• Monday, December 17, 2018

Should Pakistan recognize Israel?

Discussion in 'Strategic & Foreign Affairs' started by A1Kaid, May 26, 2009.

  1. Yes

    32.0%
  2. No

    49.3%
  3. Maybe -Under Certain Conditions

    16.7%
  4. Undecided

    2.0%
  1. A1Kaid

    A1Kaid PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Fair point settlement expansion is an illegal and very flammable act by the "State of Israel" which leads to further violence and disruption to peace.


    Another problem is, Israel, is a very intrusive entity that violates the waterways, airspace, and territorial integrity of it's neighbors quite often, they simply have no recognition or respect of others sovereignty.

    They say they have pulled out of Gaza, but they have set up many checkpoints in West Bank & Gaza that deliberately shutdown day-to-day life and mobility to a near halt. This creates major headaches, embarrassing check point searches and long waits, even in the case of an emergency. They regularly shoot at people's tires and cars...


    They also engage in "collective punishment" where they prevent the import of petroleum from entering Gaza, and the petroleum is also used at the Power Plants, and when the Power Plants cannot function people live without electricity. Israel also blockades food, aid, and other goods to Gaza quite often.


    So the problem isn't just "settlement expansion", it's also checkpoints, Israeli violations of others air, water, and territorial integrity and sovereignty, and it's overall sheer oppression and brutal rule over the conquered people of Gaza and West Bank.


    Yallah!



    Here are some pictures below of Israeli checkpoints in Gaza & West Bank.




    Take a look at this map, it indicates how many and where Israeli checkpoints are.


    a06ceaa09053413f4b869535c1589dea.jpg


    http://www.pcdc.edu.ps/image_017.jpg


    http://www.imemc.org/attachments/sep2008/child_at_a_checkpoint.jpg


    http://www.palestinemonitor.org/spip/local/cache-vignettes/L448xH299/Palestinian_child_as_human_shield-4a6b7.jpg
    Israeli soldiers, use Palestinian boy as a shield.
     
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  2. AirforcePilot

    AirforcePilot BANNED

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    What about the innocent Israeli men, woman and children killed by the Palestinian suicide bombers? Both sides has a lot of blood on their hands.
     
  3. Durran3

    Durran3 FULL MEMBER

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    I completly agree with what you said but you are just looking at it from one point of view and there is no denying of the facts you've presented aswell but there are certain things you need to look into.

    Why would a party with a militant wing so hell bent on the destruction of Israel – when they are already bleeding as it is and its obvious that the only way for Palestinians to live anything close to a normal life would be extensive talks with Israel – continually gain support is beyond me, here i am talking about Hamas, who are solely resonposble for so many deaths in Palestine from the absolutely ridiculous decisions they make.

    Fatah atleast presents a realitic approach even though they are just slightly better than Hamas when it comes to diplomacy. You honestly think Israel is going to give Hamas and the palestinians the lands they've occupied back by throwing in a bunch of wussy rockets? A Nation of people who went through the Holocaust and still bear the marks of it will give up to a bunch of loolah's throwing rpg rockets at them?

    Now as far as human shields is concerned, there will be casualties considering how dense the population of Gaza is. Israel was WAY out of proportion with its recent attacks but they have every right to defend themselves just like Pakistan has every right to defend it self from Terrorists. Just like the Pakistani Taliban use Human shields and hide in houses where local people live Israel faces the same problems with Hamas. What would Isael do if you have 5 influental Hamas folks in a house or hospital full of civilians? What would the Pakistan Army do if they found 7 or 8 Taliban fighters in a civilian hous? For Pakistan its even a harder decision since they will be hurting their own civilians, where as Israel would put its soliders first than the civilians of another country. These are tough decisions for any military army who is dealing with Counter insurgency and will obviously take crticism and heat.

    I agree with your point again on violations from israel when it comes to Airspace, water and all the basic needs. Israel has an extraordinary balance of power shift towards itself. Regarding the Palestinian question, it’s not even fair how lopsided the balance is.

    What do we do than? What should the Palestinians do in this regards clearly the LAST thing you want to do is Provoke Israel again!!

    1) Wait for Israel to actually become soft? Wait for them to grow a conscience and start feeling sorry for Palestine? You and I both know that won't happen simply because of the fact that Israel is surrounded by a bunch of lolnations who are hell bent on destroying them, Jews, they don't belong in the middle east mentality.

    2) Palestinians give in? Well that ain't happening any time either and why should they give after all they have been living on these lands for centuries. Israel and Israelis know that a non-violent Palestine is a great benefit for them. Not to mention at various times the two state solution offered has been more than enough. Yes, there are questions about settlements (something the Israeli state is becoming harsher on), and the question of Palestinian refugees, but they are solvable. A return to Pre-1967 borders has massive support in Palestine and in Israel. However, for any progress – and I meant genuine progress – to be made here, Hamas has to go.

    Now for the Important Part..

    Palestinians have already suffered so much because of inept, war-mongering politicians and continued interference from the likes of Iran and Syria that its literally unacceptable the state they are living in. The lolArab nations won't do jack about it they could care less about the Palestinians. You and i both know they love indulging themselves in Hot white blond women, nice big Cars and SUV's.

    Today you get a little food and medicine, tomorrow your house gets bombed as a Hamas security hideout, fact is its in the palestinan interest to simply let Hamas go and Never vote for war mongering parties ever. Israel will not negotiate with Hamas, and despite some bullshit, Israel has a right to not negotiate with a party whose militant wing continually chucks rockets into Israeli territory.
     
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  4. Always Neutral

    Always Neutral BANNED

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    Israel does not fear Pakistan and vice versa. Both have nukes and Israel never has opposed Pakistan on any global level. No leader of Pakistan in recent times threatened to nuke Israel. Nor can Pakistan do anything for the Palestinians so why not have cordial relations with them at people to people level.

    Regards
     
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  5. Durran3

    Durran3 FULL MEMBER

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    Israel and Pakistan have actually worked together on a few covert operations. The biggest being Operation cyclone, even in Sri Lanka Israeli's and Pakistani's helped the Sri Lankan's. Some even in UN operations as well.. Israeli's even helped PAKISTAN during the Earthquake on Oct 5th or 7th i don't quiet remembe in Balakot and northern areas, obviously it wasn't direct but through the United Nations.

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1129113922099

    I just don't see any logical reason for Pakistan to not recognize Israel.
     
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  6. Neo

    Neo RETIRED

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    Not entirely true, jewish lobby has worked against Pakistan behind the curtains from the very beginning.

    The words of David Ben Gurion, the first Israeli Prime Minister, as printed in the Jewish Chronicle,9 August 1967, leave nothing to imagination:

    "The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this
    ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs. This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan. Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work there from against Pakistan. It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans."
     
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  7. Mujahid91

    Mujahid91 BANNED

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    Pakistan must not recongize Israel first we are puppet of US now Israel trust me most of the Muslims will lose hope from Pakistan i'do say Iran is thousand times better than us.There should be no Israel the jews must find a new place to live and its not Palestine i wonder why no one cares about Masjid Al-Aqsa ? after Israel attack KSA and take over Kabbah for some odd reason we should sit and watch like American couch potatos hypocrisy at its best.

     
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  8. Omar1984

    Omar1984 ELITE MEMBER

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    Here's some of the quotes the founder of Pakistan, Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, made about Israel.
    Note: when he says "Musalmans of India" or "Muslims of India" he actually means Pakistanis because most of these quotes were made before the birth of Pakistan.


    - “I am sure that there will be no peace in the Near East unless they (the British) give an honest and square deal to the Arabs in Palestine”. On May 25, 1945, Mr. Jinnah declared, “If Britain goes back even on the plighted word of hers, which is the barest justice done to the Arabs, it will be against the deepest sentiments and views of the Muslims of the world and it will constitute a breach of the solemn assurances given to the Musalmans of India whose sympathy and support were secured for the prosecution of the war on the basis of this promise... It is too dangerous a game to play and a bait to get the support... of the Jews for electioneering purposes, for it will certainly alienate and exasperate the Muslim world and lead to most disastrous consequences”.



    - On October 12, 1945, Mr Jinnah said at Quetta, “Every man and woman of the Muslim world will die before Jewry seizes Jerusalem. I hope the Jews will not succeed in their nefarious designs and I wish Britain and America should keep their hand off and then I will see how the Jews conquer Jerusalem. The Jews, over half a million, have already been accommodated in Jerusalem against the wishes of the people. May I know which other country has accommodated them? If domination and exploitation are carried now, there will be no peace and end of wars”.



    - Addressing a mass meeting in Bombay on November 8, 1945, Mr Jinnah said, “We Musalmans of India, are one with the Arab world on this issue. It is not a question of a National Home for Jews in Palestine. It is a question of Jews reconquering Palestine, which they had lost 2000 years ago, with the help of British bayonets and American money. I have no enmity against Jews. I know they were treated very badly in some parts of civilized Europe. But why should Palestine be dumped with such a large number of Jews? If Jews want to reconquer Palestine, let them face Arabs without British or American help”?



    -Referring to the efforts made by President Truman to put pressure on British government to allow 100,000 Jews into Palestine, Mr. Jinnah said, “here comes the President of a great country thinking entirely of Jewry and the interests of Jews. President Truman had the effrontery to put pressure on the British government to allow a million Jews into Palestine, while he has agreed, after a long period of vacillation, to allow only a 100 Indians to migrate to the United States of America”.
    When a section of the audience shouted, ‘shame’, ‘shame’, Mr Jinnah turned around and exclaimed: “It is not shame. It is monstrous and criminal. Why doesn’t President Truman take one million Jews into USA? The reason is that the Jews do not want a National Home in Palestine. What they want is to reconquer Palestine, which they lost 2000 years ago, with the help of British bayonets and American money”. Mr Jinnah then declared that if the British government tried to violate the solemn pledge given to the Arabs in Palestine and allow the Jews into Palestine, as suggested by President Truman, there would be no peace in the Middle East and the whole Islamic world would revolt. The consequences would be disastrous. “The Muslims of India would not remain as mere spectators. They would help the Arabs in Palestine by all possible means”.



    -In an interview with Duncan Hooper, Reuter’s correspondent, Mr. Jinnah warned that, if Palestine was partitioned, “there was bound to be the gravest disaster and unprecedented conflict, not only between the Arabs and the Authority that would undertake to enforce the Partition plan, but the entire Muslim world will revolt... Pakistan will have no other course left but to give its fullest support to the Arabs”. Talking to Robert Stimson of the BBC, Mr. Jinnah stated that, “the Muslims of the subcontinent had been compelled to condemn, in the strongest possible terms, the unjust and cruel decision of the United Nations concerning the partition of Palestine”.


    Daily Times - Site Edition [Printer Friendly Version]
     
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  9. A1Kaid

    A1Kaid PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Recent News...


    I've recently learned that PM. Netanyahu of Israel from the hard-line extremist Likud Party campaigned on the basis that he would never accept a "Palestinian state", meaning he does not support a "two-state solution". He and the party see it as another "Hamasistan" (I understand this to be their words).

    This comes as no surprise, as it was this campaign promise that led him to victory. What is also interesting is, Pres. Obama at Cairo University recently reassured and promise his support for the "Two-state solution".

    Likely there will be major disputes between the US administration and Israeli administration.


    One thing I observed is when Pres. Obama hosted PM. Netanyahu at the White House recently, his body language suggested a major disconnection with PM. Netanyahu, for example no eye-contact, there was no "usual laugh" and smile, it was quite cold during the interview. Obviously the diplomacy didn't go well.





    So if Israel is not going to recognize a "Palestinian state", should Pakistan still recognize and establish better ties with Israel?
     
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  10. Patriot

    Patriot ELITE MEMBER

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    No, Pakistan should not if they show this kind of attitude to the world.Secondly it will hurt us more in terms of economic discount from Arab states as they offer us Oil with discount.
     
  11. Imran2006g

    Imran2006g FULL MEMBER

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    Yet some people think that we might get military aid from Israel after accepting their existence :sick:
     
  12. Omar1984

    Omar1984 ELITE MEMBER

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    LOL Israel will never give military aid to an Islamic Republic.

    No good will come out of recognizing Israel.

    Zionists hate Muslims.
     
  13. Durran3

    Durran3 FULL MEMBER

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    Its not about military aid its just illogical to not recognize a state who poses no threat to us or we to them. Should we now stop recognizing the State of Sudan for the full fledge Genocide going on there with over 400,000 Muslims Dead?? Why is the amazing Muslim Ummah not giving a flying fcuk about them hmm?

    The whole Muslim ummah goes berzerk against Israel's strikes on Gaza but no one is saying anything regarding the Arabs Massacring, pillaging, raping those Muslims who are in Darfur?

    Hypocrisy much i say from the Muslim Ummah....Where is the Outcry for the Muslims of Darfur?? The Arab nations are a Joke.. I organized a full Darfur event here at the University and raised close to 7500 dollars for the refugees but unfortunately no Government is interested in helping those who are displaced there, the UN is in sever short supplies in Darfur and drastic measures are needed..

    Its basically OK For Muslims to kill other Muslims.. but when a Non Muslim kills a Muslim than its rampage time eh?
     
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  14. Patriot

    Patriot ELITE MEMBER

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    but think about it man..Arabs will stop giving oil with discount and other economic benifits.We are either with Arabs or Israelis.
     
  15. Omar1984

    Omar1984 ELITE MEMBER

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    Israel is different from any other nation on earth. Millions of Jews from Europe settled in Palestine, made settlement camps for Palestinians, changed the name of the country to Israel, and continue to make settlement camps and continue to murder innocent Palestinian Muslim men, women, and children.

    If you look at my previous post, you will see some of Quaid-e-Azam's quotes on Israel. Why didn't Harry Truman take in millions of European Jews into U.S., why did Palestinians have to suffer.

    There's no country on earth that committed such atrocities as Israel did. They steal a country, and murder the inhabitants of the country.