• Sunday, May 31, 2020

Shaksgam valley: Two basic questions

Discussion in 'Central & South Asia' started by abcxyz0000, May 23, 2020.

  1. abcxyz0000

    abcxyz0000 BANNED

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    There are two possibilities. Either Shaksgam valley was part of princely state of J&K or it was not. First question is for first case and second question is for second case.

    1. If Shaksgam valley was never a part of the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir, why was there a mention of Shaksgam valley in Sino-Pak agreement, 1963? Since it was never a J&K territory, it was already a part of Xinjiang or Tibet. Why the need for ratification of Chinese 'custody' of Shaksgam by Pakistan then? Where does Pakistan come in the picture?

    2. If it was part of erstwhile princely state of Jammu and Kashmir but not in possession of Pakistan after independence (either an uninhabited no man's land or held by India), what authority did it have to declare anything about the territory it did not control? Why didn't Pakistan tell to China, "We are not present there but you too should keep out."? Why make a mention of Shaksgam? PAKISTAN GIVING SHAKSGAM TO CHINA IS LIKE PAKISTAN GIVING SRINAGAR TO CHINA AND THEN SAYING, "PAKISTAN DIDN'T GIVE ANYTHING TO CHINA BECAUSE PAK NEVER CONTROLLED SRINAGAR."

    - PRTP GWD
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  2. abcxyz0000

    abcxyz0000 BANNED

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  3. Cliftonite

    Cliftonite FULL MEMBER

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    Ma life, ma rules. Marzi humari. You guys have been plundering and raping Kashmir for 70 years, what's the big deal if we gave the barren Shaksgam valley to China? Consider it a part of Aksai Chin (which you will never get back) and forget it as collateral damage.
     
  4. abcxyz0000

    abcxyz0000 BANNED

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    But with your earlier id you were saying that Pakistan never gave anything away that legally belonged to J&K?

    - PRTP GWD
     
  5. MayaBazar

    MayaBazar FULL MEMBER

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    This is the mighty China that we are talking here.

    Both India and Pakistan have bowed down to the Chinese power.

    Unfortunate but true.
     
  6. Sal12

    Sal12 FULL MEMBER

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    Shaksgam valley was not in custody of Pakistan but Pakistan needed to settle its border with China. Also Pakistan got hundreds of sq miles of territory from Chinese custody in order to settle the border. So it was a good decision to accept Shaksgam valley as Chinese Land.
     
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  7. Pakistansdefender

    Pakistansdefender SENIOR MEMBER

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    The equal amount of Chinese area was given to Pakistan that includes the Chinese side of k2 mountain too.
    Thatshow they solve border problems. Give and take equal amount of favourite land.

    For Indian trolls do something about migrants, control what you already have. Stop hating your own people of different faith such as Islam.
    Even after all this economy you are not a teeny bit better then Pakistan. Focus on what you have. Don't focus on what you have lost.
     
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  8. xeuss

    xeuss FULL MEMBER

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    India considers the whole of Jammu & Kashmir as its own, based on the claims of the erstwhile Raja, who acceded to India. The Raja claimed the borders as depicted by current state of J&K in India, even though he never actually held possession or control of certain territories, including Hunza, Shaksgam Valley and Aksai Chin.

    Pakistan on the other hand, considered the territory of Hunza and J&K to be independent of each other, based on the areas they controlled. For it, the northern areas ended at the claim of the Mir of Hunza valley. The Shaksgam Valley was part of the claim of the Mir of Hunza but never officially demarcated with the Chinese, and therefore likely controlled by China.

    Therefore, when Pakistan and China demarcated their border in the Northern Areas, the valley ended up with Pakistan.

    The situation is further complicated by the role of the Mir of Hunza. Hunza was considered a vassal of the Raja of J&K, even though he never paid any tribute, but at the same time, had independently entered into an agreement with the British for protection against the Russians and Chinese.
     
  9. abcxyz0000

    abcxyz0000 BANNED

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    That's unethical. Give and take is done by using your own territory, not by slicing away a part of disputed territory. At least be honest and admit your fault.

    - PRTP GWD
     
  10. Sal12

    Sal12 FULL MEMBER

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    No. It's not fault. Pak did not give any inch of territory it holds. It actually got hundreds of sq miles of territory from China. Also border with China was settled and it laid a foundation of long lasting relationship between China and Pakistan.
     
  11. DESERT FIGHTER

    DESERT FIGHTER ELITE MEMBER

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    We never controlled it.
     
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  12. Pakistansdefender

    Pakistansdefender SENIOR MEMBER

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    Do you accept your own territory as disputed? Ask any Indian? Not kashmiri. I meant Indian. There was not a doubt in two things in pakistan. That the area is Pakistani and China is best friend.
    The deal is always portrayed as though Pakistan give away a chunk of land but equal amount was taken away by the chinese. Also there is a clause in border settlement that says when Pakistan get control of all of kashmir then we would renegotiate shagsam Valley.
    Now how do I know this?
    Because chief minister gb himself told this and shown documents on various news channels and they are satisfied by the settlement. Pakistan also gets its pride k2 completely in pakistan and other Chinese controlled land too
     
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  13. abcxyz0000

    abcxyz0000 BANNED

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    Was there any demarcation before 1963? That should have been done by J&Kites, not Pakistan.

    - PRTP GWD
     
  14. xeuss

    xeuss FULL MEMBER

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    I think that is incorrect. The treaty states that the if Pakistan was to lose control of the Shaksgam Valley, then China no longer recognizes the agreement (and thus will move to take control of it)

    The Raja of Jammu & Kashmir never held this territory. His claim is fictitious at best.

    The Shaksgam Valley was part of the border between the Mir of Hunza and Chinese. It was never demarcated, and it was never clear who controlled it (though there are reports of Chinese presence, but at the same time, there are reports of Hunza herders using it to graze their livestock).
     
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  15. Foxtrot Delta

    Foxtrot Delta SENIOR MEMBER

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    British took it from china in 1890. The agreement between china and britian shows territories of ladakh and mountain ranges above hunza valley to be chinese kingdom.

    China showed the map and negotiations were held between pakistan and china. China gave concessions pakistan gave comcessions and an agreement with china was reached in 1963.

    What India claims is more than the map british british agreed to. Pakistan accepts what british accepted with china.

    Whil india claims more than what british agreed to.
    We pakistaniz honor agreementd between british empire and china.

    images (37).jpeg
    This is the boundary of china, british agreed with china. And this is what they were after but gave comcessions to pakistan pakistan since we also agreed for comcessions. And we checked with british and their maps and concluded a deal with china for better relations.

    According to this map pakistan in 2020 controls 15% Chinese territory which china doesn't claim anymore And India controls 25% roughly in ladakh region of china's land which china does claim .

    According to chinese point of view. Thank God we settled it and they and us were civilized and friendly about it.

    I saw this map in beijing forbidden city inside a museum for the first time back in 2012.

    Pakistan has solved the british china border problem according to treaties and mutual benefits between china and pakistan.

    Northern_Frontier_1899,_1905,_1963.png

    Only problem is india now otherwise border dispute doesn't exist.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020