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Saudi Arabia's special relationship with Pakistan may be on borrowed time

jaibi

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I think it's high time we don't compromise our interests for anyone and think in more realistic terms.
 

nahtanbob

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I included the disclaimer "if managed correctly". Population growth is one factor in economic growth and will be lacking in many parts of the world over the next 100 years. It must be combined with human development, technology and proper finance for maximum effect. I am not a Malthusian....technology will allow humans to support even larger populations in the future.

Syria, Yemen, and Libya were too small and not managed well enough to deal with shocks caused by climate change and external actors. These are lessons the entire Islamic world should learn from, including KSA and GCC. Bulk and good long term planning are important for resilience against future climate and geopolitical issues. GCC's large portfolio of global dollar based assets can be wiped out by central bankers or a major financial crisis. A larger economic/military block of Islamic nations would be far more robust then GCC's hedge fund approach. Do you think China or EU care if the dollar collapses? Well that gives the GCC nightmares.
1. China and EU do care if the US dollar collapses. Plus the GCC states have massive investments in Europe.

2. You are assuming Muslims states can innovate in technology to compensate for population growth. there is zero evidence of that

3. The GCC has its shortcomings. Name one regional organization that has done better.

4. This whole thing about Islamic nation grouping is going to be a pipe dream. It sounds more like a dream in utopia than a practical working construct. You have a hard time dealing with existing divisions in your societies.
 

CrazyZ

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4. This whole thing about Islamic nation grouping is going to be a pipe dream. It sounds more like a dream in utopia than a practical working construct. You have a hard time dealing with existing divisions in your societies.
Same was true among 13 USA states in 1776. USA is dealing with blow back slavery to this day. Below is a recent pic from the USA.
1599593031981.png
 
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CrazyZ

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1. China and EU do care if the US dollar collapses. Plus the GCC states have massive investments in Europe.
Not really. Europe and China have been economic players for 1000's of years. It would be a short term disruptive inconvenience for them in the grand scheme. Their economies would rebound because of their huge internal domestic production/consumption capacities.

Name me one hedge fund that's been around for more then 50 yrs. (forget 1000's of years). GCC portfolio's could be wiped out as fast as a lightening strike from heaven.

I would also ask the Rothchild's what happened to their massive investments in Europe.....They were seized when the folks in power had a change in politics. History has a tendency to repeat itself.
 
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PK784

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Saudis themselves are on borrowed time.
This is true, SA needs oil at $80 a barrel to balance its budget. Imagine if oil never reaches this price again.
SA cant afford any more handouts.

Instead of planning for lower oil prices, the princes were busy snapping up $500mil play boats and generally focusing on self interest above that of the country.

 

Ahmet Pasha

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The moment Pakistan declined to support militarily against Yemen, SA and UAE started drifted away from Pakistan.

The drift was more visible in 2019 as both countries declined to support Pakistan on Kashmir issue. Instead both countries improved ties with India by pledging huge investment specially in Oil sector.

Meanwhile, due to continuous skirmishes by Yemen "rebels", Israel took the opportunity by initially harassing SA and UAE by covertly bombing the oil installations and then "helping" them by providing them fake intel.

Investigation of recent attacks on KSE and some other places in Baluchistan reveals covert links in UAE and SA.

UAE selling of Socotra Island to Israil put the nail on the box.

Every move from both the countries shows covert retaliation.

Should Pakistan respond in similar way or otherwise?
I say give the arab
The moment Pakistan declined to support militarily against Yemen, SA and UAE started drifted away from Pakistan.

The drift was more visible in 2019 as both countries declined to support Pakistan on Kashmir issue. Instead both countries improved ties with India by pledging huge investment specially in Oil sector.

Meanwhile, due to continuous skirmishes by Yemen "rebels", Israel took the opportunity by initially harassing SA and UAE by covertly bombing the oil installations and then "helping" them by providing them fake intel.

Investigation of recent attacks on KSE and some other places in Baluchistan reveals covert links in UAE and SA.

UAE selling of Socotra Island to Israil put the nail on the box.

Every move from both the countries shows covert retaliation.

Should Pakistan respond in similar way or otherwise?
I say give the ruling Arab Pharaohs a taste of their own medicine.
 

Ahmet Pasha

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This is true, SA needs oil at $80 a barrel to balance its budget. Imagine if oil never reaches this price again.
SA cant afford any more handouts.

Instead of planning for lower oil prices, the princes were busy snapping up $500mil play boats and generally focusing on self interest above that of the country.

So you've been watching Haqeeqat TV??
 

KaiserX

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those ships are sitting ducks to Saudi air force jets
the agosta 90 subs are quite old
I dont personally insult imbeciles but You are an idiot to another level

How is the saudi AF gonna target underwater subs???

Secondly your AF is more loyal to Pakistan son since it is 80% Pakistani pilots flying, manning, and logistically supporting your AF. ISI has all cordinates and intelligence. Your AF are lackies who are more loyal to the saudi family than their motherland or islam. Your whole nation is farse... look at your name... KINGDOM OF SAUDI arabia... arabia comes last son. KING and SAUDI FAMILY come before that.

You are a loyal hogwash to a clown, the most pitiful of muslims. The prophets would throw lanat on your people.

Hell I dont support Pakistan not recognizing israel but their is a degree of self respect in that our founder (quad-e-azam) policy is still alive today. and you clowns??? ha you are bombing poor muslims in yemen, supporting terrorist from lebanon to Pakistan. The day Pakistan wants you wiped out a nuke dropped on Riyadh would do and IA 90% of the muslims worlds problems would be resolved... believe me beta we would be 1000x more resourceful with your oil than your sheihk daddies ever were.

Let me tell you one thing... arabs can never manage nor defend themselves. The Ottomans ruled you properly for almost thousand years... Pakistan provided you protection for decades...now your daddy USA defends you. That is the ONLY REASON why you havnt met the same faith as Bin Laden, Sadam, or Gaddafi. You are loyal dogs to Israel. Your people have 0 self respect for other muslims nor themselves. Look how muslims are treated in Turkey, Europe, Pakistan, or US and compare that to the KINGDOM OF SAUDI CLOWNS. If the Turks ruled you even as slaves that would have been better for Islam and the region.

I have friends who were in the US military and stationed in KSA, I cant even begin to tell you half the stories theyve told me of your kind :D
 
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nahtanbob

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I dont personally insult imbeciles but You are an idiot to another level

How is the saudi AF gonna target underwater subs???

Secondly your AF is more loyal to Pakistan son since it is 80% Pakistani pilots flying, manning, and logistically supporting your AF. ISI has all cordinates and intelligence. Your AF are lackies who are more loyal to the saudi family than their motherland or islam. Your whole nation is farse... look at your name... KINGDOM OF SAUDI arabia... arabia comes last son. KING and SAUDI FAMILY come before that.

You are a loyal hogwash to a clown, the most pitiful of muslims. The prophets would throw lanat on your people.

Hell I dont support Pakistan not recognizing israel but their is a degree of self respect in that our founder (quad-e-azam) policy is still alive today. and you clowns??? ha you are bombing poor muslims in yemen, supporting terrorist from lebanon to Pakistan. The day Pakistan wants you wiped out a nuke dropped on Riyadh would do and IA 90% of the muslims worlds problems would be resolved... believe me beta we would be 1000x more resourceful with your oil than your sheihk daddies ever were.

Let me tell you one thing... arabs can never manage nor defend themselves. The Ottomans ruled you properly for almost thousand years... Pakistan provided you protection for decades...now your daddy USA defends you. That is the ONLY REASON why you havnt met the same faith as Bin Laden, Sadam, or Gaddafi. You are loyal dogs to Israel. Your people have 0 self respect for other muslims nor themselves. Look how muslims are treated in Turkey, Europe, Pakistan, or US and compare that to the KINGDOM OF SAUDI CLOWNS. If the Turks ruled you even as slaves that would have been better for Islam and the region.

I have friends who were in the US military and stationed in KSA, I cant even begin to tell you half the stories theyve told me of your kind :D
pakistanis flying the F-16s, F-15s and Tornadoes ?? keep dreaming

i am not here to defend the policies of the Saudi monarchy. If the Saudis are as pathetic as you claim what does one make of the Pakistani generals who fall over themselves pledging to defend the House of Saud. What do I make of the all PDFers who support those Pakistani generals ?
 

Marker

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Saudi Family belongs to a baduin tribe, Al Muqrin.

After fall of Ottoman empire, they slowly took the Arabian peninsula and form Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Most of the Saudi rulers (with the exception of few like King Faisal) were the puppets of the west.

However, in the past, Pakistan had very good relationship with this country.

After the denial of military support, by Pakistani Parliament, against Yemeni rebels, this close relationship started loosing.

Relationship further drifted after designation of Muhammad Salman as Crown Prince of the Kingdom.

Not supporting Kashmir issue and pledging heavy investment in Indian oil sector were the clear indications that the relationship with Pakistan had now gone very soar.

Now their are very strong rumors that KSA is financially supporting BLA and PTM terrorists to dislodge CPEC.

If these rumors are correct, than this act must be considered as declaration of cold war against the Saudi Ruling Janta. ISI can dot lot more to dislodge the corrupt ruling Janta of KSA and its ally UAE.
 

Marker

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pakistanis flying the F-16s, F-15s and Tornadoes ?? keep dreaming

i am not here to defend the policies of the Saudi monarchy. If the Saudis are as pathetic as you claim what does one make of the Pakistani generals who fall over themselves pledging to defend the House of Saud. What do I make of the all PDFers who support those Pakistani generals ?
Pakistan never pledge to defend the house of Saud. The army unit present in KSA are for defense of Mecca and Madina. Nothing more and nothing less.
 

Figaro

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That is the most pathetic statement I have ever read on this forum.

Saudis cannot maintain or fly their own aircraft. The Iranians pounded them last year with a few cruise missiles and drones. Their patriot missile systems where completely useless due to their inaptitude. The Saudi military is world renowned to be a armed force full of neptosism and corruption. The royals do not favor merit in their armed forces but instead loyalty to those who support the kingdom ie family ties, business ties, etc... due to this the saudis are incompetent to handle any type of modern weaponery.

Their failures from yemen, to syria, to iran prove the point in every sense. Why are saudis so desperate to station more american troops in the kingdom? why are the saudis desperate for Pakistani military support vis via yemen, syria, iran??? Hell why do the Saudis take any chance they get to pay big $$$ for Pakistani military advistors??? You my friend must be smoking some good shit as they say.

Tell me as a muslim who are the biggest sinners according to the Prophet (PBUH)??? those who waste $$$ on anything. The saudis spend $500 billion USD in the last 4 years and still cant fly or maintain a half decent air force, whereby Pakistan is building its own UCAV drones and 4th generation jets equiped with AESA which the saudis dont even have until now. Let alones our huge investment and domestic infrastructure to develop missiles/nukes.

Pakistan can pound the Saudis into submission within a matter of days even without nukes if it came to it. Hell our F-7s and Mirages would be a huge task for their Eurofighters/F-15s to deal with judging from their incompetence. They cant even handle a few drones from Iran. Technically from Balochistan our long range artillery can pound Dubai/Saudi. If Pakistan hit a few oil facilities and air bases with cruise missiles/ballistic missiles you think India/USA would risk a nuclear war with Pakistan over Saudi??? We can take Riyadh and who would stop us or risk nuclear war with us???? :D

Only our love of the 2 holy mosques stops us from destroying these camel jockies
The Maverick is one of the most inept Indian members when it comes to military analysis. He deliberately says these provocative things so you can write this very detailed long response, which he won't even bother to read. The Saudis are a primary example of how an overwhelming technologically advanced military cannot achieve its objectives due to sheer incompetence. I'd assume the Indians with their Rafales will more or less reflect this type of failure.
 

nahtanbob

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Most of the Saudi rulers (with the exception of few like King Faisal) were the puppets of the west.

However, in the past, Pakistan had very good relationship with this country.

Not supporting Kashmir issue and pledging heavy investment in Indian oil sector were the clear indications that the relationship with Pakistan had now gone very soar.
You contradict yourself - pakistan has no problem with the Saudis being puppets of the West as long as Pakistan benefited

Explain how Saudi stance on Kashmir has ever mattered. Have they delivered anything other than toothless resolutions. Has the irony of begging an autocrat on matters of self-determination ever mattered ?

You are misreading Saudi investment in a private Indian oil company. Saudi investment in Indian oil sector is a favor to Saudi Arabia not a favor to India. There are humpteen wealth funds in New York that would love to invest in Indian energy markets but are restricted by politicians in Delhi
 

nahtanbob

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Pakistan never pledge to defend the house of Saud. The army unit present in KSA are for defense of Mecca and Madina. Nothing more and nothing less.
Who are the custodians of Mecca and Madina ?
As a practical matter who are we trying to fool ?
 

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