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SBP reserves critically low at $6.9 billion (practically zero)

Samlee

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Mere khayal se ab Israel ki recognition ka propaganda shoroh hojayega, boleingay humaray pas paisay nahi, inko tasleem karna prega.

PTI govt left 22 billion reserves in the SBP, 6% gdp growth. Where did all the money vanish in 6 months?

Wouldn't it have been better if we had recognized Israel back in trumps time when we could have negotiate ld a lucrative package from US
 

blain2

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That is indeed true. But please keep in mind that they are allowed to play within a well-defined sandbox only. The military's role in destroying every other institution that could possibly challenge its supra-Constitutional supremacy has gone on for decades, and recent events are but a natural culmination of those processes. Even now, it hides behind a civilian façade to deflect blame away from itself while it calls all the shots from behind the scenes.
At the macro level, I do agree that military rules and indirect interventions have had a negative effect on Pakistan. However, I don't agree with linking military to everything including the routine running of the economy just to blame them.

If anything, it is the establishment with its military diplomacy that has paved the path for the last two governments to get fiscal space through financial support from foreign countries and IMIs. This is not the job of the establishment at all (one that I am absolutely against and utterly embarrassed by) yet both PTI and current PDM government have relied on it. Where were their finanial wizards and diplomats to handle these delicate issues with foreign countries? Phir rotay hain BPS-22 officer kay baray mein.

I can guarantee that if the sitting government told the CoAS to mind his damned business in the GHQ and no longer bother on these chillay to KSA/UAE etc. to secure financial support, he would be "thank you sir" and start minding his business. The CoAS travels when he is told "general sahab, achaa ho ga, agar aap mil aatay hain" by the Civ. leadership. This happened in IK's term and it is happening now.

Saudia has approved an aid package with $ 3 billion. Not sure why it hasn't hit the media yet but it should be announced later today or tomorrow. They will support further if need be. This situation would ease off pressure from Pakistan's import / export imbalance. Now the real catch is for the current sitting government to establish long-term policies and work on emergency basis to start fixing the financial mess. We need to increase our income vs. expenses. A poor country like Pakistan imports even things like Cheese, Peanut Butter, etc (go to the local super stores and see EU / American brands). While our poor families have to live below 25,000 rupees. Who said this is acceptable? Certain bans on imports are desperately needed to encourage local products and associated manufacturing and doing business in Pakistan MUST be made easier than it's been.
Agreed. Kindly, the Saudis have softened the blow to our ego by suggesting that they are providing liquidity to Egyptian and Turkish economies too along with Pakistan and they could do more for Pakistan:


can you prove it? as I recall you were no fan of pirni, khan or shah mehmood et.al when their tola was in power. why this about turn?

only thing/common thread I find here now and then is hatred for the forces. anyone who is against them, you people are with him.

if it were up to moron e ahzam taliban khan (and the fat chor), Pakistan would now be a satellite of bharat like BD, bhutan and maldeep. or it will be doing jehad against NATO afghando bachabaz style.

according to him
  • bharat is a benevolent entity, as a proof he cites the "wealth" BD is supposed to have accumulated since joining hands with India (forgetting/ignoring the actual plight of bengalis esp. women)
  • amreeka is evil, it helped Gen. Musharraf kill "mujahideen in erstwhile FATA and cost him some 165 billion imaginary dollars (burda frosh, nasha frosh, killers, smugglers, and terrorists were his mujahideen)

LeGenD
Its a waste of time here to ask for facts. Nonsense and propaganda passes here as gospel. The entire army is a bunch of traitors because they NOW don't agree with Allah's new, self-appointed vicegerent on earth i.e. Imran Khan Niazi.
 
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VCheng

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At the macro level, I do agree that military rules and indirect interventions have had a negative effect on Pakistan. However, I don't agree with linking military to everything including the routine running of the economy just to blame them.

I have already agreed that the blame for the day to day mismanagement belongs firmly on the civilian side. But when the political process is rigged to ensure that only suitably malleable persons are given the titular posts, then whose fault is that when all they can do is loot while they can?

If anything, it is the establishment with its military diplomacy that has paved the path for the last two governments to get fiscal space through financial support from foreign countries and IMIs. This is not the job of the establishment at all (one that I am absolutely against and utterly embarrassed by) yet both PTI and current PDM government have relied on it. Where were their finanial wizards and diplomats to handle these delicate issues with foreign countries? Phir rotay hain BPS-22 officer kay baray mein.

I can agree here that the military has been very successful in attracting billions and billions of dollars in all kinds of direct and indirect support that has proven very useful for Pakistan. Foreign supporters have only been too glad to do business with the only effective entity in the country that can deliver what is promised. Just what was the response of the military to the Kerry-Lugar Bill when it explicitly aimed to strengthen civilian institutions, right down to PDF too?

The military is the only institution that can ensure keeping Pakistan together. That is great. But the other side of the same greatness is an absolute and never-ending effort to ensure that no other institution can hope to rise and take its rightful constitutional powers. That is not so great. But that is where we are today, and likely to remain here, if we are being honest.

I can guarantee that if the sitting government told the CoAS to mind his damned business in the GHQ and no longer bother on these chillay to KSA/UAE etc. to secure financial support, he would be "thank you sir and start minding his business." The CoAS travels when he is told "general sahab, achaa ho ga, agar aap mil aatay hain" by the Civ. leadership. This happened in IK's term and it is happening now.

The historical record speaks directly against your guarantee. Any PM or government that has tried to tell the military to start minding its business has found himself/herself at the wrong end of the body exposed to the wrong end of the Quomi Danda held by the COAS, at best, and dead, at worst.

And again, there is simply no reason or evidence for this system to ever allow any meaningful changes. That is the sad reality and the truth of Pakistan. It will go down the international geopolitical raceway stuck in this first gear, but only as fast as this first gear will allow.
 

Jango

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Then no different than PTI/Bajwa same-page story, right? Is it my or your fault that the idiots in the PTI and PDM governments end up giving a BPS-22 officer carte blanche to run the country's foreign policy? I have said it before, don't cede this space and then cry afterwards that "establishment" gets involved in politics. We have a penchant for not learning from our mistakes.

Oh I agree with you on this...the fault lies on both sides. Perhaps even equally.

But question is why and how did that BPS-22 officer start having that carte blanche? If the BPS-22 officer is the one who gave rise to these parties, then wouldn't they be beholden to him at some point in time?

And if the civilian government disagrees with the BPS-22 officer, he can quite simply dismiss the government. Before it used to happen overtly, but of late the modus operandi has changed to operate behind the scenes.

Imran Khan disagreed with the estab on many things, and see what happened. Why was the COAS sending representatives to meet NS? Why was a deal being negotiated? Agr BPS-22 officer itna asool pasand tha, he should have declined to meet, no?

There are also quite a few sources, and now even IK himself who say that the NS reports were forged and the estab knew about it, but I won't comment on that unless I can verify this. But what I can verify is that the estab was meeting multiple political parties and players (including the current opposition chairman) and imploring upon them to do what is 'right' ;)

Siasatdaan to hain hi ghatiya, but you can't absolve the BPS-22 officer.

If anything, it is the establishment with its military diplomacy that has paved the path for the last two governments to get fiscal space through financial support from foreign countries and IMIs. This is not the job of the establishment at all (one that I am absolutely against and utterly embarrassed by) yet both PTI and current PDM government have relied on it. Where were their finanial wizards and diplomats to handle these delicate issues with foreign countries? Phir rotay hain BPS-22 officer kay baray mein.

Why does then the military effectively run the foreign policy of the country since the past many decades? The foreign minister is just the face of the country, the policy itself comes from elsewhere. Is cooperation or military input bad? Heck no. But it should be civilian led.

This was yet another sticking point of the estab and IK, one which Mr QBJ has himself admitted to in the talk at LUMS and at Lahore garrison (the latter being in more clear words).

To move ahead of the blame game between PTI and QBJ and the recent occurences, I would say that the real rot started to happen during Musharraf. If I started to count down the number of civilian organizations and institutions that started to have a member of the military sit in them (who had no business being there), the night would become short.

There is no need for a military officer to be on deputation on organizations such as CAA, PIA, PTV, KPT, and much more. Musharraf really blurred the lines between civilian and military roles and that effect has snowballed into what we see today. Aik bar phir taqat ajaye to phir chorna mushkil hota hai.
 
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blain2

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Oh I agree with you on this...the fault lies on both sides. Perhaps even equally.

But question is why and how did that BPS-22 officer start having that carte blanche? If the BPS-22 officer is the one who gave rise to these parties, then wouldn't they be beholden to him at some point in time?

And if the civilian government disagrees with the BPS-22 officer, he can quite simply dismiss the government. Before it used to happen overtly, but of late the modus operandi has changed to operate behind the scenes.

Imran Khan disagreed with the estab on many things, and see what happened. Why was the COAS sending representatives to meet NS? Why was a deal being negotiated? Agr BPS-22 officer itna asool pasand tha, he should have declined to meet, no?

There are also quite a few sources, and now even IK himself who say that the NS reports were forged and the estab knew about it, but I won't comment on that unless I can verify this. But what I can verify is that the estab was meeting multiple political parties and players (including the current opposition chairman) and imploring upon them to do what is 'right' ;)

Siasatdaan to hain hi ghatiya, but you can't absolve the BPS-22 officer.
I assign equal blame to Gen Bajwa and his overreach. However, the genesis of this overreach goes back to PTI rule when the sitting PM ceded this space to the CoAS.

Since the passing of 18th Amendment, no BPS-22 officer can get away with what his predecessors used to get away with. Now, he needs to find a civilian pol who is willing to play along. IK was just this type of a politician who went along in 2017 and in return had to cede foreign policy to the said BPS-22 afsar. So some introspection is needed as to why IK had to cede this space. Had he not taken any favors from Bajwa, then he could have told the general to mind his business in the GHQ.

Let me point out that there are examples of this. NS told Gen Jehangir Karamat to back off and that gentlemen resigned. It will require some getting used to on both sides but the civilian politicians have to ensure they don't make BPS-22 officers their benefactors. Then you are already at a disadvantage when telling the CoAS to mind his business in the GHQ.
 
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VCheng

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I would say that the real rot started to happen during Musharraf.

No Sir. General Zia laid the foundations by usurping all that was left after the national breakup, thanks to being able to capitalize on Bhutto's egotistic blunders. The rest that followed is only the natural progression to where things are today. Let there be no doubt about that at all.
 

Jango

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Had he not taken any favors from Bajwa, then he could have told the general to mind his business in the GHQ.

Agreed with all that you said.

But for the quoted part, in the political climate of Pakistan, could he have come to power then had he not asked Bajwa for favors?

As they say, fauj ki asheerbad kay baghair aap taqat main nhn asaktay.
 

blain2

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No Sir. General Zia laid the foundations by usurping all that was left after the national breakup, thanks to being able to capitalize on Bhutto's egotistic blunders. The rest that followed is only the natural progression to where things are today. Let there be no doubt about that at all.
We are going easy on Ayub Khan here. Let's place the original sin on his doorstep if we are to discuss military interventions. General Zia may not be liked by the left for his right of center policies and overt Islamization, but he carried the baton using the precedence set by Ayub and Yahya Khan.
 

Jango

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No Sir. General Zia laid the foundations by usurping all that was left after the national breakup, thanks to being able to capitalize on Bhutto's egotistic blunders. The rest that followed is only the natural progression to where things are today. Let there be no doubt about that at all.

Oh if we are going that far behind, agree with you on that. Zia ka to itna keh nhn saktay kyunkay us waqt to zinda bhi nhn thay, but with Musharraf have seen what happened with my own eyes.

But after Zia, we have had a few decades, but our incompetent politicians made no progress on that front. Or maybe that's why incompetent ones such as NS were chosen, so they could not be bold enough to reclaim civilian space? Question of did the chicken come first or the egg perhaps?
 

doorstar

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Its a waste of time here to ask for facts. Nonsense and propaganda passes here as gospel. The entire army is a bunch of traitors because they NOW don't agree with Allah's new vicegerent on earth i.e. Imran Khan Niazi.
main tipu sultan, main siraj dola, main Imam this and that. weird thing is that he says I will never do sajda in front of amreeka, there is only 1 superpower on earth and that is Allah. then when the sheeple are not looking our tipu tells his minions to go to amreeki embassy and say that I did not mean it, it was a misunderstanding.

More Fun Facts:
do you know that he --instead of keeping to his deal to eliminate corruption-- wanted to be made an international statesman?
  • make me a go-between Iran and saudia
  • make me a intermediary between roos and amreeka
  • tell saudi wali ehd to be nice to me or else I'll team-up with soltan ordo and the supreme leader to create my own OIC
ask Pentagon to tell Trump to invite me (afterwards: ooo yipee feels like I won another world cup)

ask Pentagon to tell Biden to invite me. after told, no says I'll never take a call from any amreeki official unless it is Biden himself

says don't retaliate against bharati outrage in balakote, send me to New York to make an anti-india speech (read: I wanna do some jumlabazi/sound-bites like my brothers and soul-mates namely surrendra teli and dotard Trump to gladden the hearts of moronic masses)
 
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VCheng

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We are going easy on Ayub Khan here. Let's place the original sin on his doorstep if we are to discuss military interventions. General Zia may not be liked by the left for his right of center policies and overt Islamization, but he carried the baton using the precedence set by Ayub and Yahya Khan.

You make a fair point, but at least Ayub also delivered economically during his reign, for which he must recognized. Yahya was simply too inept, but the real criminal was Zia, undoubtedly. He moved religion into primacy for his own political goals, involved Pakistan in Afghanistan and brought in the drugs and AK-47 culture, right down to appointing MLAs to dispense justice. That is how the military knew there was nothing left that could put it back into the proverbial lamp, and whatever all Zia's successors did was only a natural progression from then onwards. Every one of them then left disastrous "gifts" to the nation, whether the Hudood Laws, or NAB, that have still not stopped wreaking their havoc on all other national institutions as well as society, exactly as intended.

You make a fair point, but at least Ayub also delivered economically during his reign, for which he must recognized. Yahya was simply too inept, but the real criminal was Zia, undoubtedly. He moved religion into primacy for his own political goals, involved Pakistan in Afghanistan and brought in the drugs and AK-47 culture, right down to appointing MLAs to dispense justice. That is how the military knew there was nothing left that could put it back into the proverbial lamp, and whatever all Zia's successors did was only a natural progression from then onwards. Every one of them then left disastrous "gifts" to the nation, whether the Hudood Laws, or NAB, that have still not stopped wreaking their havoc on all other national institutions as well as society, exactly as intended.

Please see the above.
 

blain2

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Agreed with all that you said.

But for the quoted part, in the political climate of Pakistan, could he have come to power then had he not asked Bajwa for favors?

As they say, fauj ki asheerbad kay baghair aap taqat main nhn asaktay.
We have examples to the contrary. BB's two tenures, NS' second and third tenures as the PM, all of those were without the blessing of the military and they weren't too happy about either of them. So things do happen in Pakistan without the approval of the establishment.
 

truthseeker2010

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We have examples to the contrary. BB's two tenures, NS' second and third tenures as the PM, all of those were without the blessing of the military and they weren't too happy about either of them. So things do happen in Pakistan without the approval of the establishment.

Lol president and 58 2b used to be favourite of the military.
 

Crimson Blue

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For the tongue-in-cheek comment, would you prefer that I should be getting my news from your/PTI's blue-eyed boys i.e. Moeed Pirzada or Imran Riaz Khan toeing the party line?

I did not mention PTI or IK in my post at all. It seems that Boys are obsessed with PTI these days :-).

As far as asking those who are in charge why are we in this situation; that gets you tortered after you are stripped naked. With so tight controls that judges dare not decide independently and media houses getting shut down on the direction of sector-commander, Fuhrer of the time always had control over who would be his front man (usually know as PM) to take the blame. For some reason Fuhrer of the time always favored the worst of the worst with 2018 being an outlier.

But fear not, this time Fuhrer has selected best administrator in the nation as PM and brought in best economic wizard on Airforce One as finance minister. Everything would work just ok. I just wish for PTI to stay out of federal government over the next 2 years :yahoo:.
 

Enigma SIG

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It wasn't the boys that got you to this state of financial bankruptcy. Ask those in governance and those before why we are here.

Boys had a direct role in installing said corrupt people in governance ever since. They benefitted from it the most by creating a parallel economy and state that is answerable to no one.

It's like committing vehicular manslaughter; and when the cops find out you say oh no the car did it; I had nothing to do with it.
 

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