What's new

Saudi Arabia's first nuclear reactor nearly finished, sparking fears over safeguards

The SC

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 13, 2012
30,360
21
32,725
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
Any piece of evidence for a centrifuge or heavy water reactor? Not civil reactor.
Are you serious about your knowledge?

Heavy water is to produce Plutonium mostly.. Uranium enrichment is something else..

Centrifuges!?.. can you believe that Libya got hold of their designs and KSA not.. and even much better ones..?

Ask yourself these questions..

Are you an MI6 spy.. HaHaHa!
 

Shawnee

SENIOR MEMBER
Jan 22, 2020
2,865
-1
4,451
Country
United States
Location
United Kingdom
Are you serious about your knowledge?

Heavy water is to produce Plutonium mostly.. Uranium enrichment is something else..

Centrifuges!?.. can you believe that Libya got hold of their designs and KSA not.. and even much better ones..?

Ask yourself these questions..

Are you an MI6 spy.. HaHaHa!

You need U235 or Plutonium.
Preferably U235
That is the bottleneck.
Not yellow cake
Not implosion lenses
Not bridgewires

Libya did not have the engineering background to use the single centrifuge obtained and gave up.

Khan:
In the end it is all about enrichment.
 

The SC

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 13, 2012
30,360
21
32,725
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
You need U235 or Plutonium.
Preferably U235
That is the bottleneck.
Not yellow cake
Not implosion lenses
Not bridgewires

Libya did not have the engineering background to use the single centrifuge obtained and gave up.

Khan:
In the end it is all about enrichment.
It all starts with the yellow cake.. and no one gets involved in it without having centrifuges.. don't think Iran has advanced ones, and KSA doesn't..
 
Last edited:

Corruptistan

FULL MEMBER
May 28, 2022
1,154
0
1,507
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
A thing that shocked me a bit.

Outside of Pakistan, there are only 2 nuclear power plants in the Muslim world. German constructed Bushehr in Iran (later Russia helped keep it running) with 915 MWe and the newly build impressive Barakah (South Korean constructed) with 2690 MWe.


Pathetic state of affairs once again.
 
Last edited:

Corruptistan

FULL MEMBER
May 28, 2022
1,154
0
1,507
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan

Revealed: Saudi Arabia may have enough uranium ore to produce nuclear fuel​


Confidential Chinese report seen by the Guardian intensifies concerns about possible weapons programme

Emma Graham-Harrison, Stephanie Kirchgaessnerand Julian Borger
Thu 17 Sep 2020 17.22 BST

Saudi Arabia likely has enough mineable uranium ore reserves to pave the way for the domestic production of nuclear fuel, according to confidential documents seen by the Guardian.

Details of the stocks are contained in reports prepared for the kingdom by Chinese geologists, who have been scrambling to help Riyadh map its uranium reserves at breakneck speed as part of their nuclear energy cooperation agreement.


The disclosure will intensify concerns about Riyadh’s interest in an atomic weapons programme.

The survey report describes how geologists worked all year round despite blistering summer heat to identify reserves that could produce over 90,000 tonnes of uranium from three major deposits in the centre and northwest of the country.

These are “inferred deposits”, estimated from initial surveys. Further exploration would be needed to confirm uranium reserves and calculate the cost of extraction.

Saudi Arabia has been open about its ambition to extract uranium domestically, with a senior official describing it in 2017 as a step towards “self-sufficiency” in producing nuclear fuel for an energy programme.

The 2019 survey suggests that the reserves could potentially provide Saudi Arabia with both fuel for the reactors it wants to build, and surplus for export.

The Guardian could not independently verify the authenticity of the report, compiled by the Beijing Research Institute of Uranium Geology (BRIUG) and China National Nuclear Corporation (CNNC), working with the Saudi Geological Survey.

“If some of these became actually viable deposits – and there’s no way of knowing whether that’s possible or not – the actual amounts are probably going to be well in excess of what a power plant, or a few power plants would need,” said Prof Kip Jeffrey, head of Camborne school of mines at the University of Exeter.

If Saudi Arabia is able to mine sufficient uranium domestically, rather than relying on foreign providers, it could give the kingdom a boost toward creating its own weapons programme, experts say.

“If you are considering nuclear weapons development, the more indigenous your nuclear program is, the better. In some cases, foreign suppliers of uranium will require peaceful-use commitments from end users, so if your uranium is indigenous, you don’t have to be concerned about that constraint,” said Mark Hibbs, senior fellow in the nuclear policy program at the Carnegie Endowment for Peace.

Another expert, Bruce Riedel at the Brookings Institution, said the information showed that the Saudis were “aggressively pursuing the prerequisites” for either an energy or weapons programme and that securing a domestic source of uranium would boost their effort.

The kingdom’s nuclear ambitions have become a source of heightened concern in the US Congress and among allies, particularly since Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman declared in 2018 that if regional rival Iran develops a nuclear bomb, “we will follow suit as soon as possible”.

The greatest international concern is over the kingdom’s lack of transparency. Under a 2005 agreement with the International Atomic EnergyAgency (IAEA), Saudi Arabia avoided inspections through a small quantities protocol (SQP), which waives IAEA monitoring up to the point where fissile fuel is introduced into a reactor. The nuclear watchdog has been trying to convince the Saudi monarchy to now accept a full monitoring programme, but the Saudis have so far fended off that request.

“We are in conversation with them. They are interested in developing nuclear energy, for peaceful purposes of course,” IAEA chief Rafael Grossi said on Monday when asked about verification in Saudi Arabia.

The richest seam of reserves appear in maps to be at or very close to a site chosen for the planned new city of Neom, centrepiece of crown prince Mohammed bin Salman’s Vision 2030 project to wean the economy off oil.

China began prospecting work in 2017 across nine different areas identified as having prospective uranium deposits, and finished at the end of last year.

Beijing’’s interests are diplomatic and commercial. Helping Saudi Arabia with its nuclear programme strengthens ties with a key US ally, and China is always looking for fresh supplies of ore and buyers for its nuclear plants, said Hibbs.

The project report boasted of the extreme speed of the project, achieved in part by working through summer temperatures of over 50C (122F), leaving several on the team with heatstroke.

“According to international common practice, it takes five to eight years to discover and estimate inferred resources of a uranium-thorium deposit; this project only lasted two years,” the report said, referring to another radioactive element often found alongside uranium.

The exploration covered nine blocks over 30,000 square kilometres; there was often no road access to sites or network coverage.

“[Chinese] specialists stayed in the field for eight straight months with Saudi colleagues, working through weekends, holidays, and even spring festival break [the biggest holiday in the Chinese calendar].”

A string of other setbacks are detailed in the report. Near the border with Yemen, where a civil war is raging, armed men regularly disrupted drilling, and locals declared certain areas off limits to the exploration teams.

Flooding stranded vehicles and made drilling a challenge. In another area, soft terrain with complex strata – rock layers – meant that drilling was hard, holes often collapsed and work fell behind schedule.

The Geological Survey of Finland (GTK), internationally respected for their work in challenging terrain, supervised some of the exploration, bolstering the credibility of the findings.

Saudi authorities, CNNC, BRIUG and GTK did not respond to requests for comment.

The next step will likely be more intensive investigation in three areas identified as high priority, to confirm reserve levels, and the economics of extracting them. All sit inside an ancient geological formation called the Saudi Arabian shield, with rich reserves that match similar “shields” in Canada and Australia.

Analysts at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies (CNS) said there was no sign in satellite images that mining had yet begun in the areas identified as the most promising by the Chinese and Saudi scientists, but said that was unsurprising only a few months after the completion of the prospecting project.

“It’s obviously important to monitor those sites, as that would give us a clear indication that Saudi Arabia was moving forward with uranium mining,” said Ian Stewart, head of the CNS Washington office.

Recent US press reports, citing US officials, claimed that the Saudis have built a mill to process uranium ore into more refined “yellowcake”, the next step in the long cycle required to make fuel for reactors or for nuclear weapons, but Stewart said there was so far no evidence in the satellite imagery of such a facility.

“Given that the candidate sites are quite far from the location of the alleged uranium mill, we are forced to question reports that a mill exists at all,” he said. “We consider it unlikely that a mill would be built without a domestic source of ore. And we have to assume that the only sources of ore are the ones identified in these documents. If governments have evidence of a facility, they need to provide more details for us to conclude the reports are accurate.”

In a faxed response to questions from the Guardian, China’s ministry of foreign affairs said the country “actively promoted” the development of peaceful use of nuclear energy.

“China and Saudi Arabia signed an intergovernmental cooperation agreement on peaceful use of nuclear energy, and carried out cooperation in the peaceful use of nuclear energy under the framework.”


Bin Salman: Saudi holds 5% of global uranium reserves​



‘Our uranium is key to achieving energy transformation’: Saudi minister​

  • Prince Abdulaziz bin Salman made the comments at the Future Minerals Forum in Riyadh
  • Minister was bullish when it came to the use of nuclear power in the energy mix

Updated 12 January 2022

RIYADH: Saudi Arabia will not sacrifice energy security for the sake of energy transformation, a leading minister has warned as he talked up the importance of uranium to the Kingdom’s power plans.

Energy minister Prince Abdulaziz bin Salman made the comments at the Future Minerals Forum in Riyadh as he discussed how developing the Kingdom’s mining sector could help with economic and environmental transitions.

Prince Abdulaziz was bullish when it came to the use of nuclear power in the energy mix, telling delegates at the conference: “We have a huge amount of uranium resource, which we would like to exploit and put in the most transparent way.

“We will bring partners and we will be exporting and manufacturing and developing it and we will be commercially monetizing that resource.”

Referring to the drive to move the Kingdom away from its reliance on oil, he said: “We should not forfeit energy security for the sake of a publicity stunts — that transition needs to be well thought.

“Let’s not forfeit energy security for moving away from the classical concern of over-reliance in the Middle East when it comes to oil to different types of energy security challenges which has to do with availability of these minerals and the concentration of the ownerships of those minerals.”

The Future Minerals Forum is a special event bringing together ministers, organisations and mining leaders from more than 30 countries.

Hosted by the Saudi Ministry of Industry and Mineral Resources, is aimed at highlighting the role of mining in Saudi Vision 2030, after the government identified it as the third pillar of the Kingdom’s economy.


All the news in recent years only points towards one direction, namely that KSA seeks a dual capacity. Nuclear reactors for energy purposes and the weaponized nuclear option. Anything else makes no sense given the regional developments.

In any case one must be naive to think that KSA has no access to actual nuclear weapons given their key role in our (Pakistani) nuclear weapons program. If states like Libya and Iraq were not long from achieving such a goal AGES ago, a much, much more powerful and wealthy KSA (with domestic uranium moreover) should have no troubles.
 

MultaniGuy

BANNED
Feb 6, 2017
12,246
-6
11,792
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
Well you know western propaganda, don't you?
This is just a research reactor..HaHaHa!

As for the bomb.. "God knows better"..

"The only part of the cycle in KSA is yellow cake." ..that is publicly known..

It is also known that KSA makes its own nuclear reactors with South Korea..

View attachment 857363

https://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Korea-Saudi-Arabia-progress-with-SMART-collaborati


Saudi Arabia owns 50% of the IP

https://nucleus.iaea.org/sites/INPRO/df18/3.2-K.K.Kim-Korea.pdf

View attachment 857364

View attachment 857365


View attachment 857366

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/saudi-arabian-south-korean-smart-nuclear-reactor-in-adsw-2017.474688/
We are happy for Saudi Arabia. Mash'Allah.

But people in the West cannot tolerate development in a Muslim country.

They want to keep their leverage and enslavement over Muslim countries.
 

Genghis khan1

SENIOR MEMBER
Aug 22, 2015
5,676
0
7,536
Country
Pakistan
Location
United States
Arabs.. mainly the most important Arab countries.. like Egypt and Saudi Arabia both have nukes; First.. it is well documented that the soviet Union did send nukes to Egypt in 1973 after US-rael threatened with nukes.. second, many Arab countries and mainly KSA invested Hugely in the Pakistani nuclear program.. So a few bombs wouldn't really have been too much to ask..rumors say there are many already in deep ground in Saudi Arabia.. maybe as much as 25.. not confirmed and will never be.. be it true or false..
To much speculation.

Pakistani scientists under Special plan division have been visiting Saudi Arabia for more than a decades on long duty trips. So Saudis for sure are in. Gulfs most probably also are under the umbrella. Egypt, don’t think so.
 

The SC

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 13, 2012
30,360
21
32,725
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
Last edited:

Shawnee

SENIOR MEMBER
Jan 22, 2020
2,865
-1
4,451
Country
United States
Location
United Kingdom
True..

And Egypt had nukes from Russia since 1973..

Also:

High-enriched uranium traces found in Egypt: IAEA​

May 6, 2009

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nuclear-iaea-egypt-idUSTRE54543S20090506

There is hypothesis and there is evidence. You like hypothesis.

Nuclear umbrella does not mean having full control of nuclear trigger. It is a reassurance of some kind.

You can make yellow cake in a kitchen. Recipe is in YouTube for yellowcake.

Making cascades of 300 SWU centrifuges is more difficult than making a turbofan.
A country that can do that cascade owns its own turbofan and engines and metallurgy techniques.
 
Last edited:

The SC

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 13, 2012
30,360
21
32,725
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
There is hypothesis and there is evidence. You like hypothesis.

Nuclear umbrella does not mean having full control of nuclear trigger. It is a reassurance of some kind.

You can make yellow cake in a kitchen. Recipe is in YouTube for yellowcake.

Making cascades of 300 SWE centrifuges is more difficult than making a turbofan.
A country that can do that cascade owns its own turbofan and engines and metallurgy techniques.
Arabs have all that.. stop your childish comments..you take facts for hypothesis.. how dumb is that..

And if you want more facts..do your search on the net..because here you sound like a spy trying to extract information that is not public..
 

White privilege

FULL MEMBER
Feb 7, 2022
1,370
1
1,753
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Saudis need to diversify energy sources as oil depletes. Given the wealth they have, it is only logical to go nuclear, and Israel would not have a problem too since they are both undeclared allies.
 

Shawnee

SENIOR MEMBER
Jan 22, 2020
2,865
-1
4,451
Country
United States
Location
United Kingdom
Arabs have all that.. stop your childish comments..you take facts for hypothesis.. how dumb is that..

And if you want more facts..do your search on the net..because here you sound like a spy trying to extract information that is not public..

Which Muslim country makes turbofan?

Which Muslim country makes 300 SWU centrifuges?

Childish hypothesis will not save the day.
 
Last edited:

The SC

ELITE MEMBER
Feb 13, 2012
30,360
21
32,725
Country
Canada
Location
Canada
Which Muslim country makes turbofan?

Which Muslim country makes 300 SWE centrifuges?

Childish hypothesis will not save the day.
Many.. but I'm not telling you.. just do a deep search on the net and use your brain..
 

Corruptistan

FULL MEMBER
May 28, 2022
1,154
0
1,507
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Which Muslim country makes turbofan?

Which Muslim country makes 300 SWU centrifuges?

Childish hypothesis will not save the day.





KSA has likely been a nuclear-armed country since the day we (Pakistan) made our first nuclear tests.



It is more or less an open secret too.

Add the domestic Saudi Arabian ballistic missile program (with Chinese help), the Chinese nuclear liquid-fueled, single-stage nuclear medium-range ballistic missile DF-3A and the DF-21 that were exported to KSA over 35 years ago (!) and later updated (and kept alive since then)


+ uranium extraction within KSA (with Chinese assistance (apparently KSA holds 10% of all uranium reserves globally)


with no functioning nuclear power plants within KSA (publicly) and add the dots together.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-with-chinas-help-expands-its-nuclear-program-11596575671

KSA has had/have the money to build the bomb, all the geopolitical excuses in the world to pursue it politically and given the open secret and close Saudi Arabian involvement in the Pakistani nuclear program it is as I wrote more or less an open secret by large that KSA has access to nuclear warheads inside the country and if not inside the country with a very short notice it can get it. Most likely already the case.

Oh, I forgot the secret bases and tests sites in KSA and underground facilities or mountain facilities (not much different from the Iranian ones).

1640264755822.png


1640327335710.png



1640327376712.png


548232989.jpg


1657748628834.png


"Ancient" photo:

1640328345007.png


Lastly unlike Iran, KSA has never signed up to the international frameworks that seeks to ensure that atomic programs are not used to but weapons nor has it adopted rules to allow inspectors to inspect its sites to date.

Food for though, I am not 100% sure (nobody that does not know with certainty is) but if I had to guess whether KSA had or not, I would guess that they have based on all of the above and much more.
 
Last edited:

Shawnee

SENIOR MEMBER
Jan 22, 2020
2,865
-1
4,451
Country
United States
Location
United Kingdom




KSA has likely been a nuclear-armed country since the day we (Pakistan) made our first nuclear tests.



It is more or less an open secret too.

Add the domestic Saudi Arabian ballistic missile program (with Chinese help), the Chinese nuclear liquid-fueled, single-stage nuclear medium-range ballistic missile DF-3A and the DF-21 that were exported to KSA over 35 years ago (!) and later updated (and kept alive since then)


+ uranium extraction within KSA (with Chinese assistance (apparently KSA holds 10% of all uranium reserves globally)


with no functioning nuclear power plants within KSA (publicly) and add the dots together.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-with-chinas-help-expands-its-nuclear-program-11596575671

KSA has had/have the money to build the bomb, all the geopolitical excuses in the world to pursue it politically and given the open secret and close Saudi Arabian involvement in the Pakistani nuclear program it is as I wrote more or less an open secret by large that KSA has access to nuclear warheads inside the country and if not inside the country with a very short notice it can get it. Most likely already the case.

Oh, I forgot the secret bases and tests sites in KSA and underground facilities or mountain facilities (not much different from the Iranian ones).

1640264755822.png


1640327335710.png



1640327376712.png


548232989.jpg


View attachment 861468

"Ancient" photo:

1640328345007.png


Lastly unlike Iran, KSA has never signed up to the international frameworks that seeks to ensure that atomic programs are not used to but weapons nor has it adopted rules to allow inspectors to inspect its sites to date.

Food for though, I am not 100% sure (nobody that does not know with certainty is) but if I had to guess whether KSA had or not, I would guess that they have based on all of the above and much more.

Nice stuff. Thanks.

Drawback is the Brazilian turbofan is not yet in use in any product.

Missile program comes with testing which is inherently very known and public. You cannot progress in missiles without tests. This is not the case for nukes as bad.

Regarding nukes:

It is not deterrent if ennemies don’t know about it. Non deterrent nukes!

4-7 bombs will not bring deterrence especially on Pakistan soil.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)


Top Bottom