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Saudi Arabia's special relationship with Pakistan may be on borrowed time

PakFactor

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cant we move on without noises sir ? why all this fuss it can be done silently too .
Basically to make the common man aware of what’s been happening for such a long time and creating awareness past governments never were upfront about their policies and the ramifications those decisions had for the country.

Most importantly to educate our religious folks that’s it’s not all good as it’s made out to be and they need to introspect themselves as well. This was the only way to create a discussion that would bring them onboard as well.

The goal here is to glue the common man with the religious side and make them make the walk same path now after showing them the Gulf faces.
 

Bagheera

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Its first time in history that Pakistan is taking charge of its destiny and no amount of hierarchal arm twisting can halt it. Not even those loc violations orchestrated somewhere outside south Asia can stop us to double the efforts for sabotaging the world's biggest market an trade interests associated with it unless we get what was promised by the un.
Don't tell your age. That's personal. But do tell the range of your age. 18-30 or 31-40 or 41-50 or 51-60? Which group are you in at present?

- PRTP GWD
 

The Maverick

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Let's be honest
Saudi do not really need Pakistan for any thing
This special relationship may have been special only in your Pakistani eyes .
The Saudis have their own national interests they are a different race and culture and will.do what's right for Saudi nation only
Religion is a separate issue to national interest
 

HAIDER

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Let's be honest
Saudi do not really need Pakistan for any thing
This special relationship may have been special only in your Pakistani eyes .
The Saudis have their own national interests they are a different race and culture and will.do what's right for Saudi nation only
Religion is a separate issue to national interest
It is misconception. Saudi need Pakistan and PA knows it very well. Why ... let's leave it here ... give a very simple fact , between royals and hardcore is only PA standing. Saudis are extremely impress due to PA professionalism. Otherwise any other 2 div takeover the entire country with such weak govt. Check the pages of history... where the country entire defence mechanism is run by US and Pak military professionals. So, please never underestimate your people and armed forces.
 

The Maverick

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The Saudi military 3 decades ahead of Pakistani

World class infrastcture

Equipment state of the art

10 times pakistani budget.

ThOUSANDS of USA UK french service men and technicians work in Saudi

Pakistanis have no experience on saudi hi tech equipment . you have nothing to offer them



They
 

PakFactor

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Sep 30, 2019
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The Saudi military 3 decades ahead of Pakistani

World class infrastcture

Equipment state of the art

10 times pakistani budget.

ThOUSANDS of USA UK french service men and technicians work in Saudi

Pakistanis have no experience on saudi hi tech equipment . you have nothing to offer them



They
Issue with people of your mind set (and still haven't learned from Feb 27th 2019) is if you have incompetent officers and soldiers no amount of high tech equipment will save you; and that big budget is useless as well.
 

HAIDER

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The Saudi military 3 decades ahead of Pakistani

World class infrastcture

Equipment state of the art

10 times pakistani budget.

ThOUSANDS of USA UK french service men and technicians work in Saudi

Pakistanis have no experience on saudi hi tech equipment . you have nothing to offer them



They
Example for you , Shah of Iran bought AWACS from US , after the revolution those AWACS were sold to KSA. Since 1979 those AWACS are operated and maintained by US crew and technicians..... imagine the local armed forces professionalism ..
 

ejaz007

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Pakistan's balancing act may be failing
Pakistan's strategy to keep good relations with everyone is no longer working in an increasingly polarised Muslim world.
by Abdul Basit & Zahid Shahab Ahmed
31 Aug 2020

Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman meets with Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia on October 15, 2019 [File: Reuters]

Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman meets with Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia on October 15, 2019 [File: Reuters]
MORE ON PAKISTAN
Earlier this month, the long-simmering tensions between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia came to a boil when Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi publicly criticised the kingdom for its perceived lack of support for Islamabad's interests in the disputed Kashmir region.

During a televised interview on August 4, Qureshi said Islamabad expects the Jeddah-based Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) to convene a meeting on Kashmir. Otherwise, he said, Pakistan would be "compelled" to "call a meeting of the Islamic countries that are ready to stand with us on the issue of Kashmir". Qureshi’s comments have widely been viewed as a veiled threat to create a new bloc that would rival the Saudi-dominated OIC.

In response, Saudi Arabia withdrew a $1bn loan it had extended to Pakistan in November 2018, when the country was in dire economic straits and required foreign reserves to avoid a possible sovereign default. The kingdom has also refused to renew a deferred oil payments scheme that was part of the same package.

In a bid to control the damage, on August 17, Pakistan's Chief of Army Staff General Qamar Javed Bajwa rushed to Riyadh. However, the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) did not grant an audience to Bajwa, and the powerful military chief abruptly returned to Islamabad after holding a short meeting with Saudi Deputy Defence Minister Khalid bin Salman bin Abdulaziz.

Soon after General Bajwa landed in Pakistan, Qureshi left for China, sending a clear message to the kingdom that Islamabad is diversifying its alliances and re-evaluating the value of its strategic partnership with Riyadh.

The latest diplomatic spat between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan should be seen in the broader context of recent strategic realignments in the Middle East and the Muslim world. For some time, Pakistan has been struggling to keep to its traditional policy of maintaining neutral relations with rival Muslim powers. While Islamabad is concerned about the deepening strategic and economic cooperation between its arch-rival India and a group of Arab states led by Saudi Arabia, Riyadh is equally frustrated by Pakistan's overtures towards Muslim-majority states it views as hostile, such as Turkey, Malaysia and Qatar.

Furthermore, the proposed Iran-China deal that is due to make both Islamabad and Tehran important nodes in Beijing's Belt and Road Initiative is expected to change the dynamics of Pakistan's relations with Iran. Saudi Arabia, which views Iran as the main threat to its regional and global ambitions, is concerned about the possible emergence of a new partnership between Iran and Pakistan under the stewardship of China.

After India's August 2019 move to revoke Indian-administered Kashmir's semi-autonomous status, Pakistan expected Arab states to ferociously endorse its Kashmir policy. However, Saudi Arabia - and its Gulf allies, such as the United Arab Emirates (UAE) - failed to take a strong stance against India, frustrating Islamabad.

The Gulf states have balanced their dealings with Pakistan and India in the past. But now, it seems, they are openly moving closer to India and away from Pakistan.

This new strategy was on display during MBS's February 2019 tour of South Asia. The Saudi Crown Prince not only made the unprecedented move of visiting India directly after Pakistan, but also promised to make larger investments in India than he did in Pakistan. After signing a memorandum of understanding valued at about $20bn to help prop up Pakistan's economy, MBS said in New Delhi that he expects Riyadh's investments in India "to exceed $100bn in the coming two years".

A few weeks later, in March 2019, the UAE also made it clear that it is seeking closer ties with India at the expense of Pakistan, when it invited India's Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj as a guest of honour to the OIC summit it was due to host. Pakistani Foreign Minister Qureshi pulled out of the summit in protest, but failed to make the UAE rescind its invitation to India.

Today, Saudi Arabia has several reasons to value its deepening partnership with India more than its historic ties to Pakistan. While the annual trade between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia stands at around $3.6bn, Saudi-India bilateral trade is worth more than $30bn. This trade differential partially explains, despite persistent Pakistani requests, why Riyadh has avoided raising the Kashmir issue beyond mere tokenism. Unlike Pakistan, Saudis do not take a zero-sum view of their growing economic cooperation with India. In fact, economic overtures towards India are part of MBS's post-oil economic diversification efforts.

Furthermore, the new government in Pakistan is moving closer to Turkey and Malaysia - two countries that Saudi Arabia views as challengers to its prominence within the Muslim world. Last December, Pakistan caved in to Saudi pressure and pulled out of the Kuala Lumpur summit, which was perceived by many as an attempt to replace the Saudi-controlled OIC. The embarrassment it suffered over the affair made Islamabad more eager to carve out some autonomous policy space to safeguard its vital strategic interests without perpetually depending on its Arab allies. As a result of Pakistan's efforts to be more autonomous, which moved it closer to Riyadh's rivals in the Muslim world, Saudi Arabia started to perceive Pakistan more as a potential rival than a loyal ally. This too likely makes the Saudi leadership less eager to lash out at India over Kashmir.

While Pakistan is undoubtedly well aware of Saudi Arabia's move away from itself and towards India, given its economic dependence on the kingdom, it cannot afford to sever its ties with Riyadh completely. This is why Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan recently played down his country's differences with Saudi Arabia, claiming that the "rumours" about a rift between Riyadh and Islamabad are "totally false".

Amid ongoing strategic realignments in the Middle East and the wider world, we are likely to see many more ups and downs in the relations between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan in the coming days. It appears Saudi Arabia will continue to move closer to India, ignoring Pakistani demands for support on Kashmir. Pakistan, meanwhile, is unlikely to give up on its diverse partnerships and return to Saudi Arabia's orbit. While some friction seems unavoidable, the two long-time allies can prevent further fraying by assuming a pragmatic approach and working to strengthen ties in areas of convergence, such as security.

Editor's note: A previous version of this article wrongly referred to Chief of Army Staff General Qamar Javed Bajwa as Lieutenant-General. The article also erranously claimed Saudi Arabia's $1bn loan to Pakistan was interest free, this has now been corrected.

The views expressed in this article are the authors' own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial stance.



 

Figaro

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What are you smoking brother? :drag::drag::drag:
Issue with people of your mind set (and still haven't learned from Feb 27th 2019) is if you have incompetent officers and soldiers no amount of high tech equipment will save you; and that big budget is useless as well.
Saudi Arabia's military is on average more advanced than that of the Pakistanis, but definitely not by three decades. And you are correct ... the Saudis have routine demonstrated the operator matters just as much as using the weaponry. The way they have been employing state of the art American weaponry in their combat ops is sorely lacking to say the least.
 

KaiserX

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The Saudi military 3 decades ahead of Pakistani

World class infrastcture

Equipment state of the art

10 times pakistani budget.

ThOUSANDS of USA UK french service men and technicians work in Saudi

Pakistanis have no experience on saudi hi tech equipment . you have nothing to offer them



They
That is the most pathetic statement I have ever read on this forum.

Saudis cannot maintain or fly their own aircraft. The Iranians pounded them last year with a few cruise missiles and drones. Their patriot missile systems where completely useless due to their inaptitude. The Saudi military is world renowned to be a armed force full of neptosism and corruption. The royals do not favor merit in their armed forces but instead loyalty to those who support the kingdom ie family ties, business ties, etc... due to this the saudis are incompetent to handle any type of modern weaponery.

Their failures from yemen, to syria, to iran prove the point in every sense. Why are saudis so desperate to station more american troops in the kingdom? why are the saudis desperate for Pakistani military support vis via yemen, syria, iran??? Hell why do the Saudis take any chance they get to pay big $$$ for Pakistani military advistors??? You my friend must be smoking some good shit as they say.

Tell me as a muslim who are the biggest sinners according to the Prophet (PBUH)??? those who waste $$$ on anything. The saudis spend $500 billion USD in the last 4 years and still cant fly or maintain a half decent air force, whereby Pakistan is building its own UCAV drones and 4th generation jets equiped with AESA which the saudis dont even have until now. Let alones our huge investment and domestic infrastructure to develop missiles/nukes.

Pakistan can pound the Saudis into submission within a matter of days even without nukes if it came to it. Hell our F-7s and Mirages would be a huge task for their Eurofighters/F-15s to deal with judging from their incompetence. They cant even handle a few drones from Iran. Technically from Balochistan our long range artillery can pound Dubai/Saudi. If Pakistan hit a few oil facilities and air bases with cruise missiles/ballistic missiles you think India/USA would risk a nuclear war with Pakistan over Saudi??? We can take Riyadh and who would stop us or risk nuclear war with us???? :D

Only our love of the 2 holy mosques stops us from destroying these camel jockies
 
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KaiserX

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What are you smoking brother? :drag::drag::drag:

Saudi Arabia's military is on average more advanced than that of the Pakistanis, but definitely not by three decades. And you are correct ... the Saudis have routine demonstrated the operator matters just as much as using the weaponry. The way they have been employing state of the art American weaponry in their combat ops is sorely lacking to say the least.
Have you seen how the saudis faired in Yemen? The rag tag houthis blew the Saudis into oblivian. Hell the videos are all over Youtube of them blowing up saudi abrams, APCs, butchering saudi troops.

What good is all your top notch Abrams, Bradley IFVS, F-15s, Patriots, Eurofighters, if you cant even take on Iranians in yemen or Iraqis in kuwait. You know what american marines think the most of Saudi army personel? as a bunch of drunks who can outdrink even the Americans.
 

CrazyZ

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I am in favor of good relations with the Gulf. I understand that terms will not be the same as they have been in the past. That said, Pakistan has less to fear then many think. The world today may be a good representation of the future for the gulf in a few decades when the renewable energy and electric/hydrogen vehicles may surpass fossil fuel transportation. Pakistan can relay on agricultural, service and manufacturing exports with a huge young low cost workforce modeled on East Asia. Life after oil may not be so easy on the gulf in coming decades.

We finally have a civilian government that is interested in sustainable economic growth and development. Military and SBP are actively working with the new regime on this goal. The fruits are being shown to the whole world....we have been robust during the global crisis and are rebounding quickly.

KSA and GCC could have worked toward building an EU style economic bloc of friendly Islamic nations.....one that could have been an economic juggernaut in its right in my assessment. And far more sustainable than a large portfolio of global dollar based assets that can be wiped out by central bankers or a black swan financial crisis. They decided to go the latter route, unfortunately. We wait and see what happens.
 
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