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Saudi Arabia's special relationship with Pakistan may be on borrowed time

KaiserX

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I am in favor of good relations with the Gulf. I understand that terms will not be the same as they have been in the past. That said, Pakistan has less to fear then many think. The world today may be a good representation of the future for the gulf in a few decades when the renewable energy and electric/hydrogen vehicles may surpass fossil fuel transportation. Pakistan can relay on agricultural, service and manufacturing exports with a huge young low cost workforce modeled on East Asia. Life after oil may not be so easy on the gulf in coming decades.

We finally have a civilian government that is interested in sustainable economic growth and development. Military and SBP are actively working with the new regime on this goal. The fruits are being shown to the whole world....we have been robust during the global crisis and are rebounding quickly.

KSA and GCC could have worked toward building an EU style economic bloc of friendly Islamic nations.....one that could have been an economic juggernaut in its right in my assessment. And far more sustainable than a large portfolio of global dollar based assets that can be wiped out by central bankers or a black swan financial crisis. They decided to go the latter route, unfortunately. We wait and see what happens.
There is no need for good or bad relations with the gulf, just simply amicable relations built on respect. The gulf is sinking into the abyss. Their 2 major sectors ie tourism/oil are in a freefall. Most expats are on their way out. Most of the educated expats have already left due to the ability to work remote from their home countries. The GCC today is far less influential than the GCC from 5 years back and its influence will only continue to decline going into the future.

We have given way to much protection to these sheihkdoms and royals with nothing to show in return. I say its time to turn up the pressure on these sheihks and start showing our stick. I doubt they will be a huge market for our exports in a way China, EU, or USA can be but there is a huge opportunity to build refineries and re-export their refined petroleum products from the gulf via gwadar.

An islamic bloc is completely out of question. We should strive for stronger relations with Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, and other like minded nations. We should also try to improve relations with Tehran (if they are willing to give up BLA terrorist to us). Simply put our interest in the gulf should be based off of increasing our export dollars, and nothing more.
 

nahtanbob

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That is the most pathetic statement I have ever read on this forum.

Saudis cannot maintain or fly their own aircraft. The Iranians pounded them last year with a few cruise missiles and drones. Their patriot missile systems where completely useless due to their inaptitude. The Saudi military is world renowned to be a armed force full of neptosism and corruption. The royals do not favor merit in their armed forces but instead loyalty to those who support the kingdom ie family ties, business ties, etc... due to this the saudis are incompetent to handle any type of modern weaponery.

Their failures from yemen, to syria, to iran prove the point in every sense. Why are saudis so desperate to station more american troops in the kingdom? why are the saudis desperate for Pakistani military support vis via yemen, syria, iran??? Hell why do the Saudis take any chance they get to pay big $$$ for Pakistani military advistors??? You my friend must be smoking some good shit as they say.

Tell me as a muslim who are the biggest sinners according to the Prophet (PBUH)??? those who waste $$$ on anything. The saudis spend $500 billion USD in the last 4 years and still cant fly or maintain a half decent air force, whereby Pakistan is building its own UCAV drones and 4th generation jets equiped with AESA which the saudis dont even have until now. Let alones our huge investment and domestic infrastructure to develop missiles/nukes.

Pakistan can pound the Saudis into submission within a matter of days even without nukes if it came to it. Hell our F-7s and Mirages would be a huge task for their Eurofighters/F-15s to deal with judging from their incompetence. They cant even handle a few drones from Iran. Technically from Balochistan our long range artillery can pound Dubai/Saudi. If Pakistan hit a few oil facilities and air bases with cruise missiles/ballistic missiles you think India/USA would risk a nuclear war with Pakistan over Saudi??? We can take Riyadh and who would stop us or risk nuclear war with us???? :D

Only our love of the 2 holy mosques stops us from destroying these camel jockies
your ability to project military power across the Arabian Sea is zero
 

KaiserX

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your ability to project military power across the Arabian Sea is zero
Son you are almost 4 years late...



Pakistan will have upto 11 AIP babur equiped subs within a few years and 4+ Type 054p also equiped with baburs. We can hit you from the red sea, indian ocean, PERSIAN gulf, from all angles :D your patriot batteries will be so confused they will shoot down your own aircrafts lol

And best of all??? all manufactured at home, from the cruise missiles to the subs to the frigates.

Lastly no navy can fight a total war against a nation on its own except the US navy. Cruise missiles would be used for a initial shock and awe. I doubt the PN can launch more than 40-50 cruise missiles at once.
 

nahtanbob

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Son you are almost 4 years late...



Pakistan will have upto 11 AIP babur equiped subs within a few years and 4+ Type 054p also equiped with baburs. We can hit you from the red sea, indian ocean, PERSIAN gulf, from all angles :D your patriot batteries will be so confused they will shoot down your own aircrafts lol

And best of all??? all manufactured at home, from the cruise missiles to the subs to the frigates.

Lastly no navy can fight a total war against a nation on its own except the US navy. Cruise missiles would be used for a initial shock and awe. I doubt the PN can launch more than 40-50 cruise missiles at once.
You do not have the subs right now
 

Rollno21

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That is the most pathetic statement I have ever read on this forum.

Saudis cannot maintain or fly their own aircraft. The Iranians pounded them last year with a few cruise missiles and drones. Their patriot missile systems where completely useless due to their inaptitude. The Saudi military is world renowned to be a armed force full of neptosism and corruption. The royals do not favor merit in their armed forces but instead loyalty to those who support the kingdom ie family ties, business ties, etc... due to this the saudis are incompetent to handle any type of modern weaponery.

Their failures from yemen, to syria, to iran prove the point in every sense. Why are saudis so desperate to station more american troops in the kingdom? why are the saudis desperate for Pakistani military support vis via yemen, syria, iran??? Hell why do the Saudis take any chance they get to pay big $$$ for Pakistani military advistors??? You my friend must be smoking some good shit as they say.

Tell me as a muslim who are the biggest sinners according to the Prophet (PBUH)??? those who waste $$$ on anything. The saudis spend $500 billion USD in the last 4 years and still cant fly or maintain a half decent air force, whereby Pakistan is building its own UCAV drones and 4th generation jets equiped with AESA which the saudis dont even have until now. Let alones our huge investment and domestic infrastructure to develop missiles/nukes.

Pakistan can pound the Saudis into submission within a matter of days even without nukes if it came to it. Hell our F-7s and Mirages would be a huge task for their Eurofighters/F-15s to deal with judging from their incompetence. They cant even handle a few drones from Iran. Technically from Balochistan our long range artillery can pound Dubai/Saudi. If Pakistan hit a few oil facilities and air bases with cruise missiles/ballistic missiles you think India/USA would risk a nuclear war with Pakistan over Saudi??? We can take Riyadh and who would stop us or risk nuclear war with us???? :D

Only our love of the 2 holy mosques stops us from destroying these camel jockies
Pakistan can do jack to KSA.what will you do with Pakistanies returning who send remittance from GCC.more over if you threaten the holy places in KSA ,countries like us who have huge Muslim population will protect KSA
 

PakFactor

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Pakistan can do jack to KSA.what will you do with Pakistanies returning who send remittance from GCC.more over if you threaten the holy places in KSA ,countries like us who have huge Muslim population will protect KSA
Saudis couldn’t fight against Houthi’s properly who were slapping the Gulf Forces around even UAE pulled out after a shit show performance after collecting expensive toys last 30+ years. Pakistan has survived without remittance in the past and it’s not going to make or break us, we’ve been through far worse. Firstly your own Muslims are being lynched in broad day light, are treated like Dalits so you should be the last ones talking about protecting KSA. As for what Pakistan can do we can do a lot more to KSA militarily if we wanted to; just look at Feb 27th you enuchs couldn’t do anything back and you think the Saudis would be any different.
 

PakFactor

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That is the most pathetic statement I have ever read on this forum.

Saudis cannot maintain or fly their own aircraft. The Iranians pounded them last year with a few cruise missiles and drones. Their patriot missile systems where completely useless due to their inaptitude. The Saudi military is world renowned to be a armed force full of neptosism and corruption. The royals do not favor merit in their armed forces but instead loyalty to those who support the kingdom ie family ties, business ties, etc... due to this the saudis are incompetent to handle any type of modern weaponery.

Their failures from yemen, to syria, to iran prove the point in every sense. Why are saudis so desperate to station more american troops in the kingdom? why are the saudis desperate for Pakistani military support vis via yemen, syria, iran??? Hell why do the Saudis take any chance they get to pay big $$$ for Pakistani military advistors??? You my friend must be smoking some good shit as they say.

Tell me as a muslim who are the biggest sinners according to the Prophet (PBUH)??? those who waste $$$ on anything. The saudis spend $500 billion USD in the last 4 years and still cant fly or maintain a half decent air force, whereby Pakistan is building its own UCAV drones and 4th generation jets equiped with AESA which the saudis dont even have until now. Let alones our huge investment and domestic infrastructure to develop missiles/nukes.

Pakistan can pound the Saudis into submission within a matter of days even without nukes if it came to it. Hell our F-7s and Mirages would be a huge task for their Eurofighters/F-15s to deal with judging from their incompetence. They cant even handle a few drones from Iran. Technically from Balochistan our long range artillery can pound Dubai/Saudi. If Pakistan hit a few oil facilities and air bases with cruise missiles/ballistic missiles you think India/USA would risk a nuclear war with Pakistan over Saudi??? We can take Riyadh and who would stop us or risk nuclear war with us???? :D

Only our love of the 2 holy mosques stops us from destroying these camel jockies
Don’t need to argue with these bhangees — they act as if expensive toys will make a difference they’ve not learned from their own experience and the bat beating the Chinese has given them. Most of all they will never learn as their delusional and living in a different world.
 

KaiserX

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Don’t need to argue with these bhangees — they act as if expensive toys will make a difference they’ve not learned from their own experience and the bat beating the Chinese has given them. Most of all they will never learn as their delusional and living in a different world.
Bhangees seem the be learning from the Saudis on how to handle modern weaponery :D
 

nahtanbob

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We live in interesting times. We must change our thinking to compensate. From clearly theoretical perspective and ignoring the current geopolitical realities, Islamic nations are actually in a time were joining up into a larger bloc makes more sense then ever. The new cold war with the dollar future status in question. Plus the fact that bulk of the worlds future population growth will come largely from Muslim regions. Population growth is one factor in potential economic growth (combined with human development, technology and finance). One can argue if managed correctly, that the future economic growth potential of the Islamic world 100 to 200 years out as a whole is better than Europe, North America, East Asia or India's (as these regions with go into demographic decline over the same period). Not sure that OIC is willing to take any actions on a broader economic pact? If not a new bloc is needed.
population growth can fuel economic growth
it can also cause a collapse in society - Syria, Yemen, Libya
 

CrazyZ

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population growth can fuel economic growth
it can also cause a collapse in society - Syria, Yemen, Libya
I included the disclaimer "if managed correctly". Population growth is one factor in economic growth and will be lacking in many parts of the world over the next 100 years. It must be combined with human development, technology and proper finance for maximum effect. I am not a Malthusian....technology will allow humans to support even larger populations in the future.

Syria, Yemen, and Libya were too small and not managed well enough to deal with shocks caused by climate change and external actors. These are lessons the entire Islamic world should learn from, including KSA and GCC. Bulk and good long term planning are important for resilience against future climate and geopolitical issues. GCC's large portfolio of global dollar based assets can be wiped out by central bankers or a major financial crisis. A larger economic/military block of Islamic nations would be far more robust then GCC's hedge fund approach. Do you think China or EU care if the dollar collapses? Well that gives the GCC nightmares.
 
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CrazyZ

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Saudis themselves are on borrowed time.
I don't think it should be called Saudi Arabia anymore....MBS is arresting his own Saudi family members on large scale...Something not really seen in KSA's past. KSA will soon change its name to Mohammed bin Salman Arabia.
 
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Marker

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The moment Pakistan declined to support militarily against Yemen, SA and UAE started drifted away from Pakistan.

The drift was more visible in 2019 as both countries declined to support Pakistan on Kashmir issue. Instead both countries improved ties with India by pledging huge investment specially in Oil sector.

Meanwhile, due to continuous skirmishes by Yemen "rebels", Israel took the opportunity by initially harassing SA and UAE by covertly bombing the oil installations and then "helping" them by providing them fake intel.

Investigation of recent attacks on KSE and some other places in Baluchistan reveals covert links in UAE and SA.

UAE selling of Socotra Island to Israil put the nail on the box.

Every move from both the countries shows covert retaliation.

Should Pakistan respond in similar way or otherwise?
 

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