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Itachi

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Pakistan lacks a lot of infrastructure to manufacture a real advanced jet,for example:Supersonic wind tunnel,40KT+die forging press,Static test device,Anechoic chamber,electronics industry,Engine manufacturing capacity ets...maybe you can ask for help from other,but it's not “manufacture a real advanced jet independently" anymore.

Pakistan has a subsonic wind tunnel along with a Wind tunnel facility and a Wind tunnel Complex. It's unknown what goes on inside the last two or what type of equipment there is.

Source: https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/pdf-files/Eastern_Hemisphere_Wind_Tunnels.pdf

Rest of the stuff isn't hard to build.
I have told you time and time again, there are Hindjews portraying themselves to be Pakistanis and trying their best to cause divisions and animosities between Pakistanis and Chinese.

You and your hindjew theories lol

@Reichsmarschall @Iltutmish @Metal 0-1 and @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan know me by voice (at least the last 2). You too can come into my discord server and I can talk in simple Urdu or Punjabi to you and we'll see who's the hindjew then. :lol:

Discord link is on my profile page. :D

In the meantime.....post reported. :blah:
 

Beast

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Pakistan has a subsonic wind tunnel along with a Wind tunnel facility and a Wind tunnel Complex. It's unknown what goes on inside the last two or what type of equipment there is.

Source: https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/pdf-files/Eastern_Hemisphere_Wind_Tunnels.pdf

Rest of the stuff isn't hard to build.


You and your hindjew theories lol

@Reichsmarschall @Iltutmish @Metal 0-1 and @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan know me by voice (at least the last 2). You too can come into my discord server and I can talk in simple Urdu or Punjabi to you and we'll see who's the hindjew then. :lol:

Discord link is on my profile page. :D

In the meantime.....post reported. :blah:
LoL..There are plenty of wind tunnel. Just becos Pakistan has wind tunnel , means they can produced a 5th/6th gen fighter?

Then u got a jet fighter like Mig-15, that means u can take on F-22 fighter jet? :lol:
 

Beast

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Firstly, I meant T-129 as the last instance where we chose a Western option over a Chinese one. We always go for the best bang-for-buck. The Chinese weapons come with no strings attached, therefore it makes sense to use that route for major strategic assets like the HQ-9. But to say we always buy Chinese after evaluating other stuff like the poster originally said, is a bit misguided. It's not our fault you guys provide best bang for buck in certain areas. But we'd still happily go for western equipment if it provides an advantage over the other options. Can't keep all eggs in one basket ;)

Not downplaying Chinese hardware btw, it's as good as it needs to be.
Yes, not putting all egg in a basket by wasting money on other area? China weapon don't have string attached as u mention. And alliance with China don't forsee to failed now and near future.

As for indigneous weapon. Pakistan need to concentrate it's limited resources on project with high level of success and export value and not blindly pursue indigenous product just for sake of it. Maintaining a local production line require extensive money , not to mention funds for R&D.
 

Itachi

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LoL..There are plenty of wind tunnel. Just becos Pakistan has wind tunnel , means they can produced a 5th/6th gen fighter?

Then u got a jet fighter like Mig-15, that means u can take on F-22 fighter jet? :lol:

People in the past believed Pakistan could never make nukes. Look where we are...

:rolleyes:
 

Tango101

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Yes, not putting all egg in a basket by wasting money on other area? China weapon don't have string attached as u mention. And alliance with China don't forsee to failed now and near future.

As for indigneous weapon. Pakistan need to concentrate it's limited resources on project with high level of success and export value and not blindly pursue indigenous product just for sake of it. Maintaining a local production line require extensive money , not to mention funds for R&D.
My friend, everything not Chinese is not necessarily a waste. One of the advantages of being cash strapped is that you learn to use your money in the best possible way. That is precisely what our armed forces do, whether it be on Chinese procurements or Western.

As for your indigenous weapons point, I agree.
 

Beast

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People in the past believed Pakistan could never make nukes. Look where we are...

:rolleyes:
North Korea can even make more advance nuke while India also can make nuke so what is your point? But north Korea cannot produced a 5th gen fighter..

See the point!
 

Sage

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Not entirely true sir, we have chosen western options over Chinese ones in the past, T-129s being the most recent example if I'm not wrong. The fact that it didn't materialize has nothing to do with funds either.
Choosing some stuff and buying the same are two different things...
 

Ali_Baba

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Pakistan has NOT designed a single plane in Pakistan EVER ... nothing - nada. JF17 was led by China with Pakistan providing selective contributions in design alongside requirements and project management.

Everything has been under license and only then partially ... eg K8 and JF17 were/are partially manufactured in Pakistan with still sizeable amounts coming from China.

Pakistans only experience is in UAVs, and Cruise Missiles and Ballistic missiles. All progressive from starting points provided by others and where the system complexity is not as significant as a fighter jet.

Had Pakistan designed a prop-based trainer - then i could get on board with Pakistan objectives but they have not - so how can they realistically think Pakistan design and deliver a stealth based 5th or 6th gen-platform starting from no plane design skills ? It is not going to happen anytime soon.

Azm will be a variant of TFX, or FC-35 - there is no other logical possibility.

Project Azm shoud really be something simpler like design a LIFT Jet or a jet trainer like a K8 replacement platform ????????????? But it is not - it is a 6th gen aircraft - a crazy and insane decision by PAF ...

Aircraft design skills are progressive and built over time or something you throw a lot of money at. Pakistan has neither. Just look at India with all of her institutions and universtity ecosystem and long pedigree of building planes under license and then see how their Tejas programme went - it is HARD ... right now - too hard for Pakistan. They may have better luck with their MCA as they have finally got a base to start from.

Air weapons University is a step in the right decision - now it will take 30 years from how before Pakistan think of designing a military jet in Pakistan.

People who refer to JF17 as an example of Pakistan's prowess have no idea what aircraft design, build, validation, testing and manufacturing is about.
 
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Beast

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Pakistan has NOT designed a single plane in Pakistan EVER ... nothing - nada.

Everything has been under license and only then partially ... eg K8 and JF17 were/are partially manufactured in Pakistan with still sizeable amounts coming from China.

Pakistans only experience is in UAVs, and Cruise Missiles and Ballistic missiles.

Had Pakistan designed a prop-based trainer - then i could get on board with Pakistan objectives but they have not - so how can they realistically think Pakistan design and deliver a stealth based 5th or 6th gen-platform? It is not going to happen.

Azm will be a variant of TFX, or FC-35 - there is no other logical possibility.

Project Azm shoud really be something simpler like design a LIFT ?????????????

Aircraft design skills are progressive built over time or something you through a lot of money at. Just look at India with all of her institutions and universtity ecosystem and how their Tejas programme went - it is HARD ... right now - too hard for Pakistan.

Air weapons University is a step in the right decision - now it will take 30 years from how before Pakistan think of designing a militart jet in Pakistan.

People who refer to JF17 as an example of Pakistan's prowess have no idea what aircraft design, build, validation, testing and manufacturing is about.
But what is there to jibe about? How many countries can Independently designed a modern fighter jet?

It's even tougher than making a nuke bomb.
 

Itachi

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North Korea can even make more advance nuke while India also can make nuke so what is your point? But north Korea cannot produced a 5th gen fighter..

See the point!

The point flew across your mind. No point debating with you. :rolleyes:
you don't need to say more, because you have "proven" yourself with this single sentence.

Keep moving troll.
 

luciferdd

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Pakistan has NOT designed a single plane in Pakistan EVER ... nothing - nada. JF17 was led by China with Pakistan providing selective contributions in design alongside requirements and project management.

Everything has been under license and only then partially ... eg K8 and JF17 were/are partially manufactured in Pakistan with still sizeable amounts coming from China.

Pakistans only experience is in UAVs, and Cruise Missiles and Ballistic missiles. All progressive from starting points provided by others and where the system complexity is not as significant as a fighter jet.

Had Pakistan designed a prop-based trainer - then i could get on board with Pakistan objectives but they have not - so how can they realistically think Pakistan design and deliver a stealth based 5th or 6th gen-platform starting from no plane design skills ? It is not going to happen anytime soon.

Azm will be a variant of TFX, or FC-35 - there is no other logical possibility.

Project Azm shoud really be something simpler like design a LIFT Jet or a jet trainer like a K8 replacement platform ????????????? But it is not - it is a 6th gen aircraft - a crazy and insane decision by PAF ...

Aircraft design skills are progressive and built over time or something you throw a lot of money at. Pakistan has neither. Just look at India with all of her institutions and universtity ecosystem and long pedigree of building planes under license and then see how their Tejas programme went - it is HARD ... right now - too hard for Pakistan. They may have better luck with their MCA as they have finally got a base to start from.

Air weapons University is a step in the right decision - now it will take 30 years from how before Pakistan think of designing a military jet in Pakistan.

People who refer to JF17 as an example of Pakistan's prowess have no idea what aircraft design, build, validation, testing and manufacturing is about.

Actually even Turkeys have no more capacity then Pakistan at Research,Design and Manufacture a real advanced jet,their TFX project totally rely on the support from the west.WIth out the west they can't even nanufacture an unitary canopy nor a Titanium alloy fuselage frame.
F22.JPG
F35.JPG
 
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Beast

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Actually even Turkeys have no more capacity then Pakistan at Research,Design and Manufacture a real advanced jet,their TFX project totally rely on the support from the west.WIth out the west they can't even nanufacture an unitary canopy nor a Titanium alloy fuselage frame.
View attachment 787232 View attachment 787233
Actually i applaud these countries effort to be self sufficient. Yes, they cannot make everything themselves. They do heavily need support from others. But given the size and ratio of them vs big countries like US and China. They have already achieved a remarkable job.

Like South Korea, given the limited population and country size. Its not easy to even manage a project and accomplish with 40-50% of the job scope completely by themselves. Not many countries has the expertise to complete such a feat.
 

luciferdd

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Actually i applaud these countries effort to be self sufficient. Yes, they cannot make everything themselves. They do heavily need support from others. But given the size and ratio of them vs big countries like US and China. They have already achieved a remarkable job.

Like South Korea, given the limited population and country size. Its not easy to even manage a project and accomplish with 40-50% of the job scope completely by themselves. Not many countries has the expertise to complete such a feat.

Emmmmm...IMO i don't see Turkey can be comparable to South Korea,obviously South Korea has much better industrial foundation especially at various heavy industries,chemical industry and semiconductor industry,what they lack are experience and details.This is why South Korea has developed rapidly in the international arms market in recent years.
 
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Beast

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Emmmmm...IMO i don't see Turkey can be comparable to South Korea,obviously South Korea has much better industrial foundation especially at various heavy industries,chemical industry and semiconductor industry,what they lack are experience and details.This is why South Korea has developed rapidly in the international arms market in recent years.
agree with your statement. Turkey in fact bought lots of SK military hardware from SPH to tanks.
 

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