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SoulSpokesman

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@jamahir

Jamahir sb,

Learning about the Hindu concept of Karma - which is mentioned in those pics above - will give indication as to why Hindu-majority India has not seen a political, social and economic revolution.

Why has 97% Muslim Pakistan not seen a political, social and economic revolution? Of course it is possible Pak doesnt need one

Regards
 
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Are the Islamic socio-economic systems for marriage, property inheritance and compulsory charity ( Zakat ) taught in Indian schools ? :)

Indians have a 10x better understanding of Islam and 10x more empathy for Muslims than your average Western white man or woman


For example in Germany representation of Turks and Turkish Islam is as good as nil in the big mainstream entertainment productions
 

jamahir

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Please explain?
AFAIK the concept of Karma ( origin in Hinduism, seems to be ) is related to the cycle of births and rebirths where in the current life any material and practical difficulties, whether temporary or long-term, are considered to exist because that person had done some religiously-defined misdeed / wrong in a previous life. The background socio-economic structure for a Hindu is described in the Manusmriti book.

So according to a practicing Hindu of Upper Caste the travails and miseries of a Lower Caste person, say a Dalit, should not bring the Dalit person to protest because the Dalit had supposedly done something wrong in his previous life so he must just accept his current life of misery.

Hence the practicing Upper Caste Hindu will not want to see the Lower Caste person to raise the flag of revolution.

Now extend this "Should not protest" expectation to the whole of Hindu society and you will see why believers in Karma don't revolt. An example, just in ten year period of 1995 to 2015 more than 300,000 Indian farmers committed suicide because of socio-economic reasons ( inability to repay those high-interest loans ). Money is an artificial construct which should not be the reason for suicide. Probably in any other country the other farmers would have revolted. Sadly, Indian farmers didn't. But it has changed. The Delhi farmers' protests have seen participation from many Indian states.

Karma is present in Buddhism also....So your argumentation really doesnot hold water
Can you please differentiate that with my above observations ?

@jamahir

Jamahir sb,

Learning about the Hindu concept of Karma - which is mentioned in those pics above - will give indication as to why Hindu-majority India has not seen a political, social and economic revolution.

Why has 97% Muslim Pakistan not seen a political, social and economic revolution? Of course it is possible Pak doesnt need one

Regards
No, Pakistan too needs one. Urgently. For example, in the past there was what became called "The Rawalpindi Conspiracy". And this is a recent thread of mine on a leftist army officer called Major Ishaq.

Indians have a 10x better understanding of Islam and 10x more empathy for Muslims than your average Western white man or woman
Can you please give examples ?

For example in Germany representation of Turks and Turkish Islam is as good as nil in the big mainstream entertainment productions
I believe most of the Turks in Germany are not the best ambassadors of Islam. Some member on PDF some years ago had once spoken about presence of the Tebligh in Germany. What we call the Tablighi Jamaat elsewhere which origined in India. At best the TJ people are irritating.

every indian knows these things , as muslims of india know these things about hindus .
Then why do Hindu right-wingers not acknowledge the practical superiority of say Islamic marriage law when compared to those of other religions in India ? I quote a section from this thread OP of mine which is an article by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that better secured her socio-economic future in case of divorce :
Maneka Gandhi, minister of women and child development, recently gave a call for prenuptial agreements to be recognised in India. According to her, if the terms for division of property, guardianship of children and spousal support are settled prior to marriage, divorces will be less acrimonious and disputes could be resolved expeditiously.

In the discussions that followed, as to whether such a step will, in fact, safeguard the rights of women, there was no mention that this concept is already rooted in Islamic law of marriage since the 7th century. The nikahnama, an Islamic marriage contract is, in fact, a prenuptial agreement that outlines the rights and responsibilities of the parties and provides for conditions to be included for safeguarding a woman’s rights upon marriage.

One wonders why a reference to the Islamic law was not made either by the minister or other experts. Married Muslim women, we find, are often on a higher and more secure footing than their counterparts from other religions. In fact, as a Christian marrying a Muslim, I chose to marry under the Muslim personal law, even over the seemingly modern Special Marriage Act, 1954, to better secure my economic rights. My mehr was a house in my name and my nikahnama includes necessary clauses to safeguard my and my children’s rights. My husband’s family members were witness to this document, which is registered and enforceable by law.

When we examine marriage laws in their historic context, it is interesting to note that the universally accepted notion that marriages are contractual rather than sacramental originates in Muslim law, which was accepted by the French law only in the 1800s and incorporated into the English law in the 1850s and became part of codified Hindu law as late as 1955. Today it appears to be the most practical way of dealing with the institution of marriage. Treating marriage as a sacrament which binds the parties for life has resulted in some of the most discriminatory practices against women such as sati and denial of right to divorce and remarriage, even in the most adverse conditions.
Granted, UCC is the best for a common, secular advancement for all of Indian society but Hindu right-wingers ( like Maneka Gandhi ) should have acknowledged the nice things in Islam, some of these things being the model for progressive Western thought.
 
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SoulSpokesman

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@jamahir

Jamahir sb

No, Pakistan too needs one.

Good. So we have sorted out one part of the puzzle. Now we need to answer the other part.

Why has 97% Muslim Pakistan not seen a political, social and economic revolution?

Regards
 

SQ8

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I believe it is a great idea to teach people about other cultures directly rather than wait for twisted representation from media.
 

jamahir

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@jamahir

Jamahir sb

No, Pakistan too needs one.

Good. So we have sorted out one part of the puzzle. Now we need to answer the other part.

Why has 97% Muslim Pakistan not seen a political, social and economic revolution?

Regards
I don't know. Different dynamics in other progressive Muslim-majority societies of the past or present perhaps. For example, the Egypt of Nasser and Libya of Gaddafi.

Somethings didn't come about in Pakistan, like Faiz and his comrades who tried to bring about a leftist coup in 1951 but got arrested. If they had succeeded at top level change then that 97-percent-Muslim Pakistan you mention would have been living under a progressive dispensation now. Things like Aurat March would not have been necessary. Lal Masjid probably would have been evicted. Mashal Khan would not have been lynched. Malala would not have been shot. Etc etc.
 
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AFAIK the concept of Karma ( origin in Hinduism, seems to be ) is related to the cycle of births and rebirths where in the current life any material and practical difficulties, whether temporary or long-term, are considered to exist because that person had done some religiously-defined misdeed / wrong in a previous life. The background socio-economic structure for a Hindu is described in the Manusmriti book.

So according to a practicing Hindu of Upper Caste the travails and miseries of a Lower Caste person, say a Dalit, should not bring the Dalit person to protest because the Dalit had supposedly done something wrong in his previous life so he must just accept his current life of misery.

Hence the practicing Upper Caste Hindu will not want to see the Lower Caste person to raise the flag of revolution.

Now extend this "Should not protest" expectation to the whole of Hindu society and you will see why believers in Karma don't revolt. An example, just in ten year period of 1995 to 2015 more than 300,000 Indian farmers committed suicide because of socio-economic reasons ( inability to repay those high-interest loans ). Money is an artificial construct which should not be the reason for suicide. Probably in any other country the other farmers would have revolted. Sadly, Indian farmers didn't. But it has changed. The Delhi farmers' protests have seen participation from many Indian states.



Can you please differentiate that with my above observations ?



No, Pakistan too needs one. Urgently. For example, in the past there was what became called "The Rawalpindi Conspiracy". And this is a recent thread of mine on a leftist army officer called Major Ishaq.



Can you please give examples ?



I believe most of the Turks in Germany are not the best ambassadors of Islam. Some member on PDF some years ago had once spoken about presence of the Tebligh in Germany. What we call the Tablighi Jamaat elsewhere which origined in India. At best the TJ people are irritating.



Then why do Hindu right-wingers not acknowledge the practical superiority of say Islamic marriage law when compared to those of other religions in India ? I quote a section from this thread OP of mine which is an article by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that better secured her socio-economic future in case of divorce :

Granted, UCC is the best for a common, secular advancement for all of Indian society but Hindu right-wingers ( like Maneka Gandhi ) should have acknowledged the nice things in Islam, some of these things being the model for progressive Western thought.


Farmer's revolt not present is due to the crippling poverty of the farmers....even to revolt you need a basic level of relative prosperity...The farmers of Haryana and Punjab are rich..They could afford to take time off work for close to a year...and had supplies for over a year of blockading and protesting .....


I have the feeling the new farm laws will harm the relatively well to do farmers of Punjab and Haryana but uplift the impoverished farmers of Bihar and West Bengal

I will reply to the doctrinal points in 30 mins or so
 

GHALIB

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Then why do Hindu right-wingers not acknowledge the practical superiority of say Islamic marriage law when compared to those of other religions in India ? I quote a section from this thread OP of mine which is an article by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that better secured her socio-economic future in case of divorce :
i can only smile on obsession of our communists with things islam . they despise things indian . why indian marriage law maintained in indian courts is inferior to islamic marriage law ?

a christian women wrote an article about superiority of muslim marraiage law is that enough for proving theory in to practical ? muslim law may be superior in theory , can you explain why muslim women are left shelterless with half dozen children ? , why shahbano was not getting her right of maintenance inspite of superior islamic marriage laws ? why a women is thrown out of marriage on a simple email like imran khan did divorced his wife reham by email when she was not even with his husband ?
how a man has right to produce 40 children ?
 
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GHALIB

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I am Pakistani...and I just said that so clearly Pakistanis know. Geeta, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Vedas, Puranas...none are illegal in Pakistan. The Hindus who live here are free to read their holy books, worship, go to mandirs, etc. No one is outraged if Muslims study those texts for comparative religious studies.

The question u should be asking is... "Indians kab apni aankhein kholein ge?"

U r constantly fed this image of Pakistan/Pakistanis being some intolerant religious extremist(ISIS like) bunch...labelled as terrorists...shown to be hating Indians...saying Adaab with surma in the eyes...chewing paan...
...and whatever other stereotypes u guys have.

While in reality u will find Pakistanis far less hating and/or obsessed with India/Indians. Pakistani politics mainly revolves around actual issues like economy, development, infrastructure, etc. U won't see our news channels blasting morally bankrupt stuff like "Pakistan maray ga corona ki maut".

Sshh don't ask the real questions.
forget about teaching of ramayan or mahabharat in pakistani schools . that is equal to blasphemy in pakistan.
did you see BBC report what is taught about hindus in basic books of pakistan ?

 

Old School

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The chances are very high that ancient Hindustani mythological characters were in fact Afghanis who spoke either Parsian or derivatives of it. Sanskrit is also a sister language. It is also likely that Vedic philosophy including all of it's derivatives were born in ancient Afghanistan. The geo-political realities had later shifted Vedic philosophy to further east from Indus all the way to Gangetic plain where local tribal cultures used to be prevalent. The strong sponsorship of the colonial British Raj eventually solidified Hinduism with all it's mythologies in it's present form.
Giving the fact that Arabian peninsula has a strong mythological ancient history as well as Greek, Egyptian and Persian influences, the inclusion of Ramayana et al can not be overlooked. Past never dies no matter how faded it gets. Nothing is wrong in acknowledging one's own past. It makes one's only greater.
 

Drizzt

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Learning about the Hindu concept of Karma - which is mentioned in those pics above - will give indication as to why Hindu-majority India has not seen a political, social and economic revolution.
True, world should be educated about the difference between Buddhist concept of Karma and the perverted Hindu concept of Karma.
 

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