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Sayyids in The Indian Sub-Continent

GreenFalcon

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The Sayyids are descendants of Hazrat Ali Karam Allah Wajhu R.A, the son-in-law of Hazrat Muhammad S.A.W by Fatima tuz Zahara, Hazrat Muhammad SAW's daughter; and those found in South Asia today are the representatives of the Sayyids who, during the Muslim supremacy, flocked to India as religious teachers, soldiers, and adventurers, from Turkey, Arabia, and central Asia.

Sayyids, found widespread in South Asia, are Sunni Muslims, but in northern Gujarat many are Shia Muslims at heart, though all profess to be Sunnis. The Shia Sayyids there form a distinct community, their chief bond of union being the secret celebration of Shia religious rites. As a class, Sayyids are by their profession obliged to show that they are Religious and are careful to observe all the rites enjoined by the Quran.

As a rule, a Sayyid's daughter marries only another Sayyid, preferably chosen from among some exclusive classes of Sayyids. Family trees are examined and every care taken that the accepted suitor is a Sayyid both on the father's and mother's side. But many take wives from any of the four chief Muslim classes and sometimes, though rarely, from among the higher of the local or "irregular" Muslim communities. Sayyid boys' names generally end in "Ali" or "Husain," and occasionally in "Shah."

Many of the Pathan tribes in the North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan, such as the Bangash of Kohat and the Mishwanis of the Hazara border, claim Sayyid origin. The apostles who completed the conversion of the Pathans to Islam were also called "Sayyids" if they came from the west, and "Sheikhs" if they came from the east; hence, doubtless, many Pathans falsely claim Sayyid origin. In Afghanistan the Sayyids control much of the commerce, as their holy character allows them to pass unharmed where other Pathans would be murdered.

The Sayyids had a short-lived dynasty in India, which reigned at Delhi during the first half of the fifteenth century. Their name again figures in Indian history at the breakup of the Mogul Empire, when two Sayyid brothers created and dethroned emperors at their will. In 1901 the total number of Sayyids in India was 1,339,734. This number included many well-known and influential families. The first Muslim appointed to the Council to India and the first appointed to the Privy Council were both Sayyids.

Notable Sayyids:
Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani R.A- Abdul-Qadir Gilani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Ali Hajveri a.k.a DATA GANKBAKSH or DATA SAHIB R.A- Ali Hujwiri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Khawaja Moinuddin Chisti a.k.a KHAWAJA GHAREEB NAWAZ R.A- Moinuddin Chishti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Syed Muhammad Usman Shah Marwandi a.k.a LAL SHAHBAZ QALANDAR R.A-
Lal Shahbaz Qalandar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Jalauddin Muhammad Balkhi a.k.a RUMI R.A-
Rumi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Syed Abdullah Shah Qadri a.k.a BABA BULLEH SHAH R.A-
Bulleh Shah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Syed Peer Waris Shah R.A-
Waris Shah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Indus Falcon

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On the day of Judgement it won't matter IF you are a Syed, Siddiqui, Farooqi, Usmani, or Hussaini etc. What will matter is how good or bad you were.
 

GreenFalcon

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Point of the thread?

ANd then you have inaccuracies in it like 'As a rule, a Sayyid's daughter marries only another Sayyid...'.
Point of Thread of is inform the uninformed

On the day of Judgement it won't matter IF you are a Syed, Siddiqui, Farooqi, Usmani, or Hussaini etc. What will matter is how good or bad you were.
I agree, thats exactly what Baba Bulleh Shah Tried to explain through his Poetry
 

BelligerentPacifist

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Sayyids 'Choose' not to Marry their daughter outside to preserve the bloodline, because you are what your 'Father' is
You are what you are. If your father is a psycopath who murdered little mice, you could be a superb vet.

There is no such canon by choice, as you put it. The rule is, as it is with any other family: you inherit your paternal family name, and if you are a woman, your kids would be part of their father's family. Your line stops there. Maybe the people you're talking about don't want that for the women of their family. Us men get one fewer constraint in there!
 

waz

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Good thread bro.

If you are Sayid you should be able to prove linage through your forefathers. Some do it through paper records, some are able to point to the graves of their ancestors all the way to the Rasool|(saws) himself.

There are also DNA tests around that can prove decent, especially those of Banu Hashim decent. I believe brother Hasni (Arab member) is of Hashmi decent. Not a Sayid through.

Sadly there are a GREAT MANY frauds.....
 

GreenFalcon

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You are what you are. If your father is a psycopath who murdered little mice, you could be a superb vet.

There is no such canon by choice, as you put it. The rule is, as it is with any other family: you inherit your paternal family name, and if you are a woman, your kids would be part of their father's family. Your line stops there. Maybe the people you're talking about don't want that for the women of their family. Us men get one fewer constraint in there!
Thats exactly the reason why Sayyids chose marry daughters to other Sayyids other wise the "line stops" like you said as highlighted above, So what's the problem, I don't get it.

Good thread bro.

If you are Sayid you should be able to prove linage through your forefathers. Some do it through paper records, some are able to point to the graves of their ancestors all the way to the Rasool|(saws) himself.

There are also DNA tests around that can prove decent, especially those of Banu Hashim decent. I believe brother Hasni (Arab member) is of Hashmi decent. Not a Sayid through.

Sadly there are a GREAT MANY frauds.....
yeap you're right, It's called a 'Shajra' which is a recorded family tree, I have read mine, it traces back to Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani :D

I've met many fake Sayyids in my life, But Allah hu Aalim
 

Sherlock Holmes

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Good thread bro.
If you are Sayid you should be able to prove linage through your forefathers. Some do it through paper records, some are able to point to the graves of their ancestors all the way to the Rasool|(saws) himself.
There are also DNA tests around that can prove decent, especially those of Banu Hashim decent. I believe brother Hasni (Arab member) is of Hashmi decent. Not a Sayid through.
Sadly there are a GREAT MANY frauds.....
Just to make this clear. Syeds and Alvis are descendents of Hazrat Ali. Those who are from Hazrat Ali and Syeda Fatima binte Muhammad P.B.U.H. are Syeds (because Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H claimed them as their descendents) and the rest of Hazrat Ali's descendents are Alvis. Both Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H. and Hazrat Ali were from Bani Hashim clan, so both Syeds and Alvis are Hashimi.

Many Syed came to India from Iran. And Alvis came from Arabia (Madina, Mecca etc)

Hashim was the nickname of great grandfather of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H. Hence the clan name banu Hashim.


Abū al-Qāsim Muḥammad ibn ʿAbd Allāh ibn ʿAbd al-Muṭṭalib ibn Hāshim
Abdullah ibn Abdul-Muttalib
Shaybah ibn Hāshim a.k.a Abdul-Muṭṭalib, since he was raised by his uncle Muṭṭalib
Amr al-ʻUlā a.k.a Hashim ibn 'Abd Manaf, nickname Hashim

Alî ibn Abî Ṭâlib
Abu Talib ibn Abdul-Muttalib
Shaybah ibn Hāshim a.k.a Abdul-Muṭṭalib, since he was raised by his uncle Muṭṭalib
Amr al-ʻUlā a.k.a Hashim ibn 'Abd Manaf, nickname Hashim

Hashim ibn 'Abd Manaf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



All Syeds are hashimi as I explained. And here you go.
Banu Hashim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
HASHIMITES OF KAKORI - Home


Thats exactly the reason why Sayyids chose marry daughters to other Sayyids other wise the "line stops" like you said as highlighted above, So what's the problem, I don't get it.
Syeds marry their daughters to non-syeds.

In India and Pakistan some Alvi do not marry their daughters to non-Alvis.
Alavi (surname) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Leader

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just like no arab has superiority over non-arab, and white over black, similarly this doesnot make any difference at all. they are just like any of us... This is what I learned from Prophet's message.
 

Al-zakir

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Islamic poet and philosopher Allama Iqbal already addressed this long ago.

"Tum Syed bhi ho Mirza bhi ho Afghan bhi ho
Tum sabhi kuchh ho batao ki musalman bhi ho
"

Magnificence of our deen is that no tribe or class is better than other. Muslim world may not have same language but I as Muslim can be any part of the world, enter in Masjid and perform salah like a native of that land.
 

Multani

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The Sayyids are descendants of Hazrat Ali Karam Allah Wajhu R.A, the son-in-law of Hazrat Muhammad S.A.W by Fatima tuz Zahara, Hazrat Muhammad SAW's daughter; and those found in South Asia today are the representatives of the Sayyids who, during the Muslim supremacy, flocked to India as religious teachers, soldiers, and adventurers, from Turkey, Arabia, and central Asia.

Sayyids, found widespread in South Asia, are Sunni Muslims, but in northern Gujarat many are Shia Muslims at heart, though all profess to be Sunnis. The Shia Sayyids there form a distinct community, their chief bond of union being the secret celebration of Shia religious rites. As a class, Sayyids are by their profession obliged to show that they are Religious and are careful to observe all the rites enjoined by the Quran.

As a rule, a Sayyid's daughter marries only another Sayyid, preferably chosen from among some exclusive classes of Sayyids. Family trees are examined and every care taken that the accepted suitor is a Sayyid both on the father's and mother's side. But many take wives from any of the four chief Muslim classes and sometimes, though rarely, from among the higher of the local or "irregular" Muslim communities. Sayyid boys' names generally end in "Ali" or "Husain," and occasionally in "Shah."

Many of the Pathan tribes in the North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan, such as the Bangash of Kohat and the Mishwanis of the Hazara border, claim Sayyid origin. The apostles who completed the conversion of the Pathans to Islam were also called "Sayyids" if they came from the west, and "Sheikhs" if they came from the east; hence, doubtless, many Pathans falsely claim Sayyid origin. In Afghanistan the Sayyids control much of the commerce, as their holy character allows them to pass unharmed where other Pathans would be murdered.

The Sayyids had a short-lived dynasty in India, which reigned at Delhi during the first half of the fifteenth century. Their name again figures in Indian history at the breakup of the Mogul Empire, when two Sayyid brothers created and dethroned emperors at their will. In 1901 the total number of Sayyids in India was 1,339,734. This number included many well-known and influential families. The first Muslim appointed to the Council to India and the first appointed to the Privy Council were both Sayyids.

Notable Sayyids:
Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani R.A- Abdul-Qadir Gilani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Ali Hajveri a.k.a DATA GANKBAKSH or DATA SAHIB R.A- Ali Hujwiri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Khawaja Moinuddin Chisti a.k.a KHAWAJA GHAREEB NAWAZ R.A- Moinuddin Chishti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Syed Muhammad Usman Shah Marwandi a.k.a LAL SHAHBAZ QALANDAR R.A-
Lal Shahbaz Qalandar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Jalauddin Muhammad Balkhi a.k.a RUMI R.A-
Rumi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Syed Abdullah Shah Qadri a.k.a BABA BULLEH SHAH R.A-
Bulleh Shah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hazrat Syed Peer Waris Shah R.A-
Waris Shah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Shaykh Ali Hajwerti R.A is not a Sayyid. He is an Usmani, like the Ottomans. He is from the lineage of Sayyiduna Uthman ibn Affan RA. That is the reason why no shia muslim,who is aware of this in Lahore ever visits his gravesite, while they frequently do at the grave of Bari Imam in Islamabad, who is a sayyid.
 

GreenFalcon

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Shaykh Ali Hajwerti R.A is not a Sayyid. He is an Usmani, like the Ottomans. He is from the lineage of Sayyiduna Uthman ibn Affan RA. That is the reason why no shia muslim,who is aware of this in Lahore ever visits his gravesite, while they frequently do at the grave of Bari Imam in Islamabad, who is a sayyid.
I didn't know that, thanks:tup:, and I know what you are talking about Imam Bari Sarkar, I've noticed that too
 

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