile Naval Bases
 

FuturePAF

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 17, 2014
2,861
17
3,423
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
بھائ میرے، آپکے دماغ میں ایسے بھونڈے خیالات کہہاں سے جنم لیتے ہیں
By looking at the threats the enemy is building and thinking of ways to counter it. Especially if others have already have a proven solution, at a modest cost to make it sustainable.
Not only that we need Litoral Combat Ships aswell which can provide a platform for Mobile Naval Bases
The fleet replenishment ships would have a platform built upon it to be the “Mobile Naval Base”.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 22, 2016
4,791
51
16,868
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
The Outgoing Naval Chief’s farewell speech laid out the new force structure of the Future navy, but it raised a number of key questions.

The navy looks like it wants to become a true blue water force, but the issue of building the capability to operate in contested waters, even within our EEZ could still be in doubt, as the adversary looks to be building a 200 ship navy.

Chief amongst the adversaries capabilities will be a large Attack submarine fleet. From the admiral’s speech, we can expect the acquisition of many more manned MPA and UAV based MPA, but that Can still leave the ships with limited availability of protection from enemy subs and over the horizon information on enemy surface vessels as well.

One option to address this short coming and not acquire LHD is building “Mobile Naval bases” In our own shipyards, on the design of our fleet replenishment tankers. These ships can be equipped with flight decks and hanger space to host a decent number of Large ASW and AEW helicopters or even Large VTOL UAVs for ASW and AEW (saving us from needing to redesign any destroyer or frigates we may acquire), and with the use of cranes on the side can also house UUVs, Midget Subs, Resupply FACs and submarines at sea, the list goes on.

With a ship like this, the navy would have a dedicated platform to complement the AAW capabilities of a destroyer and the ASW towed sonar capabilities of a dedicated ASW Frigate or Corvette, all without having to build or buy a full LHD. If the costs are reasonable, each of the three major naval bases, could have a ship like this, and the threat of enemy Submarines, Surface ships, and Aircraft would have been mitigated significantly.

Our newest fleet tanker at 17,000 tons

A design planned for not that different missions by the US marines.
It's an interesting idea, but bear in mind, a ship is always a long-term investment. Basically, a Mobile Naval Base may be useful for 5-10 years, but it's a cost we'll have to eat for 20-30 years, if not longer. In this case, why not move straight ahead to the LHD and get more mileage out of it?
 

FuturePAF

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 17, 2014
2,861
17
3,423
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
It's an interesting idea, but bear in mind, a ship is always a long-term investment. Basically, a Mobile Naval Base may be useful for 5-10 years, but it's a cost we'll have to eat for 20-30 years, if not longer. In this case, why not move straight ahead to the LHD and get more mileage out of it?
Sure. I agree a cost benefit analysis should be done, and if a LHD amortized over the 20-30 year life cycle is cheaper, it’s the best way to go.

BTW, why do you think a Mobile naval base would only be good for 5-10 years? It would be a new purpose built vessel, but without all the bells and whistles of an LHD. I could see the LHD being more nessecary if Pakistan plans to operate far from its EEZ/Shores, where there would be land based maintenance facilities. Otherwise, the ship would patrol with a portion of the fleet, providing AEW and ASW cover in conjunction with the MPAs and UAVs. Filling in the gaps of the land based assets.
 

Bilal Khan (Quwa)

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 22, 2016
4,791
51
16,868
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
Sure. I agree a cost benefit analysis should be done, and if a LHD amortized over the 20-30 year life cycle is cheaper, it’s the best way to go.

BTW, why do you think a Mobile naval base would only be good for 5-10 years? It would be a new purpose built vessel, but without all the bells and whistles of an LHD. I could see the LHD being more nessecary if Pakistan plans to operate far from its EEZ/Shores, where there would be land based maintenance facilities. Otherwise, the ship would patrol with a portion of the fleet, providing AEW and ASW cover in conjunction with the MPAs and UAVs. Filling in the gaps of the land based assets.
Well, it looks like a solution you'd have in lieu of an LHD. I was just wondering ... what happens if we can get an LHD, but we already have Mobile Naval Bases? It'd be a situation where we have solutions that did the job for 5-10 years, but now, there's a better option, yet we still need to amortize the less ideal system.

IMHO, we should channel those resources into an LHD project right from the onset.

OTOH, if you are referring to the idea of an upgraded/expanded-role tanker, then I like that approach. Even if the expeditionary/amphibious element is not needed, we can still use those ships to support blue water task forces.
 

FuturePAF

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 17, 2014
2,861
17
3,423
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Well, it looks like a solution you'd have in lieu of an LHD. I was just wondering ... what happens if we can get an LHD, but we already have Mobile Naval Bases? It'd be a situation where we have solutions that did the job for 5-10 years, but now, there's a better option, yet we still need to amortize the less ideal system.

IMHO, we should channel those resources into an LHD project right from the onset.

OTOH, if you are referring to the idea of an upgraded/expanded-role tanker, then I like that approach. Even if the expeditionary/amphibious element is not needed, we can still use those ships to support blue water task forces.
Im referring to the later. Primarily a tanker with the deck build on it for the time being. If down the line we can afford or need the full capabilities of the LHD, then we can acquire it and the tanker goes back to being just a tanker. Should we find we need the services of multiple LHD, it can only afford one, we can keep this to serve as an auxiliary helicopter carrier and tanker.

The US is building LHDs but also plan to have many of these tanker / naval sea base ships. Sitting a 100 miles off shore, they are envisioned to allow small marine expeditionary forces to have a presence without the large signature of a larger LHD. The US marines want a minimum of 38 of these if not the full 50 they are requesting from Congress.

For Pakistan, they would allow for the minimum footprint to fill in the ASW and AEW gaps with helicopters when the land based assets have to Return to base.

Here is what the full US marine version would look like, but imagine this with the 17,000 Ton tanker the PN just build; this concept would be adapted to fit our needs and retain the tanker functions to support the destroyers and frigates operating in the task force.


couple this concept with Unmanned ASW helicopter drones And larger manned AEW helicopters like the Z-18J

 
Last edited:

CrazyZ

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 3, 2019
2,809
3
3,365
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
At this point PN surface fleet should focus on making the Northern Arabian sea into a defensive bastion with support from land based aircraft and missile launchers.
 
Last edited:

313ghazi

SENIOR MEMBER
Mar 14, 2017
7,622
35
14,713
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
What benefit does a ship like this provide? Why are helicopters so useful to the Navy? And won't this ship need a lot of protection?
 

Aamir Hussain

PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Jan 28, 2007
1,878
23
3,166
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Naval Berthing facilities in Oman for India are a real headache for PN. In both previous wars, Indian Navy tried to intercept Pakistan bound merchant ships in North western Arabian Sea when they did not have such berthing facilities. Now this will turn out be a logistics advantage for IN

This is one of the reasons that we went from a roughly aligned two task group force to three with the increase in major surface vessels. I for one firmly believe we should put together another surface task group and base it around Djibouti to intercept India bound merchant vessels and draw away IN Ships from Pakistani waters.
 

FuturePAF

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 17, 2014
2,861
17
3,423
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
The type of drone that may work best with this mobile basing ship would be a tilt rotor uav

something like the following with its various mission pods that can be attached underneath depending on the threat

 

FuturePAF

SENIOR MEMBER
Dec 17, 2014
2,861
17
3,423
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
What benefit does a ship like this provide? Why are helicopters so useful to the Navy? And won't this ship need a lot of protection?
This ship would be used as part of a task force of frigates/corvettes and destroyers. It take the burden off the Air Force and land based assets to provide 24/7 protection from enemy submarines and to provide over the horizon AEW coverage. An enemy can wait until our AEW coverage moves out of range and sneak in a surprise barrage of cruise missiles at our task force. With a ship like this, when the Erieye is moving out of range, AEW helicopter or UAV would take up a patrol orbit, preventing any break in surveillance.

Equally as important, MPA (turboprop and jet powered) can only loiter for so long and may not be in the area around the task force providing protection from enemy Submarine attack. This ship allows many ASW helicopters and ASW UAVs to be available for constant coverage. Along with a SOSUS net in our EEZ and surface drones providing active sonar noise, the ASW helicopter/UAV can have passive sensors to listen for the reflections and locate any hostile Undersea contacts.

This should would basically just be our current 17,000 tanker design with a deck on top and a few hangers. It could also be used as the task force’s tanker.

This is just an idea to get the most out our assets, and fill gaps in the most efficient means possible. To clarify, this would not stay stationary, but move with the fleet like a mini-LHD without the amphibious capabilities.

It would be more akin to RFA Argus
At this point PN surface fleet should focus on making the Northern Arabian sea into a defensive bastion with support from land based aircraft and missile launchers.
A North Arabian Sea bastion is a must to Pakistani Naval security. Hopefully, the PLA Navy re-enforces their bade in Djibouti with a decent sized force to support the Pakistan Navy in ASW and AEW, to keep the SLOCs open, but securing our EEZ ourselves is a must for our defense.

This support ship/flight deck/tanker is to fill the gaps that the land based assets will inevitably have when the my need to return to base and before the next land based asset can take its place. With the use of Helicopters and UAVs, the PN could, IMHO, do it more economically and have a force that is available 24/7, right there with the task force.

The PN has three major naval bases, from which ships will be launched, and we not always have enough land based assets to protect them all. This idea was about modifying the tanker that will go with the fleet anyway, to also have a deck to launch and recover helicopters and UAVs and prevent the need for destroyers and frigates to be burdened with multiple helicopter operations each. Why not coordinate the efforts from one deck and one command post to protect the whole task force efficiently.

P.S. There maybe another solution. Buying a mini LHD/LPD from one of our reliable allies. Instead of an Ad-Hoc design on top of a tanker, we could get a small LHD that could serve the needs of the Marines, SSGN (deployment and recover of midget subs from the well deck), and Navy (deploying UUVs). IMHO, the Turkish design offers the most promise; a stealthy deign well could build after the ToT for the tanker and the future Jinnah Class Frigates.

 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Top